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“If you plant for a year, plant grain. If you plant for ten years, plant trees. If you plant for a 100 years, plant men. If you plant for eternity, plant the word. ” - Unknown?

Tevet 17 Music & Spirituality I love heavy metal music and as I have become more drawn to Torah and religion, I am wondering: Is it okay to listen to Black Sabbath? The Aish Rabbi Replies: Music is a transcendent power. Music is a deep expression of the soul, used to articulate things that can't be expressed in words. Because of its transcendent power, music can be used as a way of getting closer to God. For example, when offerings were brought at the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, a choir of Levites would accompany the service by singing the Psalms of King David. Music is so powerful, that it was even known to inspire prophecy. In the Bible (2-Kings 3:1-15), the prophet Elisha became angry and called for a musician. After which it says "and the hand of God came upon him." Rashi points out that the music calmed him down and enabled him to attain prophecy. The specific use of music to attain prophecy is mentioned in many places in the Bible -- e.g. 1-Samuel 10:5, 2-Kings 9:11, 1-Chronicles 25:1, among others. The Kabbalists explain that the Hebrew word for music "ZeMeR" is also related the word "to cut." Music helps banish extraneous thoughts and clear the mind. It cuts away the husks of impurity that envelop the soul and it allows a person to connect with the true Source of Good. When you listen to music, some of what the artist was feeling when he sang the song goes into you. The people who sing secular songs are often not of the most stable character nor particularly spiritual. Do you really want these people's influence to enter your psyche? To learn more about the deep spiritual power of music, read Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan's "Meditation and the Bible," and Rabbi S.R. Hirsch's commentary to Psalms 92 and 150. I also recommend Rabbi Tzvi Gluckin's book, "Knee Deep in the Funk: Understanding the connection between spirituality and music."

Oh, and since the fire is God's love, when does the fire burn out?... It never does. The fire is everlasting. We are either consumed by it and die or live in it forever.

Gerry, why speculate as to what he meant? If you do not want to ask him directly, read everything that he has said to come to an understanding of what he meant.

Gerry says: "But when the salt takes in the flavor of its surroundings, and the darkness darkens the light, that is not the ecumenism that the Lord countenances as I see it." (Emphasis mine). I respectfully submit that your analogy is flawed. It is impossible to "darken light". Wherever darkness exists, light drives away the darkness. I cannot think of a possible event that would cause darkness to pierce light; so why should it happen in the spiritual world? Darkness only increases as the light recedes; or as we hide from the light. Could stepping into the light increase clarity and vision for all parties?

Depressed: Who would not be over the treatment that we all to often give to people like him. However, I have not seen the signs of Major Depression in him.

Rather than being depressed he may feel relieved that, like you said, he can now be really honest about where he is. The good thing is the even though he may have given up on God, God has not given up on him.

I like that Mr. Bell is being honest by declaring where he is at. We can't chastise him for that, can we? I would rather a person be real than faking his spiritual stand.

Haaa, certainly none of us need that Tom!!!

I don't agree with the notion that Ryan Bell is in the throes of "major depression." That assessment rather smacks of trying to figure out an excuse as to why he made the decision to state that he doesn't think God exists. I think the "God" that many Christians worship really *doesn't* exist.

Jackson, I cannot use Daniel 9:27 to change the mind of any Hebrew Roots believer. They say that the "he" - the one who confirms a covenant with many for one week, and then causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease - is the Antichrist, NOT Christ. I tend to agree with them. The angel did tell Daniel that he had come to show him what would happen to his people "in the latter days" (Dan 10:14). 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (the desolator). If the early apostles believed that this prophecy applied to their time, and that Jesus death had brought the sacrificial system to an end, then why would James have told Paul that the believers in Jerusalem were "all zealous for the law" (Acts 21:20), AND he told Paul to go to the Temple and pay for the sacrifices for four men to complete their Nazarite vows (See Acts Cpt 21). All of this to PROVE that he was NOT teaching against the Temple, sacrifices, and Levite priesthood, or circumcision for Jews. It is worth noting that Paul had all his hair cut off several weeks before reaching Jerusalem because he had "taken a vow". The only vow that requires cutting off all ones hair, is the Nazarite Vow, which also requires ceremonial cleansing with sacrifices at the end of the vow period. (Acts 18:18). Seems like James at least didn't get the message that the sacrificial system was obsolete and should be abandoned by Jews. James does say that Gentile believers were NOT expected to observe these things. So James is maintaining a difference for Jews, and is teaching that Jews should continue all of "the law". I think it possible that Paul was being "a Jew" for the sake of Jews (I Cor 9:20). He had not been back to Jerusalem for some 14 years. I think it possible that Paul's visit to the Temple for sacrifices was a mistake. Like striking the rock twice?? It seems obvious that either there IS a difference between Jews and Gentile converts, concerning what behavior was expected by the LORD, OR Paul made a mistake and his actions left a confusing message. His visit caused a riot, and Paul was arrested and was never free again to travel preaching the gospel. The LORD allowed this to happen. I had never read carefully Acts cpt 21, until I began fellowshipping with Hebrew Roots believers. Blessings, Rachel Cory Prophecy Viewpiont

Yes - I think the words "who is in heaven", is a big clue. Yes - I believe that Jesus was telling Nicodemus WHO He is. “The Son of Man who is in heaven” In what sense was Jesus Christ “in heaven” when He spoke these words? He was not in a different physical location. We would have to interpret His statement in a spiritual sense. “I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me” (Jn 8:16, Jn. 16:32). The essence then, of being “in heaven” would be a perfect awareness of the Father’s presence, and the Father’s mind. Christ said that He was “in the bosom of the Father” (Jn. 1:18). “I am in the Father and the Father in me” (Jn. 14:10-11). The spirit of His Father indwelt Him fully and “without measure” (Jn 3:34). In this sense, He was “in heaven”. No other being - neither angel nor man, had ever ascended to this place of perfect oneness with God.

There is a little more to the studies. Fox is opinion "news" as most cable shows of that type are. You keep making the assumption that if you watch Fox that is all you watch.Not sure I even know anyone that watches Fox or any other cable show for their only news source. Like some have said mine generally comes locally or in my AOL news page. You and those that like to ridicule seem to know far more what is on Fox cable than those of us being ridiculed. Couldn't be that some are just mindlessly repeating what others are saying.

Stan: Only partly correct. That is how it began. In some ways it is still an independent group. With the move of its administrative headquarters to Colorado, it is devoting effort and energy to formalize both its relationship to the denomination and to the type of organization that it is to become. Under the leadership of Japhet De Olivira, it is developing formal documents that tie it to the denomination and require that all leaders be active SDAs in good standing with the denomination. In addition it is developing a more formalized structure that places denominational administrators (General Conference, North American Division and local Conference) on the governing boards of The One Project. These placements amount to more than tokenism. I have personally reviewed some of those. Further, when The One Project conducts a seminar, such as they recently did in New Zealand, the coordinate very closely with local denominational officials. IOW Stan, The One Project is becoming more closely tied to the denomination that we typically see in other independent organizations which often operate at arms length from the denomination. There is one area in which the denomination is having to deal with an aspect that is different. The leaders of The One Project are not elected by any group and they do not serve for a specific amount of time. In addition, The One Project is able to raise funding independently.

For reasons of safety, we need to be careful about posting in this forum information as to when we will not be home.

I'll be there. :-)

I have this hanging on my wall here in the house. It's not from the Bible, but I like it nonetheless...

“When wealth is lost, nothing is lost; when health is lost, something is lost; when character is lost, all is lost. ” - Billy Graham

“What you do may seem insignificant, but it's important that you do it.” - Mahatma Gandhi (submitted by LamaOsal)

“The best way to knock the chip off your neighbor's shoulder is to pat him on the back.” - Unknown

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. ” - Matthew 5:9 (Revised Standard Version) "How blessed are those who make peace! for they will be called sons of God. - Matthew 5:9 (Complete Jewish Bible)