Leaderboard

you might want to start carrying gift certificates for McDonald's or another local restaurant...they're pretty cheap, and no worry about someone shooting up with a BigMac...

Having had an opportunity to take a road day trip with my oldest son to go visit my ailing/aging parents yesterday. Time well spent.

Public humiliation teaching a lesson that lasts a long time.... Probably true. But what kind of lesson? And at what cost? Shaming a person, particularly a child or a teen may be effective to achieve some form of compliance or submission to authority. But is true willingness to do the right thing and a positve attitude about doing the right thing and respect for authority achieved? Based on my own experience and observation, leaves me with serious doubts that this will produce real positve results long term. In the short term, the embarrassment of humiliation can easily produce anger and resentment. Those emotions can indeed last a long time and seldom have long tem positve outcomes both in terms of relationships and behavior modification. It tends to produce fear of authority rather than respect and loyalty. And it does not produce internalization of respect for rules and treating others with respect or kindness or empathy IMHO. I think the end result is that people become stunted at an immature stage of moral and emotional development as a result.

A private lesson.

What I was attempting to say in #28 is that if a person wears denim to church is (for whatever reason) is personal option. In answer to the Topic, I would only wear jeans to church if I had no other alternative and then would probably wear a blouse and jacket. OTOH I do not judge or question if another wears denim. We all have to walk our own road.........................

The question in the OP is 'what would you wear?' Not 'what would you judge others for wearing?' Sometimes we do tend to hear "I prefer to do this" as "and you should too", when that is not what is intended. Perhaps, much more than what we wear, it is in our attitude to our brothers and sisters who choose differently where the rubber hits the road?

I thought a bully bullied because he himself feels powerless in a lot of situations. Seeing what his dad is doing, seems an awful lot like bullying, yet, they are praising him for his parenting skills.

Well, as you know, hubby works for a homeless shelter/drug and rehab center. So our response now is different than it was before he went to work there. Before if we had the money we would hand it over with a "God Bless You"; now we tell them where they can get a meal--for free, and help if they want it. But don't ever feel bad for giving money, especially if you felt led by God to do so. What they do with it is on them, not you.

I would and I do every week.

Crucial to this whole discussion is a right appreciation of what ordination by the laying on of hands really means. Ellen G. White wrote: “Both Paul and Barnabas had already received their commission from God Himself, and THE CEREMONY OF THE LAYING ON OF HANDS ADDED NO NEW GRACE OR VIRTUAL QUALIFICATION. It was an acknowledged form of designation to an appointed office and a recognition of one's authority in that office. By it the seal of the church was set upon the work of God.” Acts of the Apostles, p. 161 (emphasis supplied) Thus ordination is a DUTY and OBLIGATION of the Church, which it OWES to God in obedience to His leading. Therefore, refusing to ordain anyone whom God has called to any office of HIS choosing, is direct disobedience to God and defiance of His authority. And as Acts 5:32 states, the Holy Spirit is only given to those who obey God. Therefore it is a valid conclusion that no one who opposes women’s ordination can ever receive the Latter Rain outpouring of the Holy Spirit. They will not be a part of finishing the work. They will be counted among the five foolish virgins of Jesus’ parable, for they have not been walking with the Holy Spirit by allowing Him to convict them of all their sins—including their disregard of Galatians 3:28—and therefore do not have the ‘extra oil with their lamps.’ They will be among those who are ‘shaken out’ when the time of ‘the Shaking’ comes. Sinners will always try to contend that their cherished sins are unimportant. But is our position on women's ordination really unimportant? I have also noticed that among those who oppose women's ordination in our church, there is an accompanying covert movement to dismiss the Spirit of Prophecy as something to be disregarded. Most of them quote Sister White very seldom if at all when they discuss this subject. Although some still freely quote her on other subjects, this may change as the movement expands and manifests its true spirit more fully. Why do opponents of women's ordination avoid the Spirit of Prophecy? It is because there are statements like these, which are impossible for them to deal with: “It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to become pastors to the flock of God.” (6T p. 322; RH January 15, 1901) “There are women who should labor in the gospel ministry. In many respects they would do more good than the ministers who neglect to visit the flock of God.”—Evangelism 472; Manuscript 43a, 1898.

That's what I'm up to today.

When doing PC work I have background music of God-praise coming out of my speakers. I use my IE browser for the URL because it seems to automaticly connect with Windows Media Player. Then I minimise the player and adjust the sound level. I close down the browser because it is not necessarily needed. I jump around to other browsers or just keep up the on-going organisation of folders and files I've been doing. http://www.hymnsandfavorites.com/haf.asx

Did your know that the Federal election may place a Seventh-day Adventist in the White House--No, not Dr. Ben Carson? The person I am thinking about is a current Vice President of Goldman Sachs who has taken a leave of absence to participate in the electoral process. This person is a female. She is married to Presidential Candidate, Ted Cruz. See: http://atoday.org/first-adventist-in-the-white-house-might-be-a-woman.html

In the discussion of issues related to the role of women in pastoral care and their ordination, much has been said about church doctrines, teachings, policies and more. Dr. Calvin B. Rock published a seminal article on this in the November 28, 1991 edition of the Adventist Review, page 20. You may find that article at the following URL. http://docs.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH19911128-V168-48__C.pdf#view=fit Using a mixture of my words and those of Dr. Rock, I will summarize his thinking as follows: 1) Doctrines: These are authoritative theological beliefs that have been voted in a formal General Conference session and may only be changed by that process. Some doctrines are tests of fellowship. 2)Standards are rules that guide us in the application of doctrines. 3) Teachings have never been so voted but are generally believed. They are not tests of fellowship. Two examples are vegetarianism and membership in secret organizations. 4) Policies consist of operating rules. General Conference policy is voted at a General Conference and is expected to apply world wide. Division policy adjusts and/or modifies GC policy to apply in the specific area of the Division. Institutional policy guides schools, hospitals, etc. 5) Guidelines suggest how policies should be applied. If you look closely at this, you will note that Divisions may adjust or modify GC policy. In the same sense, so also may Unions and local Conferences, although Dr. Rock did not directly say so. As my statements above are a mixture of Dr. Rock's words and mine which was done to sum up what he said, it would be well for all to go to the actual article and read it as Dr. Rock wrote it.

Dr. Glenn Reynolds passed to his rest on February 22, 2015. He was a renowned physician and activist for the disabled. He had had polio in his youth but continued to practice medicine and conduct his activities from a wheelchair. He was honored by the American Medical Association as physician of the year. He served on the presidential commission for the disabled.

Ellen White states, "The history of Job had shown that suffering is inflicted by Satan, and is overruled by God for purposes of mercy." (The Desire of Ages, p. 471) She does not say what that purpose was and therefore we must study the book of Job to find that purpose.

Oh my! We are getting soft aren't we. How many generations of farm kids got up approx that early to milk cows and do other chores before they went to school. Since the kid most likely knew he was going to be getting up early, he probably should put away the smartphones and video games and get to bed early. I am not sure that soup kitchens and animal shelters should be used for punishment. If I was a lost dog, I don't think I would want an angry kid looking after me especially with a history of mistreating those less able. At least this kid has a Dad who is determined to help his son grow up right. Some kids are not so fortunate and end up in "boot camp" to try and straighten them out.

"Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone, Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die, One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie."---J.R.R. Tolkien Sounds like this family needs to homeschool, Odessa's weird.

Bingo! This is why God allowed Satan to move against Job.....

this might sound odd, but I really think Facebook has been a blessing to me.. I've found cousins I've never met and friends I've not seen for nearly 50 years... and met complete strangers from all over the world who are now fast friends!

I think it would be very interesting to have an Adventist 1st Lady in the White House. She'd probably be a lot better than some, and no worse than others..

In the past I did what Deb suggested and bought McDonalds gift certificates which I put inside a Steps to Christ or another book with the top sticking out so they can see that there is something inside. Quite frankly I have no idea if they read the book, or used the gift certificate. It was/is my hope that the beggar really needed the food: Spiritual and physical. I said "in the past" because I don't recall seeing someone working the streets for several years.

Secondly, for more than 20 years I travelled extensively for business ... most of the time alone. I can give you hundreds of accounts of insults I encountered as a "white" woman wanting to buy gas from what turned out to be a black owned service station ,,,,,,, or attempting to locate where Walmart's garden center kept their garden-hoes when I asked a could of black employees where they were located. The list goes on and on ..... In all cases I did the graceful thing and just walked away thanking them for their information. Your race suffered many atrocities ... so did my race, Jews and Scotch-Irish. Personally I worked 50-70 hours a week in difficult situations to support my children, but didn't suffer what my ancestors suffered. How about you????? At the same time my lady, I employed close to 500 people and hired many black people ... invited many who lived in the area to my home etc. It's not that I am so great, or do anything that many others have done ... nor do I expect anything from it ... what I do expect is for others to put away their racism (because it exist on both sides) and learn to deal with issues based upon the facts. Radical emotions solve nothing. For the record, you can respond as much as you want but this is my last word on the subject. The title of this thread is SDA in White House. Blessings

If you can't do the "time", don't do the crime. Bullying is a situation that for many victims lasts a very long time, and being publicly humiliated can also teach a lesson that lasts for a long time. Dad showed the kid how to defend himself but also taught him not to abuse it. Junior apparently missed that part of the lecture. Go Dad! However, it is alleged that Dad was bullying. So, what more gentle and kind lesson should have Dad given this son?

our Sabbath sermon yesterday was on Christian bigotry. How we as Christians are vulnerable in our fallen nature to judge who is saved and who is not by how well those around us are performing according to our criteria of righteousness. And broken people generally fail our evaluation. and how we treat the saved differently. This is truly altogether too common. And it is a form of bigotry that is very damaging to the struggling who find church is not a safe place. It was a timely sermon to this thread.

I understand it as one of teaching about making choices and respecting choices even if you don't like them. This is in contrast with "external control psychology" of trying to make others do what we want them to do. The Satan accused God of forcing out loyalty from Job due to the blessings. So God choose to stop the blessings and to place Job in a place where he would have every reason in the world to choose to stop being faithful to God. Job continued to be faithful to God and respected God's choice. He hated God's choice, he wondered why God was choosing to treat him this way, but he respected God's choice and he continued to choose to be faithful. Eliphaz is our typical Augustinian/Calvinistic Fordite evangelical, telling Job about how depraved mankind is. Job's problems come because he must be trusting in his own works instead of the grace of God. If we trust in God's grace God has to respond by blessing us. If we don't trust in God's grace then we force God to pour out his wrath upon us that we disserve. Zophar is our typical conservative Adventist, where God has a law and Job must be breaking God's law and needs to trust and obey. That if he is faithful to God's law that God is obligated to bless him. Since he is not keeping God's law God is obligated to punish him. Bildad does not offer solutions like Eliphaz and Zophar, but frustrated he is saying "You're doing something wrong and that is forcing God not to bless you. If you were doing right then God is obligated to bless you. So stop saying that God's choosing to do this to you and see what you can do to make God bless you again. Elihu is somewhat like Bildad, not really having an answer but upset that the other 3 could not force Job to realize that he's in the wrong and trying to make Job realize that he must be doing something to make God curse him instead of doing something to make God bless him. God in the whirlwind reminds them of his power and freedom and choices. Then he talks about the Leviathan. The Leviathan was the ancient's world picture of the devil (today we have the horns and pitchfork, they saw him as a 7 headed sea monster). God asks if mere force would force the Leviathan (the devil) into obedience and submission. In the ancient myths there tends to be a god who fights the sea monster, the dragon, the leviathan and gains the victory. Baal, Thor, St. George and the dragon, Beowulf, etc. They use force to overcome the leviathan. Yahweh is different. He does not need to have the physical challenge these others had. He could use power over Satan as easily as throwing a pebble to the ground. But instead of using force, God overcomes the leviathan and brings life through using love and his glory and beauty. The leviathan dies of heart failure when he sees just how loving and beautiful Yahweh really is and this glory scares him to death. And thus yes, God did choose to treat Job this way but that Job and God were using this to overcome the leviathan and that while God's method will allow suffering that it is a better method than mere force and that God will make up for what we have lost.

When my kids were little we did "Resurrection Eggs", they come in an egg carton and each egg contains something from Passion Week. We would open one or two each day starting Palm Sunday, we would have a short devotional about what Jesus did that day.

We don't look down on anyone, I'm just saying how we felt when we made the collective decision as a group. Sometimes people visit in suits and that's fine although we do find that people from the local community never dress up and it's them we are trying to attract.

On the flip side,do those that wear jeans and a t-shirt look down on those that choose not to dress in what they see as inappropriate? Does wearing a suit indicate to you that those that do are without problems? What is pretentious about wearing something better than t-shirt and jeans if you have such clothing and most of us do? Is your "christian attitude" superior to those that wear what they consider more appropriate for church?

sometimes it's gets to be annoying when I say I prefer to dress up for church - because automatically people who *don't* like to do it start in on how God doesn't care what we wear, blah, blah, blah - along with some implied notion that I must be condemning of those who come to church wearing a barrel and suspenders. Wear what what you think is appropriate!!!

Weekends! Look forward to everyone of them!!!

Being able to go with my wife to another SDA church an hour's travel away without skipping any church responsibilities.

Thank you very much for starting this! This last week was awesome for me, at the store. I love when I can chat with people who are excited about faith and the Bible. Recently I have had occasion to speak to a few excited non-Adventists and my heart was so lifted. OTOH, God has worked beyond expectation for those for whom we have prayed. Each happy ending for them is one for me, too. Breath and strength is always a good thing. This week I have had both in better abundance than I have had in weeks, maybe months. AND... The daffodils are blooming!

I'm blessed today for the opportunity of education. While stressful and intense at the moment (writing Masters thesis), I'm immensely blessed for the opportunity to read, learn, and share with others.

Sadly, I too have seen this in too many churches. We find reasons to lock ourselves in the church rather than taking Jesus to the streets. I'm not saying this as a rebuke - I'm guilty of it as well.

I must admit that I am apparently unconscious as to observing what others are wearing in church. This morning I was in a church that I have spoke in several times and I happen to notice that the girl who led the singing was wearing jeans. I then though about it and realized that this beautiful, sweet young lady always wore the blue jeans ... clean and pressed. I know a bit about her family and feel sure that they do the best they can and dress their children accordingly. The thing that struck me most was looking around and seeing quite a bit of denim; had it not been for this thread I would probably never have given it a thought. Just sayin' The question of would you....................? If I had to go into debt to wear something else then, yes, I would wear denim.

I am reminded of a story about a mother and her young son. I can't remember exactly how the story goes, but the sum of it is that the mother often took walks with her son to the local park while she was dressed in her "prettiest" clothes. The clothes she wore were the Halloween costume she wore the previous year--a Disney princess outfit. She felt ridiculous, but proud because these were the clothes her son chose for her to wear. He thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world and that she looked her prettiest when she wore the princess outfit. The son would wear his costume as well because it made him feel dressed up. The neighbors and passers-by would stare at the two of them walking to the park, but the mother didn't care. She was happy that she was helping her son to be happy. She dressed for the one most important to her, not for the people who criticized and judged her because she was inappropriately dressed in their opinions. What apparel does God want His sons and daughters to wear on their special day together? It is my personal opinion that God doesn't really care what Christians wear on the outside so long as it's modest, weather-appropriate, non-constricting of our physical bodies, and does not cause a distraction to other believers.

I was a congregational pstor and about to baptize a woman. Several of the female members to my church met with me and asked me to talk with her about he dress that she wore to church. It did not meet their standards. I asked them is they knew that the dress she wore to church was the only dress that she owned--it was the best that she had. Their mouths dropped open. When one recovered, she looked at the others and said: We are going to take her shopping. She is going to have more than one dress to wear.

Pretty sure that a seamless robe wasn't a posh garment. One simple enough not to require a tailor, more like. I don't think Jesus used his style of dress to impress: indeed, the word says he 'had no beauty that people would desire him'.

The pastor knows that some people will be using their smart phones, and tablets, to check their e-mail and to play games. So, he simply wants to change the dynamic. Now they sit there, listening to the sermon, with smart phone at the ready to text him a question.

As I said before... Administrative Note: For those who seem unable to carry on any conversation without turning it into a political poo flinging battle, I would invite you to take all your political venom and vitriolic rhetoric over to the one place dedicated to that stuff, the Political forum and just knock yourself out. Political commentary will be deleted or moved elsewhere than here.

One point that I would like to make is that I feel this is an area where a church can have more than just one service and more than just one style of service. We have a standard format for the 10am Sabbath service, yet meetings that focus on youth and charasmatic renewal are relevant to the above post. There is a church in Canada called "The meetinghouse". They stream their meetings online, often its Jeans and T Shirt on the platform, at the begining of the meeting the Pastor puts his mobile phone no on the data projector and if you have a question on the sermon you are asked to SMS it whilst the sermon is underway and at the end of the meeting he reviews the questions and dicusses them with the audience. Its a great format for a church meeting and something many of our own churches could no doubt benefit from if we were prepared to give it a try.

http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story2397-adventist-church-adopts-stance-on-vaccines

I envy all of you that have time to watch the news. I stay so busy I don't even have time to watch the weather forcast. If I don't check my weather ap on the Ipad, I won't even know when a storm is coming. Someday I will cherish a little couch time, with the socks off, watching FOXNews, MSNBC, Al Jazerra English or... CNN. When I see people arguing over which news source is best it reminds me of people arguing about which genre of music is best. Rock 'N Roll is evil. Country is OK. Jazz is of the devil. Gospel is wonderful but only if it doesn't have drums.

I could think of some responses to make to the above, but I will refrain from doing so.