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ooooo how about ORANGE!

I guess i simplify it in the words of Paul, "i am determined to know nothing among you but Jesus Christ and Him crucified", and "from henceforth i will know no man after the flesh. It takes too much time and energy to seek to unravel any particular church plight because of a basic lack of love and a predominance of self righteousness. These are common in every circle of every kind when Jesus is not the center, whether it is a church, a mosque, or synagogue or a civic club or a volunteer organization, or an interdenominational prayer group. This is the bread of human devising, the leaven of the pharisees we are warned about already. Every action we make every word we speak is seed sown, and only Jesus can break up our ground, expel the bad seeds, and weed out the bad plants in our hearts, or anyone else's. The Spirit nourishes every good seed sown by the working of the grace and love of God in someones heart, no matter how heinous the story, or grievous the trauma. Thank-you for clarifying the weighty experience you had. It sounds like it was a real burden to you. I can trust Jesus to sort it all out for you. The Spirit only can sort this out in others. "Not by power nor by might but by my Spirit."

Ii don't know about spotting people and defining them by your judgement of them. this sounds like human bias and judgement and criticism. And then calling this disposition a calling of God... i just don't know. there is no person alive that does not have a fallen nature and a struggle with that nature. it is not a person here or a person there. And if we are hooked by our own thinking of what we believe is a particular need... "through our lens", it may not be the particular need or issue God is working with them on at all. We cannot depend on our lens, we do not see as God sees. someone may seem gay to us, but may not be gay, someone may seem a phoney bit may not be a phoney. A person that is lying may be mentally or emotionally disrupted in any countless number of ways, and you do not know the way God is speaking to them and lifting them to higher ground. And if they are what we perceive we are still not qualified to know what they need at the moment. But our need is at all times to walk in humility of mind towards all. We are called to not be bigots, and not see us and them, and not feel we are and they are not right with God. The truth is we are all wretched poor miserable and blind. And Jesus has been given to us and to everyone around us just the same. we are all equally in need at all times. Our salvation is not of ourselves. We are to show the same love and mercy and grace to the most responsible spiritual teacher as to the most ragged homeless desperado, because both need it. We need to stand in Christ alone and not in ourselves.

I'm sure I'm one of the few here who actually knew Elder F. D. Nichol. (Although I can't claim he actually knew me personally.) When I was an earliteen my family lived in Takoma Park, Maryland, about a mile from the General Conference headquarters. My parents, both being alumni of Pacific Union College, used to go the PUC alumni gatherings there. It turned out that my dad was elected president of the PUC alumni chapter, and Elder F. D. Nichol was the outgoing president of the group who turned over the gavel to my dad at one of the meetings. Since Elder Nichol was editor of the Review at the time, and the Review and Herald Publishing Assn. office was adjacent to the General Conference office building, the PUC chapter meetings were often held on the lawn of the Review and Herald building. Elder Nichol was very clever in his speech, and I recall he said some very complimentary and clever things in his speech when introducing my dad. That always stayed with me.

Hello, I thought it would be fun to share my imagination of what the Great Controversy is like from the point of view of the angels. I have been blessed while writing down my ideas in story format so hopefully someone else will be blessed by reading them. The ideas are derived from several sources including the Bible, Ellen White and other authors, but there are no direct quotes, so hopefully this isn't breaking the forum's rule of no quoting. Here goes the beginning of the story... At an unfathomable point in history, the beginning of time, God, His Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit were already in existence. Ever since our creation, we have been actively studying the Godhead’s character and government through the close observation of Their personalities and Their work. We are free to spend as much time as we like exploring Their universe both physically and conceptually. An enigma that has become of special interest to us is how the Godhead came into existence. We have devoted many hours, possibly even years, to trying to figure out this mystery, but as much as we have tried, we have yet to succeed. One angel in particular has been more intensely involved in solving this puzzle than the rest of us. This angel was graciously granted many special talents and a very bright mind by God, so he could fill the coveted position of 2nd in command under Him. The high responsibility of demonstrating the Godhead’s character and method of governance to the entire living universe comes with this prestigious position; therefore we all call him Lucifer, which means to be a light-bearer. As the King’s general, Lucifer’s close connection with the Godhead gives him the distinct advantage of knowing inside information before the rest of us. We love to pick his brain for new ideas and suggestions of subsequent adventures, as well as frequently consult with him about our various discoveries throughout the universe. He always converses politely with us as we express our thoughts about recent explorations and lay out plans for future trips. Understandably, our cognizance of the strange yet increasingly significant phenomenon which was beginning to unfold before our very eyes was minimal. It all began hidden deep in the heart of our commanding general, whom we have grown to love and respect. Not only do we trust him as our confidante, but we sing in the choir, of which he is a masterful director. His beautiful voice and unique ability to harmonize with himself repeatedly captures our attention. But as time goes on the once imperceptible changes in Lucifer’s demeanor progressively become more apparent. As Lucifer’s destructive mentality slips into our awareness through his telltale body language and behavior we slowly begin realizing the seriousness of his contrary thought patterns toward God and His government. Our contemplations on the origins of God are eventually forgotten and replaced with uncertainty, unfamiliarity, and crazy emotions which all send shivers through up and down our spines. In an attempt to grasp this elusive mystery that is stirring our thoughts, we head to throne room of heaven to see what pertinent information we can gather. As we enter the heavenly throne room we are compelled to stand in reverent awe. We are standing in a room that looks more like a well-tended garden than the fanciest space inside the four walls of the most exquisite earthly palace. Its boundaries are invisible in the sense that it does not appear to have what earthlings would call walls or a ceiling. Everything around us is alive and sparkling with color, from the glassy floor beneath our feet and the emerald rainbow surrounding God’s throne to the crystal clear water seamlessly flowing under the trunks of the Tree of Life standing on either side of the river, and to the Tree of Life itself with its gorgeous fruit and vibrant green leaves. This indescribably beautiful scenery combined with the perfectly holy atmosphere always brings peace to our searching hearts and satisfaction to our hungry eyes. While all of our sensory channels are busily processing the aura of supreme majesty created by the soothing flood of light emanating from the throne of God, we find ourselves slowly walking toward the four living creatures who are continually glorifying God through their perfect obedience, trust, and reverence. The four living creatures, who are covered with eyes on their front and back sides and each having six wings, are undoubtedly aware of our growing concern for Lucifer, yet they are fully relying on God to take care of them in spite of their feelings. We have always felt completely natural trusting God implicitly with our entire beings, but for some unknown reason to us, we find ourselves amazed at the feeling of peace coming from the four living creatures and even from God Himself. The 24 beings, known as the elders, are here as representatives from other places in our grand universe, as we had already surmised based on their occupancy of the thrones closely surrounding God’s throne. Their faces lit with love and joy shine through the peaceful atmosphere around them while their complete serenity becomes almost as tangible as their presence. Everything and everyone seem to be saying through their mere existence that God is holy, pure, and righteous. While we are in the presence of God and all those who are worshiping Him at His throne, the bubbling confusion and agitation in our hearts temporarily leaves us alone. But when Lucifer walks in and everything changes instantaneously. His usual grand entrance distracts our thoughts so the uncomfortable feelings we were harboring before coming to God’s throne room quickly rush back to our conscious awareness. We perceive, by the way he holds himself while he tries to catch our eye contact upon entrance, that he is jealous of Jesus and wants more from the Godhead than just to be second in command. Our awe for him and respect for his authority used to make us want to bow down at his feet and fulfill his every wish, but recently his apparent effort to keep our attention focused on himself through the use of his remarkable God-given gifts of singing and directing the heavenly choir have been annoying us. Aggravatingly, we find our thoughts effortlessly switching from their negative trend into amazement for his talents when he uses that irritating ability of hitting just the right note at just the right moment. A tingling sensation moves down our spines and we become speechless as we are immediately carried off in the moment, almost to the point of forgetting where we are standing, until an impressive event interrupts our reverie. There is more to the story, but since it is still a work in progress I will post a little bit of it at a time. Enjoy!

btw ...There are other eyes in mainline Christianity, that have been in the news for quite a few years now ,that have come to understand the scriptures differently and more may come. We have a movement in Sunday Churches to rethink a lot of traditional understandings. Hell is getting a closer look by a lot of movements. Weighing the Character of God in light of a different revelation. Rob Bell did that in the book 'LOVE WINS' in taking a way hell of everlasting punishment comes up with Universalism. A few small Sunday Churches accepting the 7th Day Sabbath. What im saying is that people are looking deeper in all kinds of things! the Bible can bear the scrutiny.on all topics. God works with sincere seekers wherever they land. Even some don't walk away they just keep studying. It is ongoing for some personality types. God Bless You LifeHiscost. I love hearing what you have to say on this.

How about getting rid of the "Quote" button in this Forum??

Most phonies can see themselves in the mirror. The vast majority I know are struggling and look to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. We need to encourage all.

Truth be told, Gail... at at some point after that the teachable moment has passed I will put the train back on the tracks.

Well, that is one way to derail a thread...

" I've implied that the spirit of distrust that leads you to suspect that any and every police confrontation should be videotaped due to potential of abuse ... doesn't reflect such spirit." The are jurisdictions across the country that are introducing body cams. This is an example of being able to have appreciation for the work of police and holding them accountable. They are not mutually exclusive. "It's like bugging your wife every time she's out of the door because there are some women out there who cheat." Not a very good analogy. I know my wife, I live with her and believe as a result of experience that she is honest and true to her vows. I am careful with women I don't know. As a pastor I take appropriate measures to keep the boundaries clear because of the women who cheat. There are police that I know and trust. The officer who may stop me has the potential to abuse his power and therefore I will record him. ' I have many cop friends' This explains a lot about your responses. "one of them admitted that he has innate aversion to black people that comes not as a conscious decision, but as a base instinct because of the things he has to deal with on daily bases. He consciously fights it, and has to constantly remind himself that such is not the case for all blacks, but instincts do form... and these can take over in a situation where instincts do take over." White people may find this understandable. Most black people would find this reprehensible. This disclosure has an impact on your continuum of force argument. One's judgement about the nature and disposition of the "suspect" dictates your use of force. For your friend there would be different attitude and perhaps treatment of a black teen than a white teen. This is the essence of the problem "??? I think that's a rather broad statement to make, and I think it's actually a result of misunderstanding what a job of a cop is." It is definitely a broad statement but that does not make it untrue. Cities pay millions of dollars in damages but seldom is a cop charged or dismissed as a result of the crimes. The lack of accountability is because of old fashioned corruption. I think most people understand what a cops job is. "and filming it doesn't solve the problem at all, especially since you are not there most of the time when police deals with crime. You can document the arrest, but you filming provides distorted context of what may be going on, and may feed into "police hate black people" type of mentality that will only drive black anger and see their violence against police and "the man" to be a form of a justified war." I think you are incorrect in your assumptions and assertions. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2015/0501/Study-shows-that-with-police-body-cameras-everyone-behaves-better-video “They found that the officers wearing the cameras had 87.5 percent fewer incidents of use of force and 59 percent fewer complaints than the officers not wearing the cameras,” the report states. “One of the important findings of the study was the impact BWCs might have on the self-awareness of officers and citizens alike. When police officers are acutely aware that their behavior is being monitored (because they turn on the cameras), and when officers tell citizens that the cameras are recording their behavior, everyone behaves better. The results of this study are highly suggestive that this increase in self-awareness contributes to more positive outcomes in police-citizen interaction.” "There are plentiful ways to educate youth other than expect them to come to church and be bored to death with a lecture." Perhaps you need to go to another church.

One thing that seems to be important to me is to allow non-believers to be just that rather than coercing them, although when love is exercised with strong persuasion it can appear as coercion. Free will is given to all, however some give that gift away by denying it to others. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap....Galatians 6 11So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.....Isaiah 55 God is Love! Jesus saves!

Sometimes I answer a single post without paying attention to which forum I'm on. Sorry about that. Those who think they can think without having had a predecessor think that same thought before them, I think are sadly saddled with deficient thoughts and I think will someday have second thoughts about their thoughtlessness. God is Love! Jesus saves! .

Just doing more testing... IMG_2002.m4v

Miriam & Kenneth wood, HIS INITIALS WERE F.D.N: A LIFE STORY OF ELDER F.D. NICHOL. Review & Herald, 1967, 256 pages. Probably, many of our younger members will have no knowledge of who F.D. Nichol was and of the place that he held in the SDA denomination. He wrote some 19 books. He served for decades on the editorial staff of the REVIEW. The American Medical Association purchased thousands, for distribution, copies of an article that he wrote exposing a fraudulent cancer cure. His book, THE MIDNIGHT CRY, set the historical standard, in its time, for the history of the Millerite movement. In his time, he probably did more than anyone else to positively impact on the SDA church than anyone had previously accomplished, outside of the early leaders in the SDA church. In recent times, his works have been replaced by more current works by historians and others. Yet, I would be forced to call him a "slave driver" in regard to expectations that he placed upon the people whom he supervised. Yet, they loved and supported him. If you have a chance,(probably not) to obtain this ancient book, do so and read it.

please remember, in original thoughts there is no quoting. If you want to quote, and everyone is more than welcome too, please do it in Townhall or another forum on here. That is just how it is.

​Yes!

Making judgments on others is so easy to do, isn't it? Thanks for the reminder!

A friend and I once discussed Socrates in this light. He was executed for saying that there was one God and He was unlike humans in that he did not do the evil things they did. He refused to stop teaching this. Just wonder.

​I am such a sinner.. btw ..as i've said before- "We don't get a list of things when we become Christians. We get a Person! JESUS." but it wouldn't hurt to get a list of things! like the quote above Which happens when you get JESUS! I need more!

​That's good, Laz. We need to expose the wrong, whether on the part of the police making the arrest or the part of the suspect. BTW, I just saw the pictures of the six policemen who were indicted on the death of Freddie Gray. Three look black and the other three look white.

I am very satisfied that these retired leaders now are expressing their honest view on this subject. As they say, it has now been under investigation for 40 years and in all of those years no sincere Bible student has found an objection to the ordination of women in Scripture. What is sad is that these leaders have kept silent for so many years. Finally when they are retired and have no need of the support or votes from our members in Catholic or pagan dominated countries, do they follow their conscience and give their honest opinion before facing the final judgment. We must be thankful the Lord has given them this opportunity now before a vote is called for at this GC session to expres their concern. How many more leaders are still not able to expres their honest views before they retire because they are dependent on the votes from the Catholic and Pagan dominated parts of the world in order to remain in office?

I think most of the comments about this statement have been taken the wrong way entirely. Adventists are a family so we want to know that our family in Nepal are safe. If I am talking to a Christian from another denomination I would ask, "are all your members ok?" Similarly when there is trouble in, for example the recent killings in Kenya, I ask Kenyan friends,"are your family safe?" It is not that they, or Adventists, are better than the others but simply a need to know that 'family' are safe.

No! God is Love! Jesus saves!

And now our story continues in a new territory where we have the privilege of interacting in great detail with God’s new creatures, humankind and planet earth. As Jesus and Gabriel step back from the edge of our beloved home, which the earthlings refer to as heaven, we notice those same looks on their faces we had seen earlier but with which we could not relate. Even now, we cannot describe the full set of emotions their expressions portray, but we are beginning to see a tiny picture of what had just transpired. Out of our shock and amazement rise the questions: “What did God just command Gabriel to do with Lucifer and his followers? Where are they going to end up?” We feel a slight sense of fear as these questions race through our minds. Can we still openly ask God about what is happening? Can we still trust Him to love us even if we question His government? We know deep down in our hearts that God loves us and everything in His universe with an intense love that is evident in every move He makes. So why are we afraid? We still do not completely understand our emotions, especially why we are afraid. We heard about this phenomenon, known to our human friends as sin, in some of the Godhead’s discussions in the throne room, but were unable to comprehend what they were talking about at the time. We sense that even God is challenged when He tries to wrap His mind around this new mystery which entails a supernatural ability to trick the mind into believing that very unnatural ideas and behaviors are in fact very normal. Unfortunately, these tricks played on the mind are often so subtle that they can be very difficult to detect before they turn into a deceived reality. From now on we will experience a different side of our Godhead’s character that we had never witnessed before. Through a compilation of many conversations with the Godhead we have gained a great source of comfort that we did not know we needed at the time, but now we are gratefully letting settle into our confused hearts. An impeccable solution to this problem of sin had already been established by God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit way before any other beings but Themselves existed! They understood that the risk of endowing us with freedom, the greatest gift that can be given to the subjects of a sovereign God, would be immense; even to the point of eternally losing Jesus and all His creatures including us. We are just now beginning to realize how serious this war is and the extent to which the Godhead is willing to go to bring it to an incontestable end. We desperately want our human friends to have the chance to talk to God face to face just like we have had the honor and privilege of doing since our inception. With the help of the Holy Spirit, we must help our human friends discern the truth about the Godhead and learn to love Him through His written word, His prophets and His creation. This can be very tricky at times because Lucifer, now known as Satan, uses every device in his increasingly destructive imagination to discredit everything God says and does and will sometimes even goes as far as twisting our Savior’s words and deeds into something that makes Him appear to be the terrible monster. In light of our new understanding of the huge risk that God is taking on the behalf of all of us, we now commit all of our physical and mental strength to showing our human friends how much we want them to live in their new home with us. We must work with the Godhead to come up with an indisputable plan that will prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that our fallen friends’ allegations against our heavenly kingdom are all false. Interacting with our human friends is one of the most effective tools we have to negate the ever-increasing accusations from Satan and his supporters. Because our human friends have not been a part of the war since the beginning, they have much to learn and understand about the universal cost of sin and their part in this battle. Frustratingly, we watch as many of our human friends fall for Satan’s deceptions every day; however God’s perfect blend of justice with mercy forbids us to act in a persuasive or direct manner while helping them to avoid these deceptions. Not only could our efforts be interpreted as being tyrannical, but they would not learn to trust God and take Him at His word. God warns us that fear develops in their hearts when they do not learn to trust us, so we are usually instructed to act beyond their cognizance when intervening in their lives. Our human friends’ frequent reaction to God’s intervention is blaming Him for pain they feel they don’t deserve, or unjustly criticizing Him of not being involved or caring about their needs and situations. We are sure those responses cut Him straight to the heart, but our forbearing Godhead keeps on escorting our human friends back to His side without a complaint or acknowledgment of the pain we know They feel inside. In spite of the rejection we and the Godhead face, we must go on in intervening in their lives because if we allow anyone with fear in their heart live with us, the universe could never be saved even if every other detail of God’s plan was carried out meticulously. Satan knows that all too well that where fear exists there could never be perfect love or harmony so he often tempts our human friends to believe there are good reasons to be afraid even though God is continually covering the earth with His love and mercy. Fortunately for all of us and our human friends alike, our empathetic and powerful God is just a thought and a breath away when we need His help in this battle.

Thank you. My original intent in writing this story was to remind people that God is the originator of good, not evil. It really saddens me when people blame God when things are not going well in their lives. So I thought that writing about how I picture God in the Bible might help and encourage other people who might be going through a rough time in their lives. One series that I really enjoy listening to and that has helped me see God in a new way is called The Picture of God in all 66 by Graham Maxwell. Here is the link to his audio series if you would like to listen to them. Pineknoll Audio Picture of God in all 66