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Gay, the points you brought up have been discussed here before from time to time. People cling on to the sin of sodomy because it is the fact that one sees with a light reading of the text. But as you pointed out elsewhere in the Bible it has been noted that the people's neglect of the poor was another reason. I am thinking that their sins likely included narcissism and violence (rape). Because they lived a life of relative ease they filled their time with evil. People condemn God for destroying whole civilisations in Old Testament times. But we need to remember that the nations of Canaan did detestable things that would shock us if we saw them in the news today.

Genesis 19 Living Bible (TLB) 19 That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom, and Lot was sitting there as they arrived. When he saw them he stood up to meet them, and welcomed them. 2 “Sirs,” he said, “come to my home as my guests for the night; you can get up as early as you like and be on your way again.” “Oh, no thanks,” they said, “we’ll just stretch out here along the street.” 3 But he was very urgent, until at last they went home with him, and he set a great feast before them, complete with freshly baked unleavened bread. After the meal, 4 as they were preparing to retire for the night, the men of the city—yes, Sodomites, young and old from all over the city—surrounded the house 5 and shouted to Lot, “Bring out those men to us so we can rape them.” 6 Lot stepped outside to talk to them, shutting the door behind him. 7 “Please, fellows,” he begged, “don’t do such a wicked thing. 8 Look—I have two virgin daughters, and I’ll surrender them to you to do with as you wish. But leave these men alone, for they are under my protection.” 9 “Stand back,” they yelled. “Who do you think you are? We let this fellow settle among us and now he tries to tell us what to do! We’ll deal with you far worse than with those other men.” And they lunged at Lot and began breaking down the door. 10 But the two men reached out and pulled Lot in and bolted the door 11 and temporarily blinded the men of Sodom so that they couldn’t find the door. ............................................................... As little children we grew up hearing fond Bible Stories.. Angels and miracles and Prophets and then to our horror as lil children (or older) hear the Story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Eeeks! O my! GOD was so raged and so offended by all the crazy consensual sodomy going on. That HE had to destroy, in the worst way possible, the homosexuals who dared to defile GOD and shirk their responsibility as men to propagate their species. No other town or city ever got that ! What kind of place would get the Wrath of GOD? THE WORST OF THE WORST!!!!!! Now, we as a good christian heterosexuals of the true church believe its our responsibility to rain down fire and brimstone on all homosexuals we meet face to face or (more better) in social media. The way we speak of them and preach and even vote. If not fire and brimstone then at the very least show disapproval backed up by scriptures every time we are free to do so..or dare to. Even when in Club Adventist we must share those scriptures like no LGBTIQQAA has ever heard them before.It is the first order of business of doing our Christian duty. Sadly many of LGBTIQQAA can verify this and not much else they learn from us good Christians. ................................................................................................ Well I want to share what I hear when I survey the Wondrous Cross and His supreme love for all of us. You see it in the beginning of the Story here! We see Abraham's heart for GOD in so many things painted in scriptures. We See Abraham having his beloved nephew choose where to split the land for the sake of Harmony between the two families. Lot chose the more fruitful and well watered towards Sodom. Abraham will trust GOD in his submission to Lot. We see Abraham's heart towards GOD when taking up His Beloved Son to sacrifice for GOD! and We see something so beautiful (for this special thread) when Abraham heart intercedes to the point of risking His life for GOD to reconsider destroying a whole city! 50! oops maybe not ok.. how about 40?.. 30? 20? ...uhh ..I was there not long ago and had Bible study and maybe ten showed up? ok? ..10 people LORD?( you see in five chapters back Abraham earned the right to minister unto the Sodomites. have you? ) umm..maybe that was just 10 questions 3 people asked at Lot's house? oops!Too Late! Okay, TEN it is! We all know the story. Anytime and Every time I heard a minister preach about homosexuals in Sodom ..he always left this out? why? why? why? Oh how he can lead the LGBTIQQAA to the CROSS on that alone! well anyhoo.. Moses also did this on behalf of the worst sinners -Exodus 32:32 JESUS showed the heart of GOD ..While we were yet sinners Christ died for us! Romans 5:8 Such tender regard for us I see in GOD. Of course Abraham spent alot of time with the Sodomites. He may have visited Lot and his Family and had the neighbors by ... then Lot was kidnapped and Abraham and 318 of his house went to war and brought Lot and his and the Sodomite's possessions And the Sodomites went back to the King of Sodom**. Wow! and look of all people to show up out of nowhere and all of the sudden in scriptures ! .. (get ready) .. Is that Priest of God Melchizedek bringing gifts of Bread and Wine (The symbol of JESUS sacrificed Body or just umm bread and wine)!- Standing next to the King of Sodom**himself. Melchizedek is The Priest (and often here throughout our church a symbol in the OT of JESUS our High Priest!) of Salem later called Jerusalem -City of Peace. Melchizedek pronounced blessings in front of all “The blessing of the supreme God, Creator of heaven and earth, be upon you, Abram; and blessed be God, who has delivered your enemies over to you.” Ooo I get goosebumps! You notice God was also there rescuing the Sodomites! All I see is God's goodness in that pronouncement. Abraham even gave Tithes to Him In front of the King of Sodom** ? The King of Sodom**just wanted His Sodomites back " You can keep All the treasures, I just want my beautiful Sodomites back!" Oh the stuff we can gleam from this alone. Talk about a witness! Talk about Melchizedek maybe witnessing and loving and representing JESUS to the Sodomites. That they may be saved before its too late! Oh what unutterable love! Could there have been a feast with the Bread and wine? The King of Sodom** looking so sodomitish maybe wearing manscara and a little rouge (not that anyone noticed) right next to the Representative of JESUS, The Priest! And Abraham sitting there having a heart for sinners as reflected in GOD! Just like Jesus eating and drinking with the worst of sinners? I see The CROSS in all this! Look deeper into the Story!!!! The Bible really goes out of the way Answering the question the real sins regarding Sodom doesn't even mention homosexuality by name why? Ezekiel 16: 49.50 49 She and her daughters were proud because they had plenty to eat and lived in peace and quiet, but they did not take care of the poor and the underprivileged. 50 They were proud and stubborn and did the things that I hate, so I destroyed them, as you well know. uhh.. take care of the poor is on the list? not sodomy? The Bible shares what things God hates God hates- They are called abominations. Proverbs 6 Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren. It is how we treat each other and the First abomination is how we look upon people! And St. Peter was later told to never call any man common or unclean (another word for Abominations) So many Christians who I love and adore love to break that Comandment. Even we find in the paraphrase THE CLEAR WORD (some call the SDA Bible) by Jack Blanco (whom I love and saw at Soquel CampMeeting) describes the event in Sodom as an invitation to a ' Homosexual Party! ' .. Genesis 19:5 * Don't be tarday for the partay! Some people think of forced sex as sex when in actuality it is rape and rape is an act of violence to humiliate and violate another person not consensual sex. A criminal act against one another. If this is how all the visitors get treated by all the men it is No wonder God had to step in GOD did set the stage for Stepping in. Thank GOD! God is more concerned how you treat people. It was in the flood and later almost promised to Nineveh We see two things God says about the antediluvians! Every thought in their heart was evil continually Genesis 6:5 and violence(murder rape mugging ) ruled the land Genesis 6:11. Yep sounds like Sodom. The scriptures explains itself! I realize to my chagrin that my church and macho culture since antiquity has turned us against a whole group of people. It is our job to rain down fire and brimstone on all homosexuals we meet in our little ways! right? I'm a glad i studied further into the matter. Now I must say something so no one will try to say something I am not saying. One of the definitions of sin is missing the mark. The Garden of Eden shows the entire Human Race the ideal. Before sin we had the Sabbath and a Sacred Marriage. One Husband and One Wife for Life! One Husband to love and love on the Wife as Christ loves the Church. As Symbolized As JESUS our Groom and we (yes both men and women) are the Bride! Every sexual way outside that Holy Matrimony described above misses the Mark entirely. A sin. So what does Jesus do with us all who missed the Mark? So many marks we all miss. The list is long in the Bible alone and God stillworks toward them to trust HIM and love HIM more! I want the LGBTIQQAA to see the heart of Abraham/Moses/JESUS when we mention them here and there. They are watching! BTW most of LGBTIQQAA have heard the scriptures against them and their lifestyles(or whatever) and not a lot of GODS great Love for them as they are and where they sit right now no matter what. It is my sincere Hope that will change. Oh if our Church can study deeper! P.S. the term 'sodomy' is widely used since antiquity regarding what kind of sex Sodom was guilty of (rape is not consensual sex) as described in Genesis 19 and maybe that's why God had to set the record straight in Ezekiel many years later for all of to see. Still the term 'Sodomy' for thousands of years hung on much like the term 'Indians"has hung 400 years around even though they figured out long ago Columbus didn't land in India. Poor analogy ,i know ,but I think you got the picture. ................................................. *Most homosexual parties don't include rape. ** I can just shudder to think what one has to do to be called The King Of SODOM!

Share on emailMore Sharing Services White Horse News Dr. Ben Carson, Adventists, Sunday Laws Dear friend, What you are about to read is THE MOST SHOCKING information I have ever sent out via Enews. Events occurring NOW in our world have convinced me that time is very short. Honestly, this is no time to beat around the bush. I must speak plainly. God's Spirit compels me. Here goes ... Most of you know that my church affiliation is Seventh-day Adventist. Dr. Ben Carson, one of the most famous neurosurgeons in the world, officially announced yesterday that he has decided to run for President of the United States. Dr. Carson is a Seventh-day Adventist too. No doubt his campaign will bring increasing media attention to the Adventist Church itself and to what Adventists actually believe. This may be God's exact plan. Concerning salvation, Adventists strongly believe (no matter what our critics say) that sinners are saved by grace, not works (see Ephesians 2:8,9). Yet we also believe that born-again Christians who are transformed by Jesus should live moral lives and keep the Ten Commandments. Millions of other Christians believe this too. Yet we also apply this to commandment number four, which states, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8). Concerning prophecy, this is where things get really interesting. Adventists also believe that the "beast" of Revelation 13:1-10 is a symbol of the Roman Catholic Church system (not the people, per se), that the Roman Church (by their own admission) changed the Bible Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, that Sunday itself is a "mark" of Rome's authority (also by their own admission), and that someday this "mark" (Sunday) will be legislated worldwide (see Revelation 13:16,17). God will use this crisis to "test" human beings all over His planet. Will people follow their Creator, or the Beast? Our church has been teaching this for over 150 years. 1) Believe it or not, Sunday legislation is growing around the world. White Horse Media has highlighted in a 5-minute "World News and the Bible" TV program entitled, "Hungarian Sunday Law." 2) On March 27, 2015, Arizona Senator Sylvia Allen (R) stated that Americans should be debating a bill requiring mandatory Sunday observance. This was reported on CNN. 3) On April 18, 2015, "The Lord's Day Alliance of the U.S." ran an article entitled, "Sunday as a Mark of Christian Unity." 4) White Horse Media is about to release a newsletter entitled, "The Time is at Hand!", outlining major events now occurring with the Roman Catholic Church (the first beast of Revelation 13:1), in America (the second beast of Revelation 13:11), and providing details about the fast-approaching "mark of the beast," which will soon occur when Sunday observance is legislated worldwide. You can read our newsletter here, and also order copies for sharing from White Horse Media. 1-800-782-4253. 5) This coming Thursday, May 7, Tim Saxton and I will be LIVE on 3ABN worldwide for two hours (6-8 pm PT, 7-9 pm MT, 8-10 CT, 9-11 ET) discussing these very things before millions of viewers. If you don't receive 3ABN in your home, you can watch that program online at that time at www.3abn.org. 6) To learn the Bible facts, read White Horse Media's pocketbook, Decoding the Mark of the Beast. Sensing that time is short, I am now teaching prophecy seminars called, "America, the Beast, and the Devil's Deadly Mark," covering these exact topics. Two weeks ago I was in Menomonie, WI, speaking on this very subject. A local Christian talk show host, Mark Halvorsen at WWIB 103.7, interviewed me. You can listen to that interview now. Dear friend, if you believe in White Horse Media, we hope you will support us in these critical times. As a faith ministry, we need help, and trust God to provide through His people. Our goal is to be bold, yet humble, compassionate, yet straight-forward. We want to lift up Jesus, who is not only our Savior, but also our Creator (see John 1:10), and "Lord of the Sabbath" (see Matthew 12:8). The Sabbath points to Jesus Christ as the Maker of all life. Believe it or not, it was our Creator who became a man and then died on a cruel cross to atone for our sins of violating His Law (see 1 John 3:4). "If you love Me," Jesus urges, "keep My commandments" (John 14:15, compare with Exodus 20:6). As God's "sure word of prophecy" (2 Peter 1:19) comes to pass right before our very eyes, let's all show our loyalty to Him. Your brother on the front lines, Steve Wohlberg Speaker/Director, White Horse Media www.whitehorsemedia.com

You won't believe what will happen if you obey the command to draw: http://www.drawastickman.com/episode1

LynDel has posted a news item that reports on an accident involving a Van used by a SDA congregation in New York that resulted in the deaths of three people riding in the van. NOTE: It should be noted that there was no alleged error on the part of the van driver and that the use of that van probably did not play any factor in the deaths of the three people. Probably the fault lies with the other vehicle. This brings up the issue of local congregations and the vehicles that they use to transport children to school and adults to other gatherings. Twelve (12) and fifteen (15) passenger vans are generally considered unsafe to be used in school transportation In some places they are prohibited by law. See the following: http://www.nasdpts.org/documents/vanssurveyfeb04.pdf Granted the above only relates to the transportation of school children. I am told by SDA School personnel that the SDA Church strongly advises against the use of 12 & 15 passenger vans for the transportation of any people. You might want to check on what your church is using to transport people.

​This is absolutely true. The only scriptures Paul had were the OT. In it the concept of ga'al, that of ransoming a relative(paying their debt) is the only concept which describes the work of Jesus. Do a serious word study on redeem, redeemed, redemption, ransom, and Redeemer in the OT see the linkage between them ga'al. I spent at least 4-5 hours a day for 3 months on this study and I came away from it with a greatly enhanced understanding of the plan of salvation. This concept is found throughout the writings of Ellen White too. Do word studies and see what you find. I found several megabytes of quotes( many hundreds) linking the concept of ga'al to the plan of salvation. You will rarely hear this preached on or taught in depth, but a serious study of this will lead you to only place--ga'al is the legal underpinning of the entire plan of salvation.

8thdaypriest is correct in that Christ's life and death boght a grace period. He was our ransom. So much of this misunderstanding could be cleared up if people would only study the concept of ga'al in the Bible and what Ellen White has to say about the subject. ga'al is the foundation of the plan of salvation. Christ came here and lived and died to become human, for only a human could pay our ransom. Only as a human being could He become the closest relative we have who could pay our debt--who could ransom us. Christ purchased us. We weren't "in Christ" in some metaphysical mumbo jumbo. He became one of us so He could buy us back from the devil who overcome us through deciet and treachery. Notice how these quotes refute Robert's and Samie's assertions. God paid a price to redeem us, to ransom us back from the first terrorist. The concept of ga'al completely eliminates the "in Christ" motif for it is basis of the plan of redemption. Every mention of redemption, being redeemed, or Redeemer in both Testaments is translated directly from ga'al or from words meaning ransom or to purchase. The link is so strong it cannot be ignored by an honest Bible student.

Hi JoeMoe! Nice to see you here. There is a plush comfy couch in here to sit on.. as well as a giant vat of steamy Pero to sip! One straw per person. Thanks to Stan.We now have some new window treatment. ..Tiger print! It was donated by ZSA ZSA ..I think. :/ LGBTBIQQAA means LESBIAN GAY BISEXUAL TRANSGENDER INTERSEX QUEER QUESTIONING ASEXUAL ALLIES The list might get longer.before Christ comes. ​And God loves everyone of them and us. And that love from Him to us will automatically spill all over to all those precious souls ..militant or not,active or not and ,churched or not. It can't help itself! Thank you for asking JoeMo. God bless you more!.

Thanks Jackson for pointing out that I said "at the END of the 70 weeks". I should have said, "At the end of the 2300 evening-mornings." The Sanctuary is "cleansed" - perfect tense - completed process, at the END of the 2300 evening-mornings. A process of cleansing did not just BEGIN at the end of the 2300 evening mornings. It WILL BE COMPLETE, at the end of the 2300 evening-mornings. Which negates Oct. 22nd, 1844 as the START of an investigative judgment (cleansing proces?), that is STILL GOING ON after 170 years. Passover, First Fruits, and Pentecost were ONE DAY Feasts, with fulfillments that were complete within ONE DAY. The Day of Atonement was a ONE DAY fast, with a fulfillment that will be begin and end within ONE DAY. The "scapegoat" will be banished to the "uninhabited place" on THAT same day, and the High Priest will come forth to bless His waiting people. You say that the 2300 evening-mornings, and the 70 weeks BEGAN AT THE SAME TIME, with the command in 457. You say the fulfillment of the 70 weeks verifies the 1844 date for a cleansing process the Advent pioneers terms an "investigative judgment". I think there are just too many holes in that doctrinal teaching.

Is not attacking a business owner, taking away her business, livelihood, and even her home thru monetary penalties, a TYPE of violent subjugation? The gay movement in this country is not content with tolerance. They DEMAND acceptance on every level, with threats of lawsuits, or worse, violent demonstrations. They DEMAND children be taught that consensual homosexual acts are NOT WRONG in any way. Gays would remove from Scripture every reference describing sin of any kind (not just sodomy) and would leave only love, love, love. But it is not loving, to tell a child continually that they are "loved" and at the same time, to let them do whatever they want, and not guide them, or restrain them in some way from harmful practices. The LORD gave commandments and laws for His people, so they would NOT BE LIKE the Egyptians or Babylonians, or other peoples. He commanded that they "drive out" or destroy all of the Canaanites, lest they be infected with their practices, which included child sex slavery (at their temples), child sacrifice, adult fertility sex rites, and homosexual practices.

​ ​I didn't say an attraction,I said practicing lifestyles that God has forbidden No I didn't misrepresent what you said. I asked what you meant by man made VS what God has said. I didn't know so rather than assume I asked. Sorry if you were offended by that. I don't have any problem believing that there will be some surprising people in heaven and some surprises as to who is not there. Is this so much about what the church believes about a person or those that are living a lifestyle not compatible with what God says?

​...as did the Jews and just about every other Middle Eastern civilization of that era. Gay - I never even considered the things that you brought up about Sodom. The abomination was rape - an act of violence; the best way to beat up and humiliate someone; an effective way of showing one's total dominance over another? A newl idea (to me at least) - worth serious consideration. And I never paid attention to the presence of the King of Sodom when Melchizedek met with Abraham. That was a great Bible study! In another thread I raised the possibility that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was sex with angels rather than same-gender sex. Gay's study shows that might be irrelevant if the issue is violence and subjection (rape). I learn more every day!

There really isn't much that is direct about your statements.I don't believe I have asked you to answer any and all personal questions. Please list them if you can. When I said you were deflecting it was not in reference to any questions. Makes me think of my boys when they were small. I have four boys,the first three quite close in age.It was not uncommon for them to play this same game. If one found himself in trouble the first thing he did was decide what we really needed to talk about was the far worse sins of his brothers. The one in trouble knew he had done something wrong but that certainly could be winked at if we only understood how much worse his brothers were. I have not asked what your lifestyle choices are.,I frankly don't care as I can not do anything about it one way or another..Where the problem comes in is others,you know,"those other Christians"must agree with you and "gay marriage" or somehow we are discriminating against you and are unloving. Your acceptence spiel goes only one way

If the LORD has given us a list of prohibited behaviors, we should pay attention if we wish to join his Kingdom. We can try to pass ourselves off as Christians, but the LORD reads our minds and is not fooled by arguments that attempt to justify or excuse our transgressions. What others do or don't do is not so much our business, rather, it's our personal responsibility to study the LORD's commandments in order to resist transgressing them and promote the behaviors that will please him. Jesus was tough on himself, but sympathetic with suffering humans, a good example for all of us.

The following is instructive as to the purpose of the message from WHM:

A symbol of tyranny for three decades, the despised wall separating East and West Berlin, Germany, came down 25 years ago. But why was it built in the 1960s? And is it true that kids were the first ones who dared to defy its armed guards on the day that it came tumbling down? Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/News/news-galleries/The-Berlin-Wall-25-Startling-Facts.aspx#54lPWsjHthOsssRT.99

​The message generally follows Genesis 4 and 5. The comparison is between Abraham and Lot. Lot chose a different path than abraham, and the consequences were great for his family. He went to Sodom for wealth and prosperity, but he left penniless living in a cave with his sons in law and wife dead. Lots daughters were also twisted from the pagan influence on them, and took matters into their own hands instead of trusting God. A woman in the ancoient times was in great trouble with out an heir-they did not trust God, but trusted in themselves The effects were the Moabites who were in constant conflict with the children of God. despite this, the lineage of Jesus would be through a Moabite woman of faith and charactor-Ruth was the grandmother of king David.

​The bible conveys it as the offspring of Cain, and the offspring Seth, but what the text is trying to convey is those who are faithful and loyal to God and those who are in opposition to God. The term sons of God can also be stated as "children of God"-those who follow Him and identify with Him. In chapter 5, the text comes right out and repeats the creation blessing given to Adam in Genesis chapter 1. This is the written account of Adam’s family line. When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind”[a] when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 1.Notice that the text re-states that Adam was made in the image of God, then Seth is made in the image of Adam. This shows that the line of Seth through Adam is the sons of god, or the children of God-in His likeness 2. Notice that the creation blessing is again restated. The Godly line of Seth is attributed with the repeated term "had other sons and daughters" The Hebrew contrast is in motion here, and chapter 5 is written to be read in contrast to chapter 4. I can keep going on, and identify the daughters of man if you wish. I can keep going and identify the strange flesh also, but one step at a time

I love Guacamole Of course it has to be kosher!

​While savagery is used by mankind as a method to solve problems, that problem developed by the master of deceit and was not part of the universe's norm until he tried to take over the throne of the King of the universe. While it may appear as if violence originated with God, the fact that the world is continuing in the same vein reveals the patience and love of God Who is allowing it to continue until all will see the archenemy's flawed effort to wrest God's kingdom away from Him is not only futile but will eventually wil be totally removed at the full recognition by all, both believers and unbelievers. …9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father....Philippians 2 …43"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45"But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.…John 8 God is Love! Jesus saves!

​It does mean I believe the following regardless of anyone regardless of their profession,their liberal ideology or but God loves everyone mentality. No matter how you attempt to twist and shape this like a child does with silly putty it still says the same thing. Maybe to some it is antiquated and biased and properly understood homosexuality is not wrong,I will trust the old antiquated words of God over the "more enlightened minds" on this forum. "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22) "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13) “ "Do you not know that the unrighteous will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, ... nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, ... will inherit the Kingdom of God. And such were some of you. ('Repent' means 'stop' and return to God and His Word) But you were washed (through the innocent blood of Jesus which was shed for our sins) But you were sanctified (means "set apart" ... all who will believe in Jesus are "set apart") But you were justified (justified means "just as if it had never happened ...") in the Name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

Oh, I forgot to add in the first post: He is seeing how Protestantism and Catholicism are grasping hands and indicates that soon we should also see it with spiritualism. We see here the same danger as looking to go back to the 5th head. If we study Mrs. White, while we think of spiritualism as things like séances and Ouija boards and what is involved with the occult. But to Mrs. White this is only one popular way of spreading spiritualism, not spiritualism itself. Spiritualism itself is the concept that we are the final authority of what is true. That what is true for you may not be true for me. That there is no right or wrong except for what you think is right or wrong. In a series of Last Day Events lectures delivered at the Southern New England Campmeeting in 1976 the speaker pointed this out and how this has grown since the 1920s. He closed with (and I don't have the exact words here but something like) "If you are looking forward to the great spiritualistic events of the future, beware they occurred 50 years ago." Had we not grasped hands with true spiritualism 90 years ago, we would not be having the dangers that Dr. Pfandi is pointing out in the above article. But sadly while waiting for the 5th head to return he is also looking forward to the reaching out of the hand to spiritualism. As we missed the true prophecy that happened 90 years ago and are still looking forward to it happening; so as we look to return to the 5th head, we will pass into the 7th unaware.

Such a sad ending to what I feel sure as a lovely weekend. One day we will not have to deal with the sadness on this old ball of mud. Praying for the families

I am saddened by this news. It also hit's home to me since I live in New York. Back in 1982-83 I worked for the Brooklyn church putting on it's Christmas and Easter plays. Also, when the Brooklyn church was the Norwegian-Danish church in Bay Ridge, that was the church my Grandmother was baptized in. I see in the article that this is a different church than "The Brooklyn Church" but another church in Brooklyn, but this still hits close to home. My prayers go out to the families.

the link above required a "create an account" and "log in" (which I don't like to do)... Here's a different link for some information: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/members-brooklyn-church-die-van-crash-article-1.2209053

Yes, please tell him I'm thinking of him too. And praying for his improvement. As for myself, I don't fear death. It's the dying process which I fear. Hopefully he can have some medical or hospice care to ease things for him. Jeannie

He's in my prayers everyday. Miss him posting here, but I do catch him on FB. Not as much as I'd like!!