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Stan may set the standard as he produces the English and French editions of the CANADIAN ADVENTIST MESSENGER. But, I will suggest that on a single issue basis the May, 2015, edition of THE OUTLOOK (the Mid-American Union) sets the standard in several of its articles. All quotations listed below come from that edition. From: “The Challenge—Evangelistically, Part 2, by Thomas Lemon, MID-American Union President: From “God Love Ya’ Mike,” by Michael Temple, currently a SDA pastor in the Dakota Conference: From “He Carries Me Through,” by Rachel Ashworth: NOTE: There is much more in the above.

​Let's go back to Romans 1:26 Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. Notice that the sexual acts above are called "unnatural". So it is very logical that "strange flesh" means same sex. BTW, notice that the "males...received in their own persons...the penalty for their perversity." Paul here is speaking of diseases associate with sodomy, namely AIDS. This is the natural result when God gives those who "practice" these perverse sex acts, up.

Guacamole is great in limited amounts, but very unappetizing after it turns brown in the fridge.

Me, too!

Ah, here 'tis: http://outlookmag.org/the-challenge-evangelistically/ I'm not sure there's a lot more there in terms of real, deep answers to the hard questions. Time and stealth seem to be the prescriptions... Realising that archaeology-based evangelistic campaigns are not the solution for everyone seems like a step forward. I guess I'm partly the wrong audience anyway... because I'm not in the camp that believes SDA Christianity is the right choice for 100% of all human beings. About 99% of all human beings seem to agree with me, but I guess we could all be wrong...

I'd love to have the ability to read the whole of that first article. Maybe, because I'm just seeing a short piece, it's a quote-mine, establishing a position he doesn't actually hold in order to critique it. Taken at face value, this statement is deeply problematic: "Within my brief lifetime our culture has dramatically shifted from one in which biblical values were simply and rightly assumed to one in which Christian mores are regularly assaulted..." Among other things, there's a lot of confusion between biblical values and cultural values. Anyway, I'll go for a dig. And I do think the broader question of that paper is a valid and interesting one: how do we introduce people to the gospel when (a) they don't simply assume it and take it as read and just switch brands and (b) the gospel has been so egregiously misrepresented for so long?

​Genesis7 ,Nice to meet you here. I read Genesis 12 cause you said what u said pasted above. You are comparing the circumstance of Pharaoh giving gifts for Sarah being taken into his own household with Abraham not taking his share bounty for a battle from the King of Sodom? oh boy! Abraham for one took all the gifts from the Pharaoh under false pretenses. It is his wife not a single sister.. huh? And Abraham got what he came for IN THE BATTLE...HIS FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was more than enough,wouldnt you say? Genesis7? How on earth.... Nevermind the highly religious was very troubled that JESUS associated with Sinners (tax collectors and prostitutes were the tip of the iceberg) it happens still:( I will be watching you GBU!

Luke 17:21-Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I use lime juice rather than lemon, and add a bit of cilantro to it

I went back to read your post at the beginning of your thread. It does seem to me, that you are telling heterosexual "Christians" not to act as judges of homosexuals. You say that the LORD destroyed Sodom (and the cities of the plain) NOT for consensual homosexual acts, but for homosexual rape. What about other unlawful sexual practices ? Should those who do these things be refused membership in the congregation? I remember a guy - many years ago - who came to a Revelation Seminar with the women he had been "living with" for 2 years. She had already been baptized at some time in the past. He wanted very much to be baptized. He said that the pastor did not have to make him a member. He just wanted to be baptized. I think he saw this as a sort of guarantee of eternal life. Well the pastor counseled with him several times, explaining that living with a woman (without a marriage covenant) was "unlawful" (this is what the word fornication means). He explained that a person must "repent" of past sins, and agree to "forsake" present sins (to the best of their ability - with God's help). The man WANTED the guarantee of eternal life, WITHOUT giving up his "freedom" from a legal marriage entanglement. He had already been divorced twice. The pastor - with a heavy heart - refused to baptize the man. So - in your opinion gayatfootofcross, was the pastor WRONG to refuse the baptism? SHOULD pastors baptize openly LGBTs ?

Hmmmm .... Wasn't this subject debated ad infinitum a few months back?

You seem to be saying that all "Christians" should just fellowship and try to get along, regardless of the particular "sins" of individuals. Sort of a don't-ask-don't-tell. Cause we all are sinners, and most continue to sin. No individual should be "shunned" or "disfellowshiped" for any particular sin (or any particular belief). Right? But in Scripture, God DID command separation. Israel was commanded to have nothing to do with Canaanites. Lest they be infected with their practices of idolatry, and fornication. And Paul wrote, "Do NOT be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? (2Cor. 6:14). I realize he was writing about marriage, but the same principle applies. 1 Corinthians 5:1-3 "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? (NIV) The blatant, continuing practice of sinful acts, IS grounds for separating the individual from the group. It is a principle, that sinful practices - when tolerated - gradually become accepted, and lead to the destruction of the entire group. THAT is what has happened and is happening in this USA. (I'm not just talking about homosexuality here.) How many mothers and fathers have forbidden their sons or daughters to "hang out with those boys" or "those girls" or "that crowd". How many are dismayed by the things their kids learn at secular colleges. Before long, it will become illegal to disfellowship any LGBT person from any religious congregation. It will be termed "discrimination". The process of homogenization by government mandate, has come a long way, and will progress until being "different" or "separate" for any reason, will be termed a "crime" against the greater group.

​Being part of God's kingdom is not about being perfect. Being part of God's kingdom is about knowing and accepting the standard of what perfection is and saying, "That's what I want" and then letting God do His good work in you to bring it about. Even if we fall during the process of growth it's not a problem because we get back up again because that's what kingdom people do. The key is to understand and accept the Father's standard knowing that someday we will all be like Him. The Father is the standard for what kingdom people should be like.

​Carson has stated again and again that he doesn't want to be a politician. He's staying true to what he says. And of course he is correct about the GOP. It is as corrupt and anti-constitutional as the Democrat party. I watched some of that interview and I have to say I agree with him wholeheartedly. I love him staying true to his convictions. He's a man of integrity and that is something missing from almost all politicians these days. If his name is on the primary ballot I'll vote for him then and in the general election.

Gay, the points you brought up have been discussed here before from time to time. People cling on to the sin of sodomy because it is the fact that one sees with a light reading of the text. But as you pointed out elsewhere in the Bible it has been noted that the people's neglect of the poor was another reason. I am thinking that their sins likely included narcissism and violence (rape). Because they lived a life of relative ease they filled their time with evil. People condemn God for destroying whole civilisations in Old Testament times. But we need to remember that the nations of Canaan did detestable things that would shock us if we saw them in the news today.

If the LORD has given us a list of prohibited behaviors, we should pay attention if we wish to join his Kingdom. We can try to pass ourselves off as Christians, but the LORD reads our minds and is not fooled by arguments that attempt to justify or excuse our transgressions. What others do or don't do is not so much our business, rather, it's our personal responsibility to study the LORD's commandments in order to resist transgressing them and promote the behaviors that will please him. Jesus was tough on himself, but sympathetic with suffering humans, a good example for all of us.

I love Guacamole Of course it has to be kosher!

God's law is absolute but the applications are not absolute. We need to use common sense on how to apply the principles. To on the one hand be where we are deepening our knowledge of the Bible and relationship with our loved ones but on the other hand to keep it from becoming another day or a day lost in excitement that would fit better on another day.

Thank you very much for your replies. Sojournes, I think you got to the point when you say "...its about developing the relatioship with G-d where you begin to hear His voice and understand via relationship what it is that He wants you to do.". I think I just need to understand what the Sabbath is all about and what meaning it has because I see no point in setting up a schema where all the things that you can do or cannot do are regulated to its deepest detail, I think this would be nonsense. Everybody is different, some need strick regulations over their lifes (what to do, when to do, what not if... and so on), some others maybe do not need that to develop that relationship. For instance, having a ride with your motorcycle on a Sabbath may be a self-pleasuring matter but it can be a very intense experience with the creation and God. I don´t know, I just have to understand it. Regards,

About 75 years ago I experienced a childhood in something like a Historic Adventist environment. At that time the total church membership was under 500,000, so the important concern was to discover how many of these would not make the 144,000. It was fairly easy to see which of the women in the church would not make the 144,000. We were certain none of those wearing short dresses, high heels, red lipstick or jjewelry would be accounted worthy. No curled hair but only those wearing a knot in the back were acceptable. Those outward signs were strong indications the people had the right understanding of rightouness by faith and other important SDA doctrines. Since alll of the men in church wore a suit for Sabbath it was more difficult to judge their motives and knowledge of the TRUTH. We presumed they would not change into other clothes before sundown.

There is a gap in unity on this subject. however good people feel in their relationship to God, this disconnect persists. It seems no efforts are made to close the gap rather just to promote separate positions. It is just adamant holding of opposing positions like siblings in an argument, and the parents cannot bring them together. they are still members of the family, but persist in argument of their position. Like a grain of sand in the oyster i trust this irritation will form a pearl. This disagreement is just the top of the iceberg with all the rest much greater mass unspoken about that likes below. It is like the proxy reference.

Someone I know the other day made a comment on how much they dislike Jesus. When I asked them why, they started listing of a great list of Christian behaviour, most of which I could not disagree with. So I asked them to tell me some things about Jesus. Again they listed of a bunch of stuff relating to Christians, again most of which was undeniable. But yet never did they actually say anything about Jesus himself, just about the religions that have adopted his name as their title. It got me thinking, is Jesus a captive of Christianity? Is his message, his ideals, his whole persona held back and hidden by Christianity?

I don't even think it is possible to do anything that would cause God to stop loving us. If He knows everything that ever has happened, is happening, or will happen, He knew everything that we would ever do in advance; so how could we do anything that would either disappoint or impress Him? How could we do anything to make Him love us any more or less than He already does?