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Rachel, I cannot challenge your experience. You went through it and I did not. However, I can challenge your understanding of denominational policy, even if people do not always practice it. Here in the U.S. the majority of SDA Congregations would likely, in my thinking, be willing to accept as a member a person who did not accept EGW as a prophet. However,. with the rise of fundamentalism, there is a growing voice in the SDA Church who would want to change that and make a belief in her as a prophet a requirement for membership. I acknowledge that.

An interesting, important and valid question. The short answer is that one can be a Seventh-day Adventist and not believe that EGW as a prophet of God. However, there are those who will immediately disagree with my statement. The problem arises due to misunderstandings of the so-called 28 Fundamental Beliefs and the so-called Baptismal Vow. My position, as I have practiced it, is that the Baptismal Vows define the minimal requirement for entry into the SDA Church. In regard to this matter, the historic Vow, as it continues to exist today, says: "Do you believe [I believe] the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church?" This statement requires that one believe that there is a valid "gift of prophecy" that will exist in the church of God at some unstated point in end time. It does NOT require a belief in any specific person. E.G. It does not require a belief in EGW as a manifestation of that gift. This set of Baptismal Vows consists of some 13 statement of belief. In recent times an alternative see of Baptismal Vows has been produced that has been reduced to three (3) simple statements. This set of three does not contain any explicit statement on this issue, as is contained in the 13. My personal position is that this alternative set does not require a belief in EGW as a prophet. However, others challenge me on this and believe that it does contain an implied statement of a required belief in EGW as a prophet. My response to that is that if this is so, it is only the alternative set that requires it and the so-called thirteen does not. In any case, the problem arises due to the so-called 28 Fundamental beliefs. This is a statement which is longer than that of the Baptismal Vow and it says, in part: "One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift . . . was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. . . . the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested." If this fundamental belief is a standard by which membership in the SDA Church should be measured, then a specific belief in her is required. But, tyhta is not how I understand the so-called 28. [NOTE: In its original formulation it was 27 fundamental beliefs. An additional one was added later to make 28.] The editors of the 27, which was published in 1988, said: "We have not written this book to serve as a creed, a statement of beliefs set in theological concrete." IOW, it was not published, in my thinking in an attempt to define the standard by which one should be determined to be a member of the SDA denomination. Rather, it was published to put into print the most commonly held beliefs of SDA members. Certainly, most SDA members believe that EGW was a prophet, even if they disagree on exactly what that means. So, in brief, the above is my personal understanding: The belief in EGW As a prophet is not required to be a member of the SDA denomination. Further, there is no clearly defined belief as to what it means to say that she is a prophet.

I've thought about this a lot. There's a quote from the Spirit of Prophecy which says something to the effect that when Christ mused, "to what should I compare the kingdom of God?", He could think of anything in this world (she says in the "civil world" I think) to use, which strikes me as a bit amusing, and a testiment to your comment. That is, it seems that Jesus was so steeped in the other world, the real one, but the one which seems "vaprous" (to just through something out there that I hope captures the idea) to us that when He came back to "reality" (the temporary world that will pass away), He really had to think! It also makes me think of Hebrews 11, where is speaks of God not being ashamed of the pilgrims who seeked for another world, and a city not made with hands.

​ God is Love! Jesus saves!

mental illness is not a form of possession... Satan can *use* the illness to do evil things, but he's much more interested in using "normal" people to do his work...

If someone shunned you for your stand on Ellen White, shame on them. I disagree with some of your prophetic beliefs and your stand on Ellen Whites inspiration, but I would never shun you for it. I'd "argue" with you about it, but it would never go beyond that. But then I "argue" with a lot of people. It's just me being always ready to give a reason for what I believe in.

Short answer: Yes. This is nothing to do with theology it just a statement of fact. I have met many SDA's over the years who are at the very least skeptical about the gifts of EGW but still are active office holders in the church. I do note that you use the word repudiate which is a lot stronger than being skeptical. I have known/know pastors who completely reject the prophetic ministry of EGW but of course do not preach or teach that. They hold their positions since many in their congregations are indifferent or are also skeptical of her work and ministry. There has always been an element, even in EGW's day who did not accept her work. IMHO the SDA church seems to have edited itself to where it's more controversial beliefs are less central to the everyday message and practice of the church. We have underestimated the impact of Walter Rae and Desmond Ford. We assume that those Pastors and leaders who remained in the church after Glacier View and "all that" embraced the church's teachings. Incidentally, there are many lay people and leaders who do not accept the IJ. They lead our churches and run our institutions. They have done this for years. They are considered to be SDA's in regular standing.

Stan, I think, would like for me to clarify what I meant when I suggested that some might need clarification as to what is meant by accepting EGW as a prophet. I will suggest that the issue falls into two areas, and that many of us are contaminated by our thoughts as to what is generally meant in society today when we call someone a prophet. All top often we consider a prophet to be one like Jean Dixon, who tells people what will happen in the future. The Biblical role of a prophet was not primarily telling people what would happen in the Future, although that was a part. It was first of all to communicate God's message to humans. that message, even if in part told of the future, had a primary basis of spiritual reform and spiritual nuture. Ellen White's work was largely an administrative work in guiding a developing denomination in the direction that God wanted it to go. A second major part of her work was that of spiritual development, speaking of the love and salvation of God, encouraging people to follow the leading of the Holy spirit. A minor part was in reproff--reprof mainly of leadership. another minor role was that of talking about the future. All to many who reject EGW believe that if they accepted her as a prophet they would need to place her writings above those of the Bible. This is a false concept.

The brain is an amazing organ, it functions 24/7/365, and it does literally everything to keep one alive. It deals with electrical impulses, fluids and chemicals. Sometimes when one or more of those things goes wrong, strange things happen, if the electrical impulse misfires then one can have a seizure, if the chemicals get imbalanced then mental illness disorders occurs. Drugs and psychotherapy will usually get this imbalance back on track. People who are demon possessed normally don't realize that they are possessed or that they even have a problem. Other people can pick up on a possessed person though. Work with your doctor and don't stop taking your meds, and please see a psychotherapist they can give you exercises to help with the depression and anything else you are dealing with. <3

Hi Femster, My hearth goes out to you with the hell you must be going through. My oldest son suffered from bipolar disease. As long as he stayed the course on his medication, he was controlled and coltrollable. However, after several months of feeling OK, he would think he was "cured"; stop his medication abruptly; and go off the deep end a few days later; only to be forced to take his meds again. Bottom line - TAKE YOUR MEDS - even when you feel under control. As far as deminic pocession and mental illness goes, I can't say whether or not mental illnes is the result of or the same as mental illness. However, I will propose that at the very least, mental illness provides a huge channel for satan to "enteq'r someone; and the disorganized mind may not be able to distinguish self-talk from the voice of satan. Father God, in the Name of Jesus, set up a fortress around Femster's mind that cannot be penetrated by the evil one! Quiet and calm her mind, Lord! Give her the conviction to keep on her meds; and to NEVER give up calling out to you for help. There is NO mental illness in heaven! We claim "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"! We pray the Kingdom over Fem; that there will be no mental illness where she dwells, either.

​The article you sited Jackson, basically says that the prophecy of Ezekiel was only what might have been, if Judah had returned to the LORD with all her heart. QUOTE: "A third group, that includes most Adventist teachers during the last few decades, view these prophecies as conditional prophecies that, due to the failure of the Jews, never will be fulfilled in any real sense." So - I am to believe that the LORD gave half Ezekiel's visions as simply "conditional promises". Judah did not fulfill the "conditions" therefore the promise will not be fulfilled by the LORD. Can you point to any other vision/prophecy that was only a "what might have been"? How sad, to read all those "promises" of Scripture, (not just Ezekiel's vision) realizing that Israel, Judah (nor we ourselves) fulfill the "conditions". Oh - but - that's right - JESUS FULFILLED THOSE CONDITIONS - for all of those who will believe in Him. Therefore those "promises" CAN be fulfilled for the redeemed - who WILL BE Israel. There are 12 gates into the New Jerusalem. Every one has the name of one tribe over it. There is no gate labeled, "Gentile believers enter here." You must be an Israelite to have a home in THAT City. Even Mrs. White wrote, "The Israel of God stands with faces lifted up" - describing those delivered at the Second Coming. Ezekiel's visions are for redeemed "Israel" - (spiritual Israel) not simply for the remnant of ancient Judea. Isaiah 55:11 "So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it." The LORD said it WILL happen. The only question is: WHEN? I believe the visions of Ezekiel FIT BETTER with the return of redeemed Israel to the land, from the Father's House where they have spent 1000 years preparing to serve as "priests of God and of Christ" to govern and educate "the rest of the dead".

What would need prophet defined better. Some of the prophets of old were rascals at times. Yet they were still prophets.

​ Keep looking up! God is Love! Jesus saves!

​I heard a comment by pastor John Lomacang (sp) yesterday that told the story for me as it has transpired over the last 50 years, and I don't expect it to stop until this below happens. The pastor said, "Jesus accepts you where you are, but He doesn't leave you where you are." The term, Follow Me" comes to mind. …51Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.…1 Corinthians 15 Knowing what I am like, this below means much to me. …8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us....1 Corinthians 1 The further I can get away from what I use to be, the more I feel Jesus is glorified. And that has its' reward while we are still in this world. As the apostle Paul stated__________ …19"For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. 20"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me....Galatians 2 God is Love! Jesus saves!

And women are ordained in those capacities now and have been ordained as local elders for many years with the blessing of the GC. So what is the issue? You and others keep trying to turn it back to an issue of authority. You speak in terms of headship. Understand that we are and have been since the beginning of the Adventist Church centered around the principle of servant leadership, not headship. That sort of headship thinking is precisely that which EGW warned against in speaking agains "kingly powers". Read the essays in the pinned reading assignment.

I think an answer to those who seem to be uncomfortable with this story is that in each generation and in many churches, there are stories like this told and many untold. In each generation, subculture, ethnic group, community, local church there seems to always be some category of person or people that are on the outs, in a minority, odd, out of sync, blessed with differentness, or unavoidably obvious weaknesses, frailties, struggles or whatever. Humanity in general and churches in particular have a very checkered history in how they respond to such people. Most often people turn away, hide them in "closets", chase them away, would rather not talk about them, touch them, talk to them, eat and fellowship with them, work with them, play with them, live with them or worship with them. Occasionally that trend is broken by someone going counter to human nature or the prevailing sentiment of the in group. Jesus was just such a person. He lived that counter movement. He told stories of that counter movement. He made people uncomfortable by by what he said and did along these lines. He invited people to follow him and do as he did. Seek out and save those on the margins. Be open to new and different opportunities to live that mission. Like it or not, LGBTIQQAA is one of our generation's opportunities.

​I think my cheeky humor is lost on some. It is okay and besides... ​I was referring to the Church being JESUS to All .. not Heaven! (well ..The Church being Heaven to all) and as I said AMEN to one sinner who repents. If I was talking about a Parade in Heaven..I wouldn't limit to one color! O Heavens No!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the ONE who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne. Rev 4:3

​Nay, my friend, there's more than an Orange Parade in heaven when one gay or lesbian sinner or ANY sinner repents!

Just a question,more curious than anything else. One on one how far would you be willing to go to support my husband and myself?On a large scale that is what the taxpayer does for those on welfare. I do think you would be one to help someone in need,but how far. Due to my husband's health issues he was forced into retirement before we were ready. Happens to a lot of people. Knowing I am perfectly capable of earning a income and thankfully I can do it from home would you expect me to continue to help ourselves? It is not always easy. It can get pretty tedious. So if I use "I can't '" as excuse how long would you be willing to carry my husband and myself. What if I continue to demand from you while I sunbathe or snowmobile,after all I am poor. Take your hard earned money and purchase junk for my children to eat,it takes an effort to learn to cook tastefully and economically. But as long as you keep giving me I don't have to. Those that would expect me to are labeled haters of the poor. Those that are elderly and handicapped manning our food shelf owe me their time,after all I am young and poor. Probably can throw a child or two in there that I shouldn't have had to begin with. If welfare weren't as lucrative without effort as it is people wouldn't be so adverse to work. Welfare should be temporary help with the recipient doing everything possible to help themselves. But that has been labeled as hate.