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The greatest gift I have as a father, is a woman who loves me in spite of the fact that I haven't been the greatest father, to put it mildly. God is Love! Jesus saves!

We have a choice of using the world's standard behavior, making sure everyone else does their fair share of subduing prejudice, or we can ensure, as each Christian would be advised is best to do, make sure as a responsible individual to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. God is Love! Jesus saves!

Some will tell you that this is an elite group. For example: JW lore will try to twist the scripture that there is an elite heavenly class and a common earthly class according to the 144,000. Dispensationalists and Christian Zionists will twist the scripture by claiming that there are two classes of people composed of Jews and non Jews. The reason I say "twist" the scriptures is because the common thread spun by both of these camps is one of elitism of different groups of faith. The text is trying to communicate relationship-not elitism. There has only been one covenant community, one faith and one church connected by the cross. One church of faith on one side of the cross that went through the cross and out the other side. One church that looked forward to Jesus, and the church that looks back at the first Advent. One church. In revelation, John is given a description of a Lion, and looks and sees a Lamb. In the same manner John is given the description of 144,000 and then looks and sees a great multitude. Like the Lamb and the Lion, this is a different vantage point of the same entity. One vision is that of Jesus and the other vision is the full compliment of the people of God-not an elite group. We dont claim that the Lion and the Lamb are to different entities, and neither is the 144,000 and the great multitude. Revelation 21 picks up on this theme of the whole compliment of the assembly of God before the cross and after the cross “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. The description is of the church before the cross, the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles who symbolize true Covenant Israel going out to the world not contained by borders of culture-the whole compliment of the people of God. The rest of Chapter 21 carry this pattern further: 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia[c] in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits[d] thick.[e] As for the 144,000 of great multiutude being only men, or virgins, this also is about relationship-not literal Jewish men or virgins Revelation has the thread of the exodus spun through it. Moses was foretold that there would be others raised up like himself, and one would be greater than himself-they should listen to Him. Harlot Israel did not listen to both Moses not Jesus, but faithful Israel did listen to both. In the exodus, unfaithful Israel made themselves a golden bull/beast. Those who were faithful to Moses/God stood beside him. In the same manner faithful Israel stand beside the Lamb. Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. In the Exodus, those who were unfiathful had judgment poured out on them, and this is the thrust of Revelation-judgment was coming soon on unfaithful Israel depicted as a harlot. This is a very quick summary, but please stay in the text and dont let others gather you around themselves by their own speculations and imagination-they have been 100 percent wrong 100 percent of the time

Going on my "merry way", is your way of saying that I disagree with YOUR INTERPRETATION of a passage of Scripture. Jackson, we need to find more courteous ways of simply saying, "I disagree with your interpretation". You can say WHY you disagree with my interpretation. But the Scripture passages you cite as "proofs" are STILL mostly subject to INTERPRETATION. Saying that the other person is "denying Scripture" or "not using Scripture", is NOT A GOOD argument. It is a personal slur. Everyone wants absolute certainty. Most Adventists feel comfortable, thinking they have that certainty of interpretation because they have Ellen White. I used to feel that certainty also. But I came to question Mrs. White's "gift" for many reasons. That left me much less certain, but it also left open the possibility of greater or wider understandings. Many times, on this forum, when I've said everything I have to say on a topic, and I'm just repeating myself - I have dropped out of a discussion. It becomes obvious that no other "proofs" can be shared, or arguments put forward at that point in time. Maybe I just need more time for study. Maybe the other person will come up with different "proofs". The folks reading our arguments must judge for themselves which arguments they find stronger. We cannot force them into a viewpoint or doctrine. You feel you must counter my arguments with traditional Adventist interpretation. THAT's JUST FINE. I wouldn't expect anything less. But don't imply that I'm "going on my merry (ignorant) way" when I disagree with you.

Thanks, I did. I was telling my grandson that me and his father were having father's day today. He thinks about that for a minute and than says " there are 4 fathers in the house at the moment." So I say to him, how do you mean that? So he points to me, his father and than he points to himself and his brother. He figures since he and his brother are also male, they most also be fathers. We all had a great laugh. He has a great sense of humor.

Even if an incredible number of people were caught up in the revival spirit and were baptized, how many usually stay in the SDA church after baptism? I have been involved with many large traditional evangelistic efforts where hundreds were baptized; but after a year or two very few people remained as active SDA's. That being said, most just "move on" to another Christian denomination rather than give up on Jesus. With this in mind, should our evangelistic efforts be put towards bringing saints to Christ or bringing them to the SDA denomination? I think it's the former. My personal experience also leads me to believe that our efforts as individuals to bring people to Christ yield more lasting converts than corporate efforts. Many traditional evangelistic outreaches are big fancy "entertaining" events. Then when the evangelistic team leaves, people find out that most SDA congregations aren't that different from other conservative denominations - dull, dry and repetitive (by the standards of the world); with lots of veteran members making sure that new folks tow the line - reminding them of their sins of smoking, drinking, jewelry, immodest dress, women wearing pants, and the evils of cheese and animal flesh. The newbies go elsewhere because they feel judged. This is NOT the case with all SDA congregations, but in my experience, it has been the norm (at least in the U.S.).

QUESTION: If martyrs for the name of Jesus, come to life and reign with Him as "kings and priests" for 1000 years, HOW could this 1000 years have begun back when Jesus was raised from the dead? There WERE NO MARTYRS for the name of Jesus BEFORE His death and resurrection.

STOP IT Jackson! This is NOT A CONTEST !!! When someone raises a question, I do not (most of the time) have an immediate answer. I need to think about it, and pray about it. You just said, "ONLY THE BLESSED are raised at the first resurrection. But I know that you believe those who crucified Christ will also be raised in a "special resurrection". So you might need to reconsider the word "only". I just believe that FAR MORE THAN the 68 men from a council at Jerusalem, "crucified Him". NIV Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-- everyone whose name is found written in the book-- will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. MULTITUDES will awake from their sleep in the dust. "Some" are raised to everlasting life. AND "others" are raised to "shame and everlasting contempt". No one recovers from "everlasting contempt" - so the end of these people is sealed. They will go to the "lake of fire". I personally see no point in raising them AGAIN, to judge them AGAIN. We all remember what Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" - the way to life. That would make me think that those raised to everlasting life, will be the minority from the "multitudes" that are raised on that day.

While I think there ought to be gun control, that disarms the average American that has no ill-will towards anyone and are in their right mind and has the ability to determine when and where to pull that trigger. It will be only another excuse to withdraw our rights as American citizens. And yes, soon our rights to assemble together to worship on the Sabbath will be also outlawed, bringing in the law that we MUST worship on Sundays.

His article is well researched and insightful Unfortunately at this stage I am not sure how many people will thoughtfully consider his line of reasoning. Liked the James White quotes on "man" obviously generally meaning male and female in the Bible.