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I submit that if we do not have this vote now it will only serve to farther divide the church. Lines have been drawn alliances made, whichever way it goes there will be hostile people. There will also be God's children who understand that our purpose is to be servants and spread the message. Those truly committed will continue whatever the outcome! Women have been preaching and ministering since Bible times.

Richard, sorry to hear this sad news about Mr. Murphy. Our dogs (and other animals for that matter) are family. Losing a member of the family is hard.

You need to change what you feed your mind, my friend. Your confusion mirrors the confusion of those you're listening to. Take some time out in nature, in silence, alone, and just listen. Inhale some calmness and peace.

I love sharing them. Thank you for looking PK. I will go and pick him up tomorrow. I had him cremated. His ashes will be in a nice polished rosewood box, with his name "Mr. Murphy Holbrook" engraved on the plate. Also it will have his dates: June 7, 2004 - June 28, 2015. And they made a paw print for me on an index card. For a little extra money they cremated him by himself so that his are the only ashes I will get. : )

June 27, 2015 To The SDA Church, RE: General Conference being held in Texas I have been observing the church for 5 years through the controversies and have come to a conclusion that I would like to share with you: The major issues that you are voting on are moot points right now. They are distractions from the true salvation of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. For example. The ordination of women. If they are or aren’t being ordained is irrelevant. If people follow women as leaders, and believe wholeheartedly that they are doing the will of God then let them, the Holy Spirit will convict them of their wrong path. Church salvation starts with self, and by focusing on these issues, we are crippling our walk with Christ as a church. After 7 years of practicing the 12 steps in my life, I have realized how unsuccessful, unreal, and disconnected my idea of salvation was. I became whole through clearing away my addictions (sins we cannot let go of), and realized that when our sides of the street are cleared, God enters your life in a manner that allows you to see clearly what is truly going on around you, and you find focus in the things that really matter, and that is making yourself right with God and to strengthen your faith and love in Him. Theoretically, if you were to see that the world were to end in two years, would you look back and say, well at least we dealt with the issue of ordination? Or would you look back and say, what did I do to ensure that people had the tools to release themselves of the bondage of sin and spiritual darkness? Please give light to the NAD’s 12 step group taken from Steps to Christ and rebuilt this church on a firm foundation and we can meet these issues when we are healthy as a church. Anne Isaac Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

I really, really, really wish that alleged Christians would not resort to propagating bald-faced lies. The Supreme Court of Canada did not, and I emphasize did not, hold that "Biblical Speech opposing Homosexual Behaviour is a Hate Crime."

Exactly. People are at different stages of spiritual development. It just may be that you have as much to learn from others as you believe they have to learn from you. This forum is a dialogue between people of differing understandings.

As Kevin has pointed out, more time is not the answer. The Church has been playing kick the can down the road on this issue for well over 100 years. The Church has missed multiple opportunities to resolve this issue already as the result of those calling for more time. A number of those opportunities came at times when there was enough support for WO to have passed it. And the suggestion for more education on the matter has only resulted in efforts to bury the issue and educational resources and opportunities and frustrate efforts to move forward. It has been an endless cycle of delay until those who are well informed on the issue are dead and gone so that when the issue comes up again it is starting over again as if the issue is new and never addressed before. My impression is that it is those with their minds firmly made up in opposition to WO that are the source of the overwhelming majority of those calling for more time, or insisting the people within their territories need more time to study and more information or any number of efforts to delay or change the subject. Obviously those convinced of the propriety of recognizing women as full participants in the gospel ministry are not asking for more time. What is disturbing is that in many areas of the Church, leadership opposed to WO make no real effort to actually educate the membership on the issue in an honest and balance way, if at all. It is far from a priority. And it seems a bit disingenuous for those who have failed to provide education for the people to call for more time when they have not taken the time they have been urged to take in the last few years. The time is now. We cannot afford to bury another generation and be forced to start over yet again.

Great pictures Richard, thanks for sharing

How can I make it not merge my replies?

Always helpful to see resources compiled in one place - http://session.adventistfaith.org (Realizing this site has been previously posted, but buried in the pile of topics and posts...)

http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story2876-what-u.s.-same-sex-ruling-means-for-adventists

I don't even know where to begin to be honest. I'm just losing faith in the church. I want to leave so desperately, but I know that it's God's end times church. Everyone wants to focus on everyone else, and not on their own journey with Christ. I'm just so frustrated that there is so much chaos and division in a place that is supposed to be unified. If Alcoholics Anonymous was like the church, noone would ever stay sober. I see the world falling apart outside and noone will even talk about it. Not one person has made the connection that Ellen G White has said that the pope would use climate change to bring about Sunday law, and how he is coming to America in September to talk about climate change because of moral decline. I mean... This is the last post I am going to make, the last letter I am ever going to write, and the last plea I will make to turn people around. I just can't do it anymore. Can someone tell me it will be ok, and that this inter-political nonsense is going to end. It's like everyone is falling into a trap that keeps them in an intellectual state of mind rather than a spiritual one. .......Frustrated

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/02/political-correctness-101-praising-america-virtues-hard-work-dubbed-micro/?intcmp=latestnews What will they think of next?!

Praying

To those who try to silence this movement with delay and diversionary efforts to change the subject, the wisdom of Gamaliel from Acts 5:38-39 always comes to my mind - "For if this counsel or this work is of men, it will be overthrown. But if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow it, and you would be found even to be fighting against God!"

Below are extracts from the Whatcott decision, paragraphs 192 and 199. [192] In the instant case, Flyers D and E expressly call for discriminatory treatment of those of same-sex orientation. Flyer D urges that the rights of homosexuals and lesbians should be reduced by stating: “We also believe that for sodomites and lesbians who want to remain in their lifestyle and proselytize vulnerable young people that civil law should discriminate against them” (emphasis added). Flyer E urges: “Our acceptance of homosexuality and our toleration of its promotion in our school system will lead to the early death and morbidity of many children” (emphasis added). Mr. Whatcott therefore combined expression exposing homosexuals to hatred with expression promoting their discriminatory treatment. In my view, it was not unreasonable for the Tribunal to conclude that this expression was more likely than not to expose homosexuals to hatred. [Note: the "emphasis added" was added by the court, not I.] [199] ... The biblical passage, in and of itself, cannot be taken as inspiring detestation and vilification of homosexuals. While use of the Bible as a credible authority for a hateful proposition has been considered a hallmark of hatred, it would only be unusual circumstances and context that could transform a simple reading or publication of a religion’s holy text into what could objectively be viewed as hate speech. The flyers referred to in paragraph 192 were held to be "hate speech" under the Saskatchewan provincial legislation (not a hate crime - criminal charges can only be brought under federal legislation). The flyers referred to in paragraph 199 (those referencing Matthew 18:6) were held not to be hate speech. And while Flyers D and E, the ones held to have been "hate speech" did contain biblical references, it was not the Bible passages that were considered hateful. This is not to say that the decision ought not to be criticized, but falsely exaggerating and misrepresenting what the court ruled and decided is not a rhetorical tactic in which Christians should be indulging. Revelation 21:8 contains a few words about liars.

You have been given a plethora of good advice. I do believe the most important issue you appear to be facing is those with whom you are dialoging. GIGO ... sure we have issues to be dealt with, so what. Life is filled with issues. It will become even more so before our Lord returns. When we see these things happening in our church, world and personal lives we should take heart because they are indicators that the return of our Creator is drawing closer. The church can't save you, but it can be there to give you courage and a shelter. One day soon we may not be able to gather together in public worship ... let's gleam as much strength from those true Christians and from our Bibles today as possible. Soon we may not have that opportunity. FYI Focus Your faith in God and His holy Word ... not the church.

It's OK to lose your faith in a denomination; or religion in general. We are not saved by a denomination or religious affiliation; we are saved by the sacrifice and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Place your trust in Him; not a denomination or affliation. Yes - corporate worship is an important part of our spiritual life - but it does not give life. Only God does that. You see the world falling apart? Good for you - you are showing discenment! You are seeing that the end is near! Now is NOT the time to give up on God - it is time for revival! It is time to decide whether to succomb to the power of this earth or reconsecrate to the King of the Universe! Believers now have a choice to make - will I turn my back on Jesus and fall to the powers of earth (possibly including organized religion); or will I rest in my belief that Jesus did indeed do a good enough job at Cavalry to secure my redemtion; and let Him worry about supernaturally protecting us from supernatural persecution and harassment. Our job is to rest in Him; and not resist His leading. Blessings to you, Brother! You may think what you are facing is impossible; but all things are possible through King Jesus!

Ditto! God is Love! Jesus saves! I'm somewhat of the opinion of aisaac070 last post. I also have listened to certain woman in the Adventist church who handle the Word with the power of the Spirit and see no reason the Spirits' ordination needs improvement. God is Love! Jesus saves!

People come here from who knows where. Many of them have obvious axes to grind against the sda church.

In many ways I agree with you aisaac070, however this decision for a deferral has been the church's stand for well over 100 years. In the first decade of the 1900s there were conferences and unions that decided to ordain women. General Conference President A. G. Daniels agreed with them that they should ordain women but asked them to wait just a little bit while members who thought that the Bible was against women's ordination could be educated. Then every time the issue came up again it's been deferred saying that it should be done but this is not the time. The Anti- ordination people want the ignorance that Elder Daniels asked for some time to fight against to become the standard. How long should it be deferred until we start doing it?

I remember some of those photos from before. I'm glad you figured out how to post them! Well done! :) I hope that you will be able to spend some time here. You have been missed!

Thank you Naomi. Towards the end, about 2 weeks ago I was leaving to go to work, and had decided to leave him outside in the pen, since Carroll was out of state. I saw that there was a cat sitting in the pen with him keeping him company, and he was perfectly ok with it.

June 26, 2015 Statement on Supreme Court Decision on Same-Sex Marriage The U.S. Supreme Court on Friday, June 26, released its decision legalizing same-sex marriage across the United States. Even with the Supreme Court’s decision, the Seventh-day Adventist Church maintains its fundamental belief that marriage was divinely established in Eden and affirmed by Jesus to be a lifelong union between a man and a woman. While the church respects the opinions of those who may differ, it will continue to teach and promote its biblically based belief of marriage between a man and a woman. The Seventh-day Adventist Church believes that all people, regardless of race, gender, and sexual orientation are God’s children and should be treated with civility, compassion, and Christ-like love. More information on the Adventist Church’s belief on marriage can be found athttp://www.adventist.org/information/official-statements/statements/article/go/0/marriage/30/ follow on Twitter | friend on Facebook | forward to a friend read or subscribe to NewsPoints online

Great pictures Richard. Thank you for sharing. Blessings to you

Wow. This topic exploded. I was wondering if anyone would even be interested in it. How many people here have actually researched the beginnings of socialism? What did its authors design it to be? What type of government did they see it as? I've done some research into this. The original authors of socialism saw it as a very totalitarian form of government. In fact, they saw it as the "cure" for the French Revolution. Now, if you compare the French and American Revolutions you will see the main difference in philosophy being that the framers of the US saw God as an integral part of both the country and the government. The Frenchmen did exactly the opposite. They completely eliminated God from government. The founders of socialism saw it as the cure for French "democracy", which was democracy in name only, and they made the same mistake the authors of the French Revolution made. They completely ignored God. They wanted Him to have nothing to do with it. And, they also saw the people who resisted socialism as being treated as animals by their own government. (I have a quote for this as I'm sure some people will not like this but I don't have the book with me right now.) Max Eastman was the first editor of "The Masses" socialist magazine. When he graduated from college here in the US he was a very strong socialist. Then he went to Russia during the Stalin years. By the time he left there he had plainly stated that "Stalinism is socialism". I think it is wise to listen to a man like this who was indoctrinated into socialism during his college years and so grew to dislike it after seeing it put into practice that he rejected it completely. Friedrich Hayek, who was a contemporary of the authors of socialism, says that who say there is a democratic socialism might as well be saying there is a democratic totalitarianism. Obviously this just cannot be. They are poles apart. In fact, facism and socialism have much more in common than do a democratic form of government and socialism. I have more on this but don't have the time to post more right now. What I'll do is show how the Germans "perfected" the ideas of socialism and how the growth of this political idea in Germany had a lot to do with the rise of Nazism before WWII. This is scary stuff people. Very scary stuff. Once you give up your liberty it costs blood to get it back. Just one more quick note. Take a look at what is happening in the Western democracies right now. The same mistake the French made is being made all over again. God is being eliminated from both government and societies. And socialism is gaining main stream acceptance. See any parallels? I do.

Here's a video someone posted on FB: https://www.facebook.com/AskDrBrown/videos/1188501104508823/ ps:if this shouldn't be posted here, please move.

This is a very serious condition and the fact that you grow angry and threaten to walk away from God. You might, some day, if you keep saying that you will. What is your life like? You don't need to tell me, but consider it, and pray about it. Have you given the devil an avenue into your home, your life, your mind? What kind of music do you listen to? What do you watch on TV? How closely and carefully are you following the health counsel in diet that God actually gave us through His messengers? How do you respond to stress? No need to answer me. Talk to God about these things. I can honestly say that I have some experience in these things, and I do believe it is a form of possession, and that other factors may be involved as well. The devil can't possess you, unless you let him. He can still torment you, though, but you can give these things to God. It takes a lot of changes, but I believe it can be overcome. And if you have a chemical imbalance, you may need the medication, too. I'm certainly no expert on these things, but I know for sure this is a time when you need to lean more closely on God. If you get angry with Him, instead of threatening to leave Him, go to Him. Pray. In private, present your questions. Look for answers in Scripture, in Spirit of Prophecy. Get rid of any avenue for the devil to enter into your home: fiction, drama, movies, most music (rock and roll, even contemporary Christian). Try to think positively, pray, have your morning devotions, drink herbal tea. Refocus your thinking. Say aloud things that you are thankful for. You will need help with these things. Don't try to do it alone. Don't stress so much about avoiding stress that you get stressed out over it...See the beauty in life. Go out in nature. The enemy of souls wants to destroy you, but the Lord will help you. “God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.” Psalms 46:1 And yes, God is stronger, and has already overcome. (John 16:33) I'll be praying for you. Please don't think that I am pointing an accusing finger, nor that I am trying to tell you not to take your medication. My intention is not to judge you, nor to play the doctor, but to help with what advice that I can give. I do believe that we can overcome these things through the Lord's help. "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." (Philippians 4:13, KJV

Exactly Naomi. For those that don't believe that God is in control, I just have to shake my head.

Thank you so much Pam, LHC, PK, Stan, Gail, Naomi, AlienSanctuary, Henry, and Kevin H. I'm sure I left someone out. I can't tell you how grateful I am to know people like you. It is truly a blessing.

I will not leave (any more than I have already left) the denomination. Denominational affiliation doesn't mean that much to me. For me, the annointing of the Holy Spirit - not the approval of a denomination - will determine whom I allow to influence my spiritual education. A church-appointed pastor (male or female) holds less sway with me than one who has demonstrated the covering of the Holy Spirit over thier ministry. I will always remain a "cultural" SDA because of my commitment to the main tenets of the faith contained in our name - the Sabbath and the soon-coming of our Lord King Jesus.

JoeMo, your last paragraph is quite telling. This global economic state is coming from American corporations and rather than Islam conquering us, they too will have to submit to the growing economic pressures. It is this economic system that is the 7th head. It is different from the others that it does not get power from the sward but from people joining for the peace and economic advantages of joining.

We don't need to abandon it, however we need to modify it as we have learned more. Apparently the original application comes from the name Nimrod and the number is a symbol of his rebellion. Then Nero depending on if he wrote his full name or the abbreviation came out to either 666 or 616 (both numbers we find in ancient manuscripts.) If I recall correctly Nero was the 6th Emperor (counting Julius Caesar) and a horrible monster for persecution. When he died there was a reprieve in the horrible persecution but the spirit of Nero was healed under the persecution of Domitian. We find the same spirit in say the inquisition and other persecutions from the papacy. So we can apply 666 to the papacy but it is not the only application. Their are many antichrists, the beast in Revelation is the composite of all of these. The French Revolution, communist persecution and the fundamentalist Islam persecutions are among them. Anything that replaces Christ in our life is a part of the beast. The 7 heads are the 7 great periods of Babylon, Medio-persia, Greece, Rome, Holy Roman Empire (including Papal Supremacy), the deadly wound and the deadly wound being healed: including the healing of the 666 Nimrod rebellion and 666 Nero-Domitian-Papal persecution.

Rev 13 17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. 1. It does not say "it is 3 sixes" it says "six hundred and sixty-six" 2. it is a "number of a man" 3. it is "the number of his name" 4. it has to be calculated. 5. The Romans already had this system since they already were using letters that were also numbers in their own numbering system. 6. John lived at the time of the Roman Empire - all of his readers would have been familiar with this system of numbering names.

Wow! Even pig-eaters! Well, I know some cows that say we should eat more chicken. If I were to give my opinion of the biggest sinners in that group list above, it would be gossips. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. Proverbs has a lot to say about tale-bearers. Ezekiel 28:16 states that Lucifer's merchandise resulted in him being filled with violence and sinning. What was Lucifer selling? Since we know he is the father of lies and the accuser of the brethren,,, perhaps what he was selling was a juicy story. So gossip could be one of the original sins right next to pride. Most certainly, it has little to do with love.

Didn't Ellen's death before the time of trouble began remove her from consideration?

Just imagine, if we had the unconditional love to others as dogs do to us.

'Socialism', in the broadest definition, is the idea that society exists and that we have some responsibility for others, not just for ourselves. That is often understood in relation to governments having an active role in sharing that responsibility. The Bible definitely strongly supports the first concept - responsibility for others, particularly the vulnerable. Many Christians say it should do that through charity rather than through government, and it's great when it's done, but when the political system is set up in such a way to actively undo the results of charity, I think there's a responsibility to also challenge that. Perhaps, too, as Naomi has indicated, many see charity itself as a problem - at least incoming if not outgoing. In practice, as I said earlier, everyone contributing here thinks government should have some role. No one is calling for anarchy. What that role should be, and how it should be shared between the federal, state and local levels is what we are largely discussing here.

I'm pleased to see our church proclaim where it stands on this issue.