Leaderboard

Elsewhere a question was asked regarding what to do about a non-SDA family member whose actions are not in line with mainstream Adventism. I'd like to pursue that topic a bit. When I was growing up, the only SDAs in my family were my mom, my brother, and me. Other relatives were Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Mennonite, or Lutheran. Some claimed no religion. There were often times when heavy alcohol drinking, smoking, and whatnot was done when we visited. However, the only time any of the three of us said anything was to my grandparents who both smoked...and then it was only me and my brother who spoke up. Mind you, we were probably 7 and 8 yrs old, but we told them they shouldn't smoke. Grandpa quit, but Grandma "sneaked" smokes, though she didn't smoke nearly as much. As far as drinking, "unclean food," or bad language, etc, went, none of us said anything. We were visitors, guests in a home .... and as such, it was not up to us to condemn them for their choices. I still don't think it's right or proper to tell anyone what they should do in a host's home. Maybe we missed a chance to "witness," but such would do no good if it alienated family members. And a person would get a reputation as a poor house guest... imho...

I absolutely would attend a wedding (or a funeral) on Sabbath. Sabbath is meant to be a day of fellowship with God, family, and community. IMHO, if someone important to me is celebrating an important life event, it is legalism to use the Sabbath as an excuse not to participate. But that's just me. In a previous life, I was a "Taliban" Adventist, rebuking my family for going to church on Sunday, Eating ham at Easter, drinking, smoking, etc. Didn't help family relations. Just stopping the rebuking changed everything. People "know" to go outside and smoke almost everywhere now - whether at church or a non-believer's house. If things get unsavory where I am visiting, I can be like Naomi and "remember" something urgent that needs to be taken care of right away; or develop sudden gastrointestinal distress and go in the bathroom until the unsavoriness passes..

The difference between a smoker and a gossiper is that you can smell the smoker. When in my home I expect those who wish to smoke, etc to go to the deck .... when I am a guest in their home, if I don't feel comfortable with the activities I can find polite, respectful reasons to go to their deck or leave to take care of some unforeseen personal issues. In my home, If the language becomes colorful or jokes inappropriate (which is rare) I will laugh and say, "I can't believe my ears" or "Wow, I am too young for this crowd" ..... Actions speak louder than words!! I really haven't ran into any issues with doing things unacceptable to my beliefs on my Sabbath. There have been times when in the planning stage that have respectfully declined due to prior commitments .... activities at church ... Sabbath afternoon nap time (hehehe) Would you attend a wedding on the Sabbath????

I can't ever remember a relative even remotely suggesting that my religion caused a crimp in their plans. But then, I can't think of anything they had planned that would somehow be wrong to do on the Sabbath..

I've never found EGW to contradict Scripture. She has blown away false interpretations and clarified things that were not well understood. But I have also seen folks misinterpret her clear statements or prefer their views to hers.

The last 7 wrath plagues BEGIN under the 7th Trumpet. The "two witnesses" testify and are persecuted for 42 months (Rev. Cpt 11). Then they are killed. Three and a half days later, they are resurrected, and the voice of God calls them up to Heaven. Revelation 11:14 "And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, 'Come up here.' And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them." AND the 7th Trumpet sounds. And a voice says "the second woe is past". The third "woe" would be the vial wrath plagues under the 7th trumpet. It looks to me - like the witnesses are in heaven, during that 3rd woe.

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob's trouble, But he shall be saved out of it. (NKJ) The "time of Jacob's trouble" will be the "time, times, and a part" (1260 days, 42 months) during which the saints are "given into his hand" (Dan. 7:25) That time ENDs with the pronouncement of the Heavenly Court, giving dominion to Christ and His saints. The START of this time period is: "they shall take away the daily, and place there the abomination of desolation". (Dan. 11:31). This is when "the people who know their God shall be strong and carry out great exploits" And those of the people who understand shall instruct many, yet for many days they shall fall by sword, and flame, by captivity and plundering" (Dan 11:32-33). Daniel 12:7 "it shall be for a time, times, and half a time, and WHEN the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished." "Completely shattered" sounds like "great tribulation" to me. The "great multitude" of Revelation 7:9-15 are said to be "the ones who come out of the great tribulation". I don't think this means that all of these people went through the last 1260 days. I think that is the time frame, of their deliverance. They will be resurrected, or translated at the END of the "great tribulation period". That's the same in Daniel 12:1-3. In Daniel 12:1 Michael stands up, or "will arise". Michael has been sitting at the right hand of the Father. He rises to go into the Court scene of Daniel 7:9-10. I think it possible that the time of the Court meeting in Heaven, parallels the last 1260 days on earth, during which the "saints" are severely persecuted. WHEN the "kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ" (Rev 11:15), which HAPPENS at the 7th Trumpet, (and the conclusion of the Heavenly Court scene in Daniel) THEN the 24 elders say, "Your wrath has come". "Your wrath" would be the 7 last vial plagues. It is also TIME to "reward Your servants" and to "destroy those who destroy the earth" (Rev. 11:15-18). The wrath plagues destroy them, along with the earth.

Could you please provide a scripture referece for this? I couldn't find any references for it. I'm thinking it was "profesied" by EGW over 125 years ago. If so, I would consider a "forecast" rather than a "prophecy". If there is any day all 3 faiths will keep, it will be Friday if you want to keep your head attached to your body - especially if you live in the Middle east.

In the SOP is a comment that God does not tell anyone all that he might about their sin condition. There is not anyone who knows all that there is to know about the total truth about themselves. we are so vulnerable to demanding a higher standard in those around us than we hold to ourselves. Somehow, since we are doing everything we know is truth, we just know when those around us are doing or not doing what they know is true. It is the presentation of the Character of God that brings the world to stumble, not an elucidation of the sins of humanity. We are all already swimming in the sea of humanity. Jesus walked on the sea, and only when we have our eyes fixed on him will we walk above our humanity and the humanity of others. Sin was condemned in the presence of jesus, by the power of the Spirit. Sin was condemned in Jesus when he died the death of the sinner. When Jesus is in our hearts we experience the condemnation of our sin, so we can live in Him. if we do not look away from what we do, and what others do, and just look to what Jesus has done and is doing for us all, the rock will fall on us and crush us. There is never a time on this earth when what we are and what we do will pass the inspecting eye of God and hold us up without the sustaining power and grace of the Holy Spirit and angels. God is merciful and gracious in all that he does. Ps 147. Even though Noah followed all the instruction in building the ark, all the right materials, and specific building plans... if the angels had not held the ark together it would have still failed in the turbulence of the flood storm. Whoever we are, whatever we do or have done... the question is do we lay it all down at the foot of the cross. Do we cast down all that we know we are are and all that we do, and pray that only Christ will be lifted up in us. Paul said" i am determined to know nothing among you but Jesus and Him crucified", and 2 Corinthians 5:14-17 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Jesus only spoke out against the sins of those who claimed to be righteous while pointing out the sins of individuals, and who dealt out condemnation and rejection denying others access to the blessings of the temple because of their "sins". There were those who welcomed the unspoken profound condemnation of their sin who loved to live in His presence.

Long article... It may appear that Christianity will disappear in the Middle East; and indeed the beast power and antichrist will wear out the saints; but they won't wipe out the church. The story spoke of Christians forming alliances with Islam. Eventually, Jews may do the same, just to survive. Could this be the adultery that the harlot on the beast commits with the kings of the world? BTW, I don't see the pope exterminating the church in the Middle East. It appears to be Islam that is doing it. Does the church need to review it's position on who the beast and antichrist powers are?

I am sure that that is a difficult situation for you. I can only speak from experience about half of my relatives are not SDA. Most are Catholics. At times in the past there have been times when I would respectfully decline and explain that it is my Sabbath but I would be happy to join them around 6 or 7 or 8 (when ever sundown occurs). If they attempted to persuade me I would just smile and say something off the wall about it being really nice for my company to be desired but seriously NO thanks.

Very good questions Pam, I agree. Our biggest witness that we can give to others is out behavior. I would say that if asked why we don't do certain things, than we can speak up and say what we believe and leave it at that. Must relatives, friends, etc., will have much more respect for what we believe it we actually walk the talk

And of course we don't want to kill any. But we don't want to be killed by them either.

On the other hand, God tells the church of Thyatira in Rev. 2:24 "Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, 25 except to hold on to what you have until I come.’" To the church in Philidelphia, He says in Rev. 3:10 "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep youfrom the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth." John says says in Rev 14:14-16 that "I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man[b] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvestof the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested." This happens chronologically right before the 7 bowls of God's wrath fall on the earth. Paul says in Romans 5:9 "Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!" Again in 1 Thessalonians 1:10, he says "wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath." Again in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 he says "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. What wrath might Paul be talking about? The seven bowls! But Paul implies that the church is either raptured or otherwise protected just prior to the seven bowls falling. The antichrist is also established prior to the seven bowls. I can't see it any other way.

Yeah, I have a big section of fence in my back yard to replace that was torn down by bears! I wouldn't really want to shoot one though. I have had deer, raccoons, groundhogs, and an assortment of other rodents in my yard. Kinda different than the big city!

Some of us live where our neighbors are bears, coydogs etc.

Being a poor house guest would not be witnessing. Be a good 'witness' is more about who we are vs what we say.

I am guessing that legally the Pastor was allowed to shoot him in self defence and that is why they suggest no charges are likely? Not a good situation for anyone to be in, if you command someone to stop as suggested and the person continues and you have no idea if they are armed or not, what do you do? - In this case draw your side arm and fire. - then lead the chap to Christ with a sinners prayer..

There is an inspired quote from EGW that says it will not happen. That is good enough for me.

NKJ Leviticus 21:9 `The daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by playing the harlot, she profanes her father. She shall be burned with fire. (Lev 21:9 NKJ) And what happens to the harlot of Revelation? The ten kings turn on her, and "burn her with fire". Isaiah 1:21 "How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers." (KJV)

No - It will NOT be God who resurrects a Temple in Jerusalem. It will be the current nation of Israel. The Antichrist will make use of that Temple, to deceive. He will make a covenant with many for one week (Daniel 9:27). But in the midst of the week, he will take away the daily burnt offering, and place there the abomination that causes desolation. "He" would be the "little horn" (false prophet), who speaks for the Beast power. Daniel 11:31 “Forces sent by him shall occupy and profane the Temple and fortress. They shall abolish the regular burnt offering and set up the abomination that makes desolate.” (NRS) NOTE: In this passage, the one who will abolish the regular burnt offering, is ALSO the one who will set up the abomination of desolation. The abomination of desolation is set up in place of the regular (continual or "daily") burnt offering. KJV Daniel 11:45 "And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him." The Little Horn Antichrist will set himself up in the Temple, on the Mount.

What would the response be if this were a SDA Pastor Pastor Shoots an Intruder at Texas Church By Tracy Clemons Tuesday, July 28, 2015 05:25PM BAYTOWN, TX (KTRK) --A would-be burglar messed with the wrong church and pastor Tuesday. Baytown police say the man kicked in the door of the Church of New Beginnings early and attempted to rob it. "We have church break-ins here in the city of Baytown," said Pat Holmes. "But ours had never been broken into. Unfortunately today was the day." Around 6:15, police say a man broke into the Church of New Beginnings on North Alexander. Surveillance video shows the man breaking through the door. Little did he know that Pastor Benny Holmes was sleeping inside, and that he was strapped. PHOTOS: Police respond to shooting at Baytown church Baytown police responded to a shooting at the Church of New Beginnings. Police say the pastor armed himself and shot an intruder. KTRK Photo "I just want the public to know that this was a robbery," Pastor Holmes told Eyewitness News exclusively. "He broke in the door, had laptops in his hand." Pastor Holmes said he woke up when he heard someone moving around in the church and grabbed his gun. "I commanded him to stop twice, and he didn't. So fearing for my life, I did what I had to do." And that was shoot. Baytown Police say Holmes shot the man in the right shoulder. They identified him as 27-year old Lee Marvin Blue Jr. This is the second time Pastor Holmes has made headlines for stopping a would-be crook. In September, he caught a 52-year-old woman who had allegedly been stealing UPS packages off of porches in the area. She was trying to steal from his front porch, and he held her at gunpoint until police arrived to arrest her. What could be considered the most surprising part of what happened this time around may be what happened while Blue was lying on the ground in his own blood. "I led him through the sinner's prayer while he was on the floor," Pastor Holmes says. "He repeated the sinner's prayer after me. And that was about it. I'm going to go visit him." Blue has an extensive criminal history dating back to 2005. It includes trespassing, burglary of a vehicle, and assault, just to name a few. He was taken by Life Flight to Memorial Hermann Hospital with non-life threatening injuries. He is charged with burglary of a building. Baytown police do not anticipate charges against Pastor Benny Holmes.

Mile High Skydiving has been in business for many years in Colorado. A group of home owners decided that Mile High airplanes made more noise than they wanted. [NOTE: They all lived near t he airport.] So, they filed a lawsuit against Mile High, loosely calling themselves Citizens for Quiet Skies in 2013. The judge issued a summary judgment in favor of Mile High for all alleged claims except for the claim of negligence. That went to trial. In the summary judgment, the judge awarded Mile High a sum just under $68,000 for damages--attorney fees. At trial the judge ruled for Mile High in regard to negligence. Citizens then announced that they would appeal and Mile High requested attorney fees, of some $58,000 plus.) for defending the charge of negligence. Tuesday the judge awarded Mile High a bit under $48,000 in additional attorney fees. Folks, if you want to litigate, be certain that you have a case.

I honestly don't think that an SDA leader would be killed for his/her particular religious beliefs ... not yet, anyway. It's much more likely that a deranged person would do it, for largely imaginary or self-edifying reasons.

Potlucks, oh, the issues that come about, and non-SDA congregations have potlucks: I once attended a congregation located near a military base that had a potluck every week. We would have members who had attended another congregation in our area who would come to our potluck after attending another congregation! They often brought nothing to the potluck. At a military congregation, I once had a family who had a guest family visiting, show up for the potluck (they had not attended the service) and their only contribution for the entire tribe was a half-eaten container of ice cream. At a SDA congregation I once pastored, a guest came with a plate of ham sandwiches and was quite put out that no one ate any of them. I had a traveling group from a SDA Academy do a presentation for a military congregation that I once had. I had personally shared dietary information with my congregation who all brought vegetarian food to feed them. The problem occurred when a single soldier, brought a dish containing shrimp. My Adventist group thought it was quite tasty. The SDA congregation that I attend, once fed some 200 visitors who came for a conference. In this case, coordination had been made ahead of their arrival along with an agreement to pay for the Sabbath meal that we provided. The congregation that I attend has a potluck, typically once a moth. In August we will have on twice. We generally decorate for the potluck with a seasonal theme. That comes with a financial cost, which the congregation provides. Occasionally (quite rarely) someone will bring a dish that has the real stuff in it. We simply identify it as having the real thing and put it out. We once had a group from another part of the world attend and they brought a number of dishes that had the real thing in them.

God is Love! Jesus saves!

Here's another article on the same idea: What Trump and the Pope Reveal About U.S. Politics http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story3089-what-trump-and-pope-reveal-about-u.s.-politics

Actually, the Second Law says that how much something accelerates is greater the greater force acting, and less the greater the mass. So changing our perspectives - on parenting or anything else - depends on how much inertia we have, and how much force is applied...

Gotta love a physics analogy! It's very old, so it describes very old versions of the two platforms, but Stan's comment made me think of a very short article by Umberto Eco, from 1994 (21 years ago), that compares the Mac and DOS (the Microsoft system before Windows). He claims Mac is Catholic and DOS is Protestant, which is the opposite of what Stan suggested. This is the no-quote, no-link zone so you'll have to google it yourself. In relation to the OP, I think of it in relation to parenting: it seems to me that some just reproduce what their parents did. Maybe that's Newton's First Law: an object stays stationary or continues in a straight line unless acted on by an external force. Others parent in reaction to the way they were parented: if their parents were strict they're very laissez-faire, or vice versa. That's the Third Law approach the OP talks about. Surely the best approach (and unfortunately for the beauty of the analogy, it doesn't really correspond to the Second Law!), is to consider how we were parented, continue the good bits and change the bad bits. Not simple, mindless reaction, but thoughtfulness. Applying the ideas to other contexts I leave as an exercise for the reader.

Jefferson has been quoted as saying, "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." While the authenticity of the statement is in question by some, the sentiment of it is worth considering. And in light of the current regimes efforts to ban guns and all their other schemes against the American people, I suspicion now is the time to arm yourself! I suspicion the people we pay to protect us really don't have our best interest in mind. A well armed public can make the government think twice of really going crazy on the people.