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There are no SDA schools in my area. I like teaching my kids, so we homeschooled, while there are SDA homeschool materials, we couldn't even afford them. Sadly an SDA education is unaffordable for many, we've had preachers preach about stewardship and then turn around and say it was okay to go into debt over education. I disagree. I think it should be made available and affordable to all. But even an all SDA education doesn't guarantee that your child will turn out SDA, just like an all public education won't necessarily turn out secular kids; remember we all have our own path and we all have to make a choice.

nah, there is a lot of different branches, groups keep on splitting and splitting

The wanna be sociologist who tried to wordsmith that about Adventist, maybe need to rethink somethings When I went through the struggles to become an Adventist, I realized that deciding to become something different than all my friends were, creates a natural order of what I call socio-ostracization, that is a nature occurrence. When people are of one group, and decide to become different what else could happen? If a political liberal leaders change parties, because of conviction, of course he is going to feel out of place with former friends, old friends are going to feel out of place with him/him.

I feel that there are other details that we are not privy to. Be that as it may, Larry Wilson is certainly not a friend of SDA's or even of the Bible. However, Gay you stated that he brought you back for which I am thankful. Stan's reference to the Shepherd Rods (there are also other groups who publish and attempt to infiltrate our members with their beliefs) reminded me of how disruptive the Orthodox priest are in some other countries. On a couple of occasions I experienced their attempts to block the message. Much as I wanted to have them removed, it wasn't the right time. Each incident the Lord did it for me. This may be a personal thing, but I would not go into another denomination and hand out radical anti____________ materials inside their church. Somehow it just seems wrong!

I concor, what gets irritating is when they become vultures on everynew member and visitor.. Shepard's Rod do that today.

re: a church ostracizing members because they hand out non-SDA papers: We have had a number of "fringe" SDAs at my home church. One I recall vividly was a Brinsmead adherent in her late 70's, and would hand out and/or mail literature to all in the church directory. She was an oddball type of person, but I can't imagine anyone telling her (or others like her) that she couldn't attend church. I find it totally bizarre to banish someone from a church, except in extraordinary circumstances...

Have spoke about this in workshops I have done.. here i a short version There was a farmer... the Ford dealer looked after him, all of his trucks and the trucks of his 5 boys were Ford. The Ford dealer drove out in a blizzard with his newest 4 wheel drive to pick up the famers wife who was about to going labour. All roads were closed, helicopter evacuation was impossible. The Ford dealer gave him interest free credit during bad times, and the farmer always paid his debt. The family was a Ford Family. One day a son came home with a Brand New Chevy, and was so excited about the ride, the gas mileage, the colour EVERYthing. He had to tell everyone one over and over again, about his excitement. The brothers said to each other "Dad would roll over in his grave if he new what he did, the check dealer was never there to help out, Dad was a ford man.. Ford built this family and got us through tough times. What ends up happening with the brother who loves his chevy pick up? I was that one who brought the chevy home, when I became an Adventist (and NO We were not famers)

We had two SDA schools in our county but one closed down. It was a K-12 and the Conference planned to open a new K-8 school but a law suit has prevented that so until it is settled, that campus will sit unused. The other school is on the other side of the county and not close to the expressway so it would be about an hour drive each way for our kids to go there. I wish our denomination would have a homeschool program available for parents. Communities without a school could form a homeschool association.

The list is derived from the question at the beginning of 1 Corinthians 6:9 - "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?" The list are examples to illustrate the unrighteous. But also remember that Paul also categorically states that nobody is righteous (See Romans 3:10) And we are also told that whatever we have in terms of righteousness is just filthy rags. That certainly seems to say that what we think might be righteous is not really. So if we are all unrighteous, how does God populate the New Earth with only righteous people. He has to clean up a lot of filthy rags. He has to take those rags off our back and cloth us with righteousness that is not our own. That has to happen for every single human that inherits the kingdom. It is not a place just for those that have cast off the final fragments of their slightly soiled clothes. It is a place for the the dirty dozen that get washed clean in the blood of the Lamb and then get to wear the clean robe of righteousness that he supplies. That is the story of everyone. Not just some. Not just certain ones. Everyone. The point is that nobody that inherits the kingdom without that cleansing and clean robe of Christ's righteousness. So everyone that he brings in will indeed be righteous and none of them will be unrighteous. Because don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? That is because they are all righteous through Christ. None of them are unrighteous inside the kingdom.

Missing the point. Everyone limps, stumbles, or crawls across the finish line. It is not about hanging onto favorite sins. It is hanging onto Jesus not matter what sins are so deeply embedded that we have no control over them. It is not about us hanging our favorite sins. It is that our sins hold onto us with such a deeply embedded deep grip that humanly speaking they we are hopelessly beyond fixing. It is only a miracle of grace that gets us across the line to be changed on the other side. If one just stops and thinks of all the memories of sin stored between their own ears, where our real deep and unalterable sinfulness really resides it is overwhelming to realize how hopeless our sinfulness really is. We cannot erase or delete any of that from our head. That requires a powerful miracle that changes us all in a twinkling of an eye. Otherwise we bring it all with us.

Can't get much more accurate than this

Ellen White contradicts, adds to, or takes away from the Holy Bible. Read the Great Controversy then the Book of Revelation. Revelation 22:18-19: "I testify to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book. 19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this prophetic book, God will take away his share of the tree of life and the holy city, written in this book." Likewise, she adds doctrines that are not based on other books of the Bible. Ellen White Wrote: “But clearer light came with the investigation of the sanctuary question. They now saw that they were correct in believing that the end of the 2300 days in 1844 marked an important crisis. But while it was true that that door of hope and mercy by which men had for eighteen hundred years found access to God, was closed, another door was opened, and forgiveness of sins was offered to men through the intercession of Christ in the most holy. One part of His ministration had closed, only to give place to another. There was still an “open door” to the heavenly sanctuary, where Christ was ministering in the sinner’s behalf.” Christ in His Sanctuary, p. 107 The Bible said: "“But the Messiah has appeared, high priest of the good things that have come. In the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands (that is, not of this creation), 12 He entered the most holy place once for all, not by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.” – Hebrews 9:11-12 “Every priest stands day after day ministering and offering the same sacrifices time after time, which can never take away sins. 12 But this man, after offering one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God. 13 He is now waiting until His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.” – Hebrews 10:11-14 We are already under forgiveness. Note that the Bible says that Jesus already obtained "eternal redemption." This happened during the first century AD, while Paul, Peter, James, and others were writing their "books." I could give you more examples... 1) The Investigative Judgment is NOT Biblical 2) Contrary to what Mrs. White said, the Ten Commandments (especially Sabbath, adultery?) were not kept in heaven before creation. 3) Noah did not preach for 120 years. (Read Genesis yourself.) 4) Martin Luther did not become a monk for the reason that Mrs. White claimed. (Her writings contradict his own.) 5) Sins were not placed on Satan, they were placed on Jesus. 6) The Sabbath was NEVER given to the Gentiles. 7) There is no record that Paul or any of the other apostles told Gentiles to keep the Sabbath, none! 8) Adam was with Eve when they both ate the forbidden fruit. (Genesis 3:6) and much more... Thank you and God Bless!

I'm sorry my posts were heavy. You have a very wise father and frankly his quote is an excellent paraphrase of my second post. As for the flavors of Adventism: Our pioneers were members of a large number of churches with a wide background, but they were kicked out for their love of the Millerite message. They wanted to form a church that agreed upon a few landmarks but outside of the landmarks allow for the liberty to worship according to the dictates of their conscience and not have to worry about being thrown out again because they were not uniform enough. As long as they agreed on the landmarks and were not fanatical they could be members. Also, when they formed the town of Washington NH they formed the town government and school and other things the town needed. However they had difficulty in forming the town church. One group wanted a church that was established where only recognized ministers teaching orthodox ideas could preach. The other group wanted a church where anyone who felt that they had a message were free to share and leave it to the members to evaluate and decide what convinced them to follow and what to reject. The two groups could not get together so they decided to have two churches. One for an established message and one for freedom of expression and diversity in ideas. I don't know what happened to the established church, but the open church developed into what we consider the first Seventh-day Adventist church. [Note: there were some churches in Seventh-day Baptist communities that might dispute the claim that Washington NH was the first but the records are not clear.] When ever they formed a list of our beliefs (such as the 27 turning into the 28) they have traditionally be written somewhat vague to cover a consensuses of our basic beliefs but also leave room for the different flavors. They were specifically written so that they could include some of the more evangelical, the Adventist Theological Society, those who appreciate Graham Maxwell's thought, the Historic Adventists, those who like Jack Sequeira, those who like Robert Wieland, etc. Many of our great leaders had some very strong views but they agreed to disagree and were united on the landmarks and saw the church not as the institution for salvation but as a vessel to bring the gospel to the whole world. In the 1800s we eventually had a conservative publishing house and a liberal publishing house. People wanted the conservative publishing house to take over the liberal one and bring it into line. Mrs. White opposed this saying that we needed the messages from both publishing houses and for them to remain independent of each other. (sadly we have kept the letter of the law but lost the spirit of the law as we made the people in the publishing houses interchangeable.) The Biblical flavor is the flavor we find in Washington NH and among our pioneers. It is the flavor behind our different list of our beliefs over our history. It is the flavors Mrs. White wanted in having both a conservative and a liberal publishing house; the flavor of liberty of conscience. I cringe when one group wants to take away the liberty of conscience from another group.

Okay..You pulled out of me! The Story gets thicker! It was Larry Wilson Books and VHS tapes (then DVD) that got me to go back to God out of where and wha? and who and where! That is why I read eight books... It kept me nightly thriving to dig in my heels to stay true to God no matter what. I started going to the SDA Church in the CA GayBay Area. I was so far from GOD even though He was right there all this time! Imagine! An old staunch Mother Of Israel mailed me his stuff when I called her out of the blue ..reaching out in agony. His Understanding of this kind of God regarding the Swiftness of the Second Coming AND the World Events and a Picture that made me love God more. I am forever Grateful. I like Larry Wilson alot! Now this! with close church friends! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

yes! I think as the days get closer and the heart gets bigger ..the very natural and normal thing we see in all ourselves will become more supernatural. I'm betting on it!

I agree these are great words, but E. J. Waggoner wrote them.

Again, speculation. You don't know how God knows....You are speculating.

Having a victim testify in the presence of the accused can be a traumatic experience, especially if the person on the stand is a child. Here is one method of supporting the person giving testimony: http://www.upworthy.com/testifying-in-front-of-your-attacker-in-court-is-terrifying-these-dogs-make-it-easier?c=huf1

Moishe Goldberg, owner of Moishe’s Kosher Grocer, decided to do his friend Herb a favor and hire his grandson David, fresh out of college, to work in the grocery store. David reported for his first day of work and Moishe greeted him with a warm handshake and a smile, gave him a broom and said, "Your first job will be to sweep out the store." "But I'm a college graduate," David replied indignantly. "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know that," said Moishe. "Here, give me the broom – I'll show you how."

I appreciated DW's take on the issue. Yes - there are people in the SDA denomination (as well as most others) that take a Taliban/Pharisee attitude towards others and feel it is their duty to dictate their brand of morality on everyone else. There are entire congregations that practice this. But my experience is that there are far more congregations who are accepting and loving; at least there are groups within a congregation that are accepting and loving. We see subgroups here on CA that fall into both camps. There are those who seem to be offended by some of the members here who don't quite fit the traditional church mold. There are other who welcome those different ones and encourage their participation here. I'm OK with that. It is differences of opinion that spark debate and conversation. I have experienced the rejection that Gay's article discusses; and I have experienced the community that DW discusses. I prefer to remember the good experiences and not the bad ones. Focusing on the bad ones just nourishes a bitter root and feelings of condemnation towards both myself and those who have offended me. Holding on to offenses (both real and imagined) is one of the biggest barriers to the kind of Christian community that God desires for His people.

I see that the OP is from a website entitled "Leaving the Seventh-day Adventist Church." Seems like it would have been more open to plainly label the source. Finding a long list of ways to criticize others does not seem to be the most effective way to arrive at truth. Personally, 2 of the 8 things about becoming insular apply to me, and one only in part. But then I am a convert- and there are a lot of us. Of course Adventist believers will have some of the same shared experiences and do some of the same things, but I do not have friends that tell uniquely Adventist jokes. This guy has an agenda. He gives advice on how to "deconvert" and how to deal with Adventists who keep bothering you after you do so. So I wonder what the point is of sharing his "stuff." To prove Adventists are different? Some of the differences he listed are values based, like the Sabbath, and some are cultural. We are supposed to have the values based differences. If something is true and we understand it to be true, God expects us to follow it, and other believers also believe this, not merely the SDA church. Try telling a Baptist that baptism is unnecessary once you know about it and believe it to be true. "To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." "If ye know these things, happy are ye if you do them." The cultural differences are not so absolute. I have taught students from over 40 countries, and they do not use the fake meats, tell Adventist jokes, etc. etc. Nor are most SDAs from the US or Canada anymore. So he lumps together cultural Adventist traditions with following Biblical things like the Sabbath. Maybe this article is 25% true, that there is a subset of Adventists that follow unnecessary cultural traditions, but I think the author has rejected essential issues like the Sabbath along with being irritated at jargon at potlucks he used to attend. These are hardly at the same level of importance, but it has been many years since potlucks feature primarily meat analogs, and these have become far more accepted with many non Adventists eating them and are now available in practically every supermarket in the U.S.

In reading The Revelation of Jesus and really understanding its message for the first time not so many years ago, I was struck by the picture of the saints, those who are saved and the sense portrayed tha they were not looking around in surprise at others, amazed at how that person was there. The humble realization was utter wonderment at realizing that they themselves are there and that it is deep gratitude only because of God's tremendous grace that they are there. It is in that moment or supreme thankfulness that the presence of everyone else, no matter their past or the defective mess that they were only makes sense in the bright light of grace. All is forgiven. Everything is new and restored to a sinless perfection as God had intended at Creation. What any of us was before is no longer relevant.

Just guessing, but maybe heaven will be filled with people of all kinds and types of 'ex's' that we shun now. In my mind, we are not the ones, so much, determining who will be in heaven but rather those that won't be there. Our challenge is to let God make the choice, and for us to give a true representation of our God. I seem to remember in the NT somewhere Christ saying He didn't come to condemn but to seek and save...could be wrong but that is how I understand His mission!!

Hmmmmm...some are protesting too much? Instead of casting doubts about the person writing the article, carefully consider the points presented. The person feels that way so they are accurate to them. We may feel differently but that does not mean the writer is anti or close minded. Has anyone suggesting such actually talked to the person. Are we jumping to conclusions with out considering the possibility that the persons experience is accurate? Assumptions ab out others often gets us into trouble....more often than not. i can speak from experience.

lol, what is this? An Encyclopedia Dramatica page? (Man... After reading this, you'd think the SDA church was Scientology 2.0!) This is probably the second most anti-Adventist, closed-minded, generalizing article I've seen here in my short time on this site. I don't see any problem with any of the things this person is complaining about. To me it just sounds like the person who wrote this had a crappy extreme experience, left (or is leaving) the church and is now running around trying to sensationalize the fact that the SDA church is [harmlessly] peculiar when people are only trying to find a way to keep their culture alive in a world that would otherwise be harder to live in if they had no one to relate to. I haven't even been brought up in an SDA family and this is insulting to me because I find the SDA church to be a group of very likable, gentle, open-minded people who have taught me a lot about the bible. To urge that they practically should not have a community is to want the church to shrivel and eventually cease to be. Sure, living a life like this could possibly produce some big-headed people who think only they will make it to heaven. And sure, there are some legit points here being made...but only in very specific cases! This person has no idea how the whole SDA church carries out their lives and mingles with the world in order to make friends, be decent citizens, have fun..etc. Seems like this person just wants to eradicate the church based on a highly subjective perspective and make it much like many of the other dying, hardly recognizable denominations of the 21st century: void of identity, void of doctrinal uniqueness and lacking in the ability to be noticed in this world.

In reading this thread, I see some truth on both sides of the story. Some SDA congregations are exclusive; some are inclusive. Some welcome non-Adventists; some make visitors feel isolated or uncomfortable. Some visitors make those in some SDA congregations uncomfortable. I have "church-shopped" a lot in my life. I have been part of Sunday congregations who have been absolutely on fire for Jesus and filled with the Holy Spirit just like I have been in SDA congregations with the same Spirit. I have been in Sunday congregation that were dead as a doornail; same experience in some SDA congregations. What's important is not what denomination you claim as your own, but Who you claim as your own. I believe that having a sincere relationship with Jesus is far more important than having 100% correct doctrine or perfect behavior. When we exclude people who do not believe or behave exactly as we do, we lose a blessing; and they may miss out on salvation if we don't figure out how to include all who would come. When people truly love and trust in Jesus, my experience is that the Holy Spirit will lead them into the truth. But seekers need a group that accepts them where they are rather than looks down their nose at the "different" ones until they magically change into one of "us". Sorry; my ecumenical side is showing again.

Sounds to me like one disgruntled former Adventist!! Anyone know who wrote this article?? Personally the Sabbath does influence my life!! You know why?? Because the Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus Christ influences my life. I might not do a great job of following that influence, but if I put him at the center of it, than by extension, it most definitely should influence my life.

Prejudice a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics I find no such attitudes in the teachings of Christ. He came to dispel such attitudes amongst the Jews which kept them from seeing the true nature of God. There are many parallels in some religions of today with that of ancient Israel. SDA's have been warned about such in the past but to some extent we still continue. I believe it is partially based on fear rather than totally trusting in God.