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Bonnie: You asked what a moderate Adventist is: Let's start with liberal and conservative. Up to the 1800s generally speaking people took for granted God's existence and that the Bible was inspired. They were either good people who accepted Christ into their lives and studied the Bible or bad people who did not. Then in the mid 1800s the theory of evolution came and was used to question God's existence. People looked of evolution in everything including literature and the Bible. They came to teach that the Bible was only ancient myths and that they were fictional. That there was no Abraham, no Moses, no David. That the Bible came from purely human sources. In response those who loved God and accepted the Bible wanted to defend against the above ideas. They began reasoning that if God was perfect than his word must be perfect (and using a Greek/Western view of perfection). They came to see the Bible as perfect in every single way. That all of the slightest details were just how it was. There were a few books written in the 1800s supporting this, then in the first decade or so of the 1900s there were a series of pamphlets called the Fundamentals that were very popular and influential. And this lead to the 1919 Bible Conference in Philadelphia. (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fundamentalism) Now there was a minister who held on to the concepts of Biblical historicity, the existence of God etc. he was uncomfortable of the views of scripture that the Fundamentalists were forming. And he preached a sermon against it, supporting that the Bible was inspired but that it was the people having a subjective experience and then they wrote what they learned in their own words and their own knowledge. This sermon cost that minister his career. People hated it. One woman said that she was having an affair with this minister. It was later proved to be a lie but his career was ruined. The lady said that she wanted to protect the scriptures from his horrible approach to inspiration by lying about the affair. However, there was at least one person who liked this sermon: Her name was Ellen G. White. She took his sermon and changed it from a subjective experience to an objective experience and we find it in the forward to the Great Controversy and in selected messages. Anyway, W. W. Prescott read one of the early books on Fundamentalism. He began teaching it at Battle Creek where Stephen Haskell heard him. When Mrs. White heard about this she asked him to stop teaching and to work with her. He joined A. G. Daniels and D. M. Canright who were also excited about the ideas of the Fundamentalists. Mrs. White had them do things to her writings that they were appalled to do with their views of inspiration. Mrs. White taught them the views of that infamous sermon above (except for inspiration being objective rather than subjective). All 3 young men were in a tizzy. Finally Prescott and Daniel's gave up fundamentalism (at least towards Mrs. White, unclear if they also gave it up towards the Bible fully or partially). Canright on the other hand gave up Mrs. White and Adventism and joined the most extreme Fundamentalist religion, the Northern Baptists and became an enemy of Adventism. And if you study Canright the only reason he had for leaving the church was his staunch Fundamentalist views and how Mrs. White did not measure up to them. Our church became split on Fundamentalism. In the 1880s Elder Butler wrote a series in the review against Fundamentalism. A big part of the crisis of the 1888 General conference was that those who opposed Jones and Wagner had inspired Mrs. White quotes that supported their interpretation of scripture. Now she is telling them that her writings should not be used to resolve questions of exegesis. Now Butler opposed Jones and Wagner and had to take some time off to deal with the issues. I believe that it was only because he was an anti-fundamentalist that he was able to get through this crisis. However after a while Elder Jones, being a fundamentalists began to focus on Biblical texts that gave one picture that he saw as the infallible message of the Bible and became too tunnel vision to see balancing texts. And he was upset that Mrs. White changed from first saying that we were obligated to break Sunday laws to not to break them but give Sunday to the lord and make it a day of missionary work. How can a prophet make such a contradiction so he left. As we were entering into the 1900s Mrs. White was focused on the restructuring of the General Conference. But also made a lot of enemies over 1888 and the more accepting views of the trinity entering the church and her attacks of fundamentalism. Also she was writing letters to some ministers that I read a number of when I was at Andrews. Willie White also wrote a number of similar letters. They were critical of these ministers. They pointed out that they were using massive quotes by Mrs. White in their sermons and articles. But Mrs. White and Willie accused them of not understanding her message. That they were pushing their own message and looking for quotes from Mrs. White to give their ideas authority and to try to force their views on to the rest of the church. The followers of these ministers began to say that there were people writing letters claiming that they were Mrs. White. Or that people were going into Mrs. White's letters and putting in fraudulent writings that are getting mixed up with her real writings. As she denied this they began teaching that she had apostatized, maybe even had Jesuit spies working with her and maybe they even deceived her so that she is now teaching what the Jesuit spies are telling her to say. If not Jesuits, well at least she is getting her messages from her liberal son Willie and his friends such as Daniels and Prescott. Anyway, for what ever reason her messages were no longer from God. If you wanted to learn God's message turn to those ministers who she and Willie wrote those sharp letters to. I have to get to work now so write more later. But this is some of the history. Basically a moderate is one who believes in God, the Bible and Mrs. White, 1844, balances between the views of grace and law, and are non-fundamentalists.

I told you I have not studied into the whole thing so I do not have all the answers. I have only shared what I have come across. I have not been convinced but I have been challenged to not be as smug on the traditional position as I used to be. I am at a place were when Jesus comes where he could offer me one of two criticisms: First I could be open to them, encourage them to at least have a discreet monogamist relationship and trust in Jesus and Jesus can criticize me of offering them a false hope and being too accepting of a sin, and quote this text to me. On the other hand I can join the evangelicals and Jerry Farwell and others on their campaign about these people and have Jesus point out to me the things that I have heard about these verses and say that I have misapplied them to something beyond what he was talking about in the Bible and that thus I pushed away many who could have trusted in him who could have been into heaven but since they felt that heaven has no room for them they did not reach out for heaven. I know that I have to risk one of these two rebukes from Jesus. And as I consider them I would rather choose hearing Jesus tell me the first rebuke rather than hearing the second.

Kevin. Amen! I feel the same way too... It is hard to fight the conservative narrow possibly misapplied scriptures/culture/tradition inside me that bubbles up inside me. It is easy to let that fear and self loathing AND CONDEMNATION get directed out in all kinds of ways. Instead I want to err on the side of MERCY! For GRACE to be applied for my wretched sinfulness and selfishness and ego. It therefore must be Applied to others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus looked at all with compassion and non condemnation. ..it does not work any other way - u go by the FRUIT! ...............................................

This is one of the great questions. Every year millions of children die from illness, war, malnutrition and other causes. God does not intervene. Yet First-world Christians believe God does intervene to help them find a better job, to provide guidance on what house to buy, what university to attend, etc. I don't have the answers either.

A little correction to your post. The topic or the lifestyle of the gay/lesbian community is not a great concern. there were several that were co-workers of mine and they were well respected by most of us. They took their breaks with all of us,went out for breakfast following work and there wasn't any friction whatsoever. I have two friends that are lesbian and have been good friends for years. We celebrate birthdays together,frequently go out for dinner,absolutely no friction. The concern and friction comes for me when I am told the bible really doesn't mean what it says. If I believe what it says I am somehow a intolerant,self righteous hypocrite.I do get concerned with SDA members that make the bible of little importance regarding this issue,along with those that have a difficult time posting without condemning "those other guys". You know the ones,those that disagree that a gay/lesbian lifestyle is biblical. Regardless of any biblical scholar or SDA pastor or member,this says something very specific For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper…” -Romans 1:24-28

((( GafoC ))) Rooting for you, too. I know that your journey is not easy.

I know someone close to me that is also going through this. There are times when we just can't see... But we can still believe. I do believe that God WILL give you evidence that you can feel, but it might not be when we feel we need it. Knowing that all will have these times the only remedy I can think of is to walk by faith. As soon as we are able to feel or see then it is not faith anymore. You are not alone, definitely not alone. We all have times of discouragement. I am glad that you came here and voiced your difficulty. I hope that we can encourage you to keep on. God is faithful! He WILL come through ((( jballew7 ))) We are rooting for you!!

The way you are phrasing this makes it sound (to my ears) that faith and overcoming evil with good are things which can be separated, as if we could overcome evil with good without faith, but God gives us faith, so that our overcoming evil with good could be pleasing to Him. Rather than this (and I'm not saying this is what you meant to say, but it's how I understood it), faith is the means by which evil is overcome with good. Without faith, it would be impossible to overcome evil with good. Also, with faith, it's impossible not to overcome evil with good.

One can only make a good a judgment as the information one has... Some people can hold high standards and still attract others to see God's love. Others hand out condemnation, and, as Kevin mentioned, turn people away from even trying. It is an art to be winning, for in the end that is the way we want to be, isn't it? To win souls for God? God will do the changing if there is any to be made. Too often critical spirits destroy any desire to come to Jesus at all.

Great post, speaking for myself, it seems that its an on again off again thing! But God never leaves us, he has others to always encourage us, when we need it the most. As others have mentioned, just keep the faith and God will surely reward. He never fails us. Also welcome to C/A jballew7

Hmmm...thanks for that perspective, most interesting and honest.

Fantastic! What was posted that let to your changing your behavior? That's quite a rare thing. I'd love to be able to write a post that led to people drinking water instead of soda. It's such a simple thing, like washing your hands, which has great positive results.

The video present the Catholic perspective. I thought it was interesting that the speaker would speak of "The Protestant position", as if there were just one, but sometimes he would more accurately refer to it as the "Protestant Reformed" position. We as SDA's believe some aspects of both the Catholic and Reformed position, but in general disagree with both. For example, regarding the Catholic position, we do not believe that regeneration is a result of water baptism, but that baptism is merely a symbol. Regarding the Reformed position, to name just one thing, we do not agree that the will plays no part in justification by faith.

How do you read more or less into? their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. God did not create an alternative for Adam for him to take his pick.From Genesis to Rev on the topic of marriage it is always one man,one woman. Never a buffet that you can choose what you prefer. I asked you earlier what you meant when you defined yourself as a moderate. What is a moderate SDA christian? I think we have a lot that would define themselves the same way. I know what it means to me but am really curious what it means to you and others

Every year, for many years, the Boulder SDA Church has put on a Christmas Cantata. This had been done in connection with another Protestant congregation in our area. Their performance members attend our church on Saturday morning and our attend their services on Sunday morning. So, the Canta is performed twice. With the change of our preaching service to 9:30 AM, the Cantata will be performed at 2:30 PM, at the Boulder SDA Church, on December 12. In the past the Church has had a full congregation. NOTE: IF you want to plan for 2016, the date will be: December17, 2016. Under our present leadership, we plan more than a year ahead.

Not a rule break, just takes up way to much space! On the forum you will often get more views or response to shorter postings. For such a long page/video just post the link and tell people what it is about. Video's will play in place. I'm sure people such as Gail can help you out. Carry on

Reminds me of the song, "I was lookin' back to see if you if you were lookin' back to see. You were cute as you could be, standin' lookin' back at me." LoL God is Love! Jesus saves!

Thanks everyone for the support. All of you inspire me to continue on in the faith! I have faith in Christ and know that He is always there whether I feel Him or not. Having the support here helps a lot too.

I was an SDA for over 25 years, and was active in the church. Upon reading the Bible through a couple of times and many additional hours of research, I discovered that what I was led to believe all those years was incorrect, and not based on the Bible. I am seeking for someone to show me otherwise, using only the Bible. I was not aware that you had to be an SDA to join this forum. I am a member of other forums which are for former SDA's and often SDA's join to engage in sharing Bible verses and doctrines. If you are saying that you are not willing to back up your beliefs with the Bible in this forum, then I have no desire to remain. Please let me know. God Bless! - Dave

the victims need to forgive or they will never be healed.. may not be fair but it is how it works.. and it doe not happen the first week, some times it takes years, they find the peace Restoring to leadership? Not going to happen, we must never forget, so others are not put in danger.

Okay, let me try to digest all of the information you provided. Yes, my study of Judaism, and the input of my sister who converted to Judaism as an older adult, confirms that Gentiles are not under most of the law, save a few of the 613 commandments or mitsvah. (SDA's who proclaim knowledge of the law fail to grasp the whole concept of the equality of the commandments.) However, your above quote is, shall we say in "left field." Micah 4:5 could mean several things. Please note that injured persons are mentioned in this chapter, and the New Heavens and Earth will include no sickness, suffering, and so forth. Also what other "nations" will exist at that time? That verse aside, let's examine the number of verses in the New Testament that condemn, forbid, and/or warn us against idolatry. These are only a few: Acts 15 - The Jerusalem Council forbid Gentile converts from eating food sacrificed to idols. Acts 17:16 - Paul was "troubled" by a city full of "idols." Romans 1:23-26 call idolatry "depravity" and tell how God punished those who made idols of animals, such as mammals or reptiles. Then the depraved way the people act (homosexuality) is described. 1 Corinthians 5:11, 6:9, 10:14 all tell us to either flee form idolatry, or that those who practice it will not "inherit" the kingdom. Also see Ephesians 5:5, and Colossians 3:5. In addition, Jesus taught that He was the way to the Father, on several occasions (Luke 10, John 1, John 6, John 10:30, John 14:6...) You need to review the Bible a little more before claiming that people in Heaven or on the New Earth will worship any other "god(s)." As for the Sabbath, we seem to agree in part. I do not believe that it was given to Adam and Eve, but to the Children of Israel in Exodus 16:23, for the first time. That is the first Bible reference to the word "Sabbath." God Bless!

I root for the bulls...