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We'll be a lot happier and healthier as a society when we learn to avoiding hearing "It's not for me" as implying "and therefore it should not be for you either". Pam said that women's groups are not for her. Totally fine. If they're for you, also totally fine. She mentioned some things she had experienced in some women't groups. Totally fine. If you've never experienced those things, also totally fine. Opera is, as a general thing, not for me. Same with country music. Pretty sure black metal is not for you. All totally fine: we can say what is and isn't for us and be saying nothing about what is and isn't for others.

Me thinks waaaaaayyyyyy toooooo much has been made of Pam's comments. Comments can be just comments w/o any hidden meanings to be gained.

here's the video..

Lately, I have been in the mood to purge things around the house (probably because I have been singing the song below to myself for months while I worked outside). It seems like life is so much simpler when I let go of things that hold some kind of superficial meaning, but somehow are always in need of being dusted. Notice I said "in of being dusted," not to be confused with the actual act of dusting. LOL As time progresses, I hope to find myself being less and less burdened by the things of this world. I kind of feel like the stuff I get rid of is stuff that I won't have to "pack" for heaven. I know, I know, I'm just kidding about taking anything to heaven but our loved ones and our character, but maybe leaving some things behind may lighten the yoke. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBmkR8WARdM

My wife and I are recent empty nesters; and are at least talking about decluttering. After 20 years in the same house with up to 5 kids living with us, it's just talk at this point. so many things with zero practical or monetary value, but so much sentimental value ... But I would LOVE to get rid of boxes of stuff that we haven't even opened in 20 years. But there is SOOO much stuff!!

I used to read some of her articles and subscribed to her e-mails. The problem became that she cluttered my inbox!

I should not ask to be hired as a bartender, if I refuse, for religious reasons, to sell alcoholic drinks. She is working in a government job where she is required to issue marriage licenses to every person who meets the legal requirement. If she cannot do that. She should resign. If she does not resign and she continues to refuse to issue such licenses, she should be willing to suffer the consequences. I remind you that in the past some such clerks had religious objections to issuing marriage licenses to bi-racial couples. Individual civil rights of persons in the United States do not depend upon the religious beliefs of a government official.

That man feeding and caring for the starving and homeless poor may be closer to God than all of us Bible-reading church-going Christians. Maybe that's the line of demarcation between self-sacrificing servants of mankind and those of us who use our money to buy more and more stuff for our comfort or entertainment. We can argue forever over the Scriptures, but the only thing that really counts is what we have done to help others, to brighten their little corner, even if they are outcasts who are shunned by people who have plenty of money for themselves.

However if I had it to do over, I would rather not have to go through the trial and tribulation I've gone through that has been directly attributable to God's amazing grace, used to polish me after wading through the sewage of this world. It must be remembered David lost his first born with Bathsheba and also war never escaped his rule for the remainder of His life as a result of his offenses. God is Love! Jesus saves!

By "we", I mean Seventh-day Adventists. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the Seventh-day Adventist denomination had a website like Amazon and eBay, but part of ASI, where Seventh-day Adventists could sell their creations: books and other writings, photography, clothing, home made soap and shampoo, and other useful products? Why hasn't someone done that yet? Or have they?

After a particularly inspiring service at Congregation Beth Israel, one of the congregants approached Rabbi Adler. "Rabbi, that was a wonderful sermon. You should have it published." Rabbi Adler replied, "Actually, I'm planning to have all my sermons published posthumously." "Great!" enthused the congregant. "I can’t wait to read them!"

You could contact someone at ASI and run it by them

I don't believe there are "rooms" or "apartments" in "Heaven itself". I believe the "two apartments" represented two ministries, the first a continuous one (up to the second one) and the second one a final appearance of the HP (Christ) as the representative of Israel, at the final judgment scene, and also as the fit man who will banish the scapegoat to the uninhabited place. Because I do NOT believe the DAY of Atonement has yet arrived, I do not believe that Jesus has symbolically entered the "apartment" which symbolized the DAY of Atonement work. All of Heaven IS "most holy" and the closer one comes to the Father, the more holy. So we've been talking about two different things. 1. The holiest PLACE 2. The "ministry" of a specific "appointed time" - The DAY of Atonement One is a LOCATION (proximity to God). The other is a ministry - specific to an EVENT. Hope that makes sense.

Hey jackson, I agree with you that Christ is currently in the MHP. I can't speak for 8thday, but I think she will agree with you as well. I don't think He is fulfilling the actual final Day of Atonement (which doesn't happen until around the 2nd Coming); but He does sit at the right hand of the Father; and wherever the Father is IMHO is the MHP. The issue I have is that according to Hebrews, Christ entered the MHP after His resurrection 1985 years ago when He ascended into heaven - not 171 years ago in 1844, like EGW says. I also believe that He is there offering His blood as atonement for sin; not doing an Investigative Judgement. If you can prove from scripture alone that Christ entered the MHP in 1844 to do the investigative judgement, my hat is off to you.

Lol!! I use the Flylady system on a daily basis. It's helped tremendously! Peter Walsh has a 30 day declutter challenge every year. I use that one too. I think you can find this year's challenge on YouTube still.

That is a nice song, I had never heard it, thanks for sharing. As for the purging, I used to subscribe to the Flylady, and she was constantly encouraging us to do a "15 fling boogie" where you throw away 15 things at a time. It really does help my spirit when the clutter is gone.

Why do people want to have freedom of religion, except when it doesn't correspond with their own? Why do people complain about their work requirements after they are hired? Why do people want freedom of speech for themselves, but not others? Why do people want freedom of belief for themselves, but not others? If someone doesn't like the requirements of their job, they are not prevented from seeking different employment. But, on the issue of gay issues, people just want to complain and make it a religious issue. I doubt it is religiously motivated, but rather just plain everyday prejudice. Time to stop hiding our biases/prejudices behind religion. Gives organized religion a very bad name. Opps, I forgot......official religion is not the same as believing in Christ. But since official religions all claim to be followers of Christ......hmmmmm. Christ came once to to show the true image of God.....did He fail?

They're not. If it is the case that I have misunderstood, then please forgive me for misunderstanding you.

thanks bro, I totally agree and encourage you to watch the last 10 mins. I think it is important to understand both the sickness and the cure. Sin is our sickness and Christ alone is our cure. we are encouraged by the Bible to flee from the wrath that is to come. It does not hide the danger we are in without Christ, so for a sermon to be balanced we must be aware of our current situation and be able to examine where we are and see our need for Jesus and the salvation He provides. Please keep me in your prayers that God will help me present His message in a balanced manner.

I wouldn't doubt the possibilities of your conclusion. However we need to remember, God didn't set up Capitalism as a godly example of living peacefully with our neighbor. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.....2 Corinthians 9 God is Love! Jesus saves!

The topic was *not* about Gail's private women's group... are the "comments" from the C/A women's group members that have been made towards me and my opinions regarding women's groups in general to be taken as an example of the type of exchange that would be present in C/A's women's group? Because if it is.... well.... I rest my case... And I'm done with this thread.

You're welcome GFC. I appreciate your presentation in this thread. It is surely comforting to know that "God demonstrates His love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8) I have to wonder, how can a sinner who has come to repentance ask for forgiveness not knowing that God is a God of Concessions? Why would they even invest more time in their studies to learn to do His will if they don't first believe that He'd forgive? I am reminded of a time long, long ago when I first studied the Lord's Prayer. The line, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" confused me as a child. I thought that it meant that God would only forgive us our sins as much as we were able to forgive others. And I thought if that was true, I'd never be forgiven because I had a lot of forgiving of others to do. I asked my Lutheran pastor what it meant and he assured me that it could easily read, "Forgive us our trespasses even as we should forgive those who trespass against us." And that little clarification has made a world of difference for me.

I am going to have to work that in my next presentation. Thank you Aubrey! I see where you are coming from and will take me ages to give it words. This OP took 2 years to form. Writing and grammar are not by best suite. I'm verbal and think out loud as well as ... LOL. I have only came across this faceted Pic of God ( OP ) very recently. It has helped me to Forgive more. That is whaT God's Pic on the CROSS supposed to do! (among o so many things) What Wondrous Love is This O my soul! #it helps my thinking about others and their choices

Mr. Rosenberg, a geometry teacher at Maimonides High School started a lesson on triangles by reading a theorem. "If an angle is an exterior angle of a triangle, then its measure is greater than the measure of either of its corresponding remote interior angles." He noticed that Chaim Yankel Rubenstein wasn't taking notes and asked him why. "Well," Chaim Yankel replied sincerely, "I was waiting for you to start speaking English."

Some people were referring to a "need" that some have. The need was not to provide a place for women. That has been tried here and that forum petered out eventually. If there was a need, it was to discover if it was possible to have a forum here that would provide fellowship in an environment that was safe and supportive to a member's spiritual walk. The fora all have to do with growth in grace. A person's faith is not questioned but encouraged. Ministry is encouraged whether by sharing or prayer, and as been said the prayer forum is by far the largest one of the bunch. Any disagreements or misunderstandings are done in the spirit of love. It's actually quite amazing to see it in action. EGW is not shot down there, nor our shortsighted theological understanding. Everyone is encouraged right where they are. We have shared huge personal struggles and there have been many serious ones. As I have mentioned many of the women there suffer from chronic pain. In the midst of that they are supported in their quest for forbearance, patience and courage. There has never been a need for moderation. So in that respect it is a different place than the main board. I created it because we were losing too many members, good members, to rudeness, sarcasm, criticism and fighting. I wanted to see if it was possible to foster productivity and joy and spiritual bonding. That was my reason for this experiment. The results far exceeded my expectations. It really feels like heaven there- a place that I love to return to. My dream is that Clubadventist in its entirety would be such a place. So- you see, what we are discussing is not a regular place for discussion. It does have a purpose and it does feed. But granted it's not a place for everyone. But it's not froufrou (sugary) by any means. I tend to avoid some women's gatherings for that very reason. It is the love and patience of the members there that makes it what it has become. We are allowed to make mistakes, knowing that we won't be shot down for it. And in that we are free and safe to confess what is on our hearts. There are frequent hugs and much compassion and counsel done in love. It is not always easy but I can see the love being passed around.

Good grief. NOBODY has a problem with there being a women's group at C/A. Not me, not Aubrey, not the men. Nobody. Where do people come up with these ideas? I started *this* thread so I wouldn't derail the one you started....because I'm polite that way. The subject of "women's groups/ministries" merely reminded me that I didn't care for them. And I stated my reasons why in a new topic. The defensiveness of the C/A women's group members seems peculiar to me... And, by the way, my name is not "Sister Rudywoofs"... that makes me sound like I'm a nun in dog pound...

LOL. In my understanding, rudywoofs meant no harm whatsoever and was sharing why she doesn't join in women's groups. I personally don't like them either. They are great for some women, but have very little to offer for others.

It is beginning to appear that ISIS may not be all wrong in disposing of as many christians as possible. Christians are to blame for most things that are wrong and have really nothing to offer

With all due respect to you Pam and the others who have shared negative impressions of women's groups. Your assessment of what is discussed in this group is far, far from what really is discussed. No gossip (that I am aware of) no tasteless jokes about sex .. opposite or otherwise... What we have not had to deal with is the badgering and sometimes down right rude comments concerning another's opinion. We sincerely pray for each other, on and off forum, and have developed a deep respect and concern for each other. We recognize that we are not perfect, no not one, but are working on our personal, spiritual lives. Please don't misunderstand, I love the guys, and the interaction is often very productive and refreshing, but there are times when a fellow lady understands another's issues in a deeper meaningful way. And, some things are just not appropriate to discuss in mixed company!!! As for Women's Ministry ... each to her own. I have not observed the things which you, Pam, re-counted when in a WM group. It's not that I doubt what you said, but the group sessions and ladies with whom I have been associated with certainly did not spend their time discussing the opposite sex, indulging in off colored jokes or gossip. They have been ladies who are serious about their personal walk with the Lord and in being better role models for their family, community and churches. Please do not take this to be anything other than a personal observation but I do believe that in any group we will find what we are seeking. As for the group on C/A I find it interesting that you-all appear to have an issue with it. I ask you this, In the years it has been here has it had an impact upon anyone of you; negative or otherwise?

There is a historical account of the two English Reformers, Ridley and Latimer. Ridley was sentenced to die by being burnt at the stake. The other man, Latimer, was burnt at the same time, and he died quickly. There was a problem with Ridley's fire, however. His legs were burnt to cinders, and he suffered terribly; but the fire was not reaching up. His brother in law "intending to rid him out of his pain (for which cause he gave attendance)", heaped more bundles of wood around him, "so that he clean covered him", thinking that this would hasten his end. Unfortunately it only made matters worse. Then one of the other bystanders took a stick and pulled away the bundles of wood, in such a way that the fire rose up. Ridley was able to twist himself into the more intense fire, and he soon died. Things like this were not uncommon. People were moved with compassion, and they were willing [and able] to help people die in situations like this. The story is somewhat worse than I've told it here, but the point is, when a person is "sentenced" to die, it really can be an act of mercy to help them die. This is a terribly emotive subject, yet I do NOT believe that the actions taken by the spectators was necessarily wrong, and in my opinion, their actions can be extrapolated out into a wider field.

when I left the church, I *loved* those "anti-SDA" websites that were comprised of bitter ex-SDA's... They'd whine and complain and point fingers, and I'd join in the "Hallelujah, I'm not a hypocrite" chorus. Then, for a long time, I didn't even bother with those groups... until I got a rude awakening during my witchcraft years. Then I went back to those former SDA forums, particularly the FAF, in an effort to try and figure out what spiritual path to take — back to the comfortable position of pointing fingers at Adventists. It occurred to me, while reading about all the bad, horrible things that SDAs had [subjectively] done to the various members, and reading the "Egg White" comments, that perhaps not all was as it was being cracked up to be. Though there had definitely been obnoxious people in the church who I had detested (and the feeling was probably mutual), and though EGW had been hammered at me ad nauseum, I suddenly realized I was painting the SDA Church with a very broad, very critical brush. While I most definitely had been spiritually abused by some SDA preachers, not everyone was like that. New personal friends came on the scene, including Mike Jones, Lonnie Melashenko, and others, whose opinions I valued because, not only were they were not stupid people, they didn't put on some sort of religious phony persona... they really did walk their talk. And then I joined C/A, as well, and found that, indeed I was right....there are so many different "flavors" of Adventists, just as in any other denomination. And, really, it would be terribly boring if everyone "sang the same note"....

I have too often thought that if we treated our animals, making them suffer, as much as we do our loved ones, someone might press charges against us. this is one of the toughest thing in life.

…18I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. 19'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent. 20'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.…Revelation 3 God is Love! Jesus saves!