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Agree. With a history of 30 years, Why not let it be?

I'm of the age and mutual inclination, this priority described below takes precedence. …6But this I say by way of concession, not of command. 7Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that. 8But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I.…1 Corinthians 7 God is Love! Jesus saves!

The more I think about exactly WHAT was to be accomplished by the END of the "seventy weeks" the more - it seems to point to Yom Kippur. I mean, the FINAL DAY of Atonement. Daniel 9:24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city 1. to finish transgression, 2. to put an end to sin, 3. to atone for wickedness, 4. to bring in everlasting righteousness, 5. to seal up [fulfill] vision and prophecy and 6. to anoint the Most Holy Place. (NIV) When - in the Hebrew Tabernacle scenario, was the sin of Israel, done away with? Answer: Yom Kippur - on the head of the scapegoat. When was "the Most Holy Place" anointed? Answer: Yom Kippur. When will prophecy concerning the "END of days" and "the time of the END" - be fulfilled? Answer: At the Second Coming. What happens at the SC? The scapegoat is banished, and the redeemed are at one, with the LORD. Looks like Yom Kippur - to me. When will the everlasting kingdom of righteousness come in? Answer: At the "7th trumpet" when the "kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ" - at Second Coming.

Christ is the means by which righteousness and eternal life comes, but the timing of our receiving eternal life or being justified by faith is determined by when we believe. Verse 21 says that through Christ righteousness reigns. If this were a question of timing, it would mean there was no grace in the Old Testament, but this isn't Paul's meaning at all. Paul's meaning is like John's, who wrote, "17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (John 1:17). If we were to the read this text the way you read Scripture, we would have to conclude there was no truth before Jesus Christ came! No, the point is not that there was no grace or truth before Christ came, but that Christ *revealed* these to an extent that had never been seen. Similarly, in regards to everlasting life, it's not that no one had everlasting life before Christ came, but that Christ is the means by which we receive life. Jesus Himself pointed this out when he said, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life." Now this was just as much true in the Old Testament as in the New. It has always been the case that one receives everlasting life by believing in Christ. Consider that John wrote in 1 John "I write these things that you may know you have everlasating life" speaking to those who had believed in Christ. The timing John referred to was: 1.Believe in Christ. 2.Receive everlasting life. 3.Know that you have everlasting life by virture of Christ. Faith is the means by which we receive Christ, and in Christ we receive life, everlasting life. This has always been the case, in both the Old and New Testaments. Consider Paul. Paul used Abraham as an example of righteousness by faith. What did Abraham receive by promise? 1.Righteousness 2.Everlasting life 3.Christ Himself ("I am thy exceeding great reward)". Paul argues that "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness". Abraham was justified by faith, and is the example of all who are justified by faith ("the father of all who believe"). So Abraham had to be justified by faith when he believed, not when Christ died, or else he could not have been referred to as righteouness, nor the example of those who believe. Here's another text which speaks of what it means to be righteous: Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; (Isa 51:7) To be righteous is to have the law written in the heart, which is the New Covenant, which happens when one believes in Christ. One final comment is that everlasting life is primarily a quality of life, not simply duration. Moses and Enoch and Elijah could not have been in heaven for a moment without everlasting life, so that could not wait for Christ to die before they received it.

Like many other spiritual debates, I guess time will tell who has this right, if it even matters. This debate will never be resolved in my lifetime.

She greeted me with a bright smile and a wave of her hand. Cheerful, as always. She is about the same age as my granddaughter-- 10 - 11 years. I greeted her and asked what she was doing. She smiled back at me. But she did not respond verbally, as I expected. About once a month, or less, I will get a one word response and once I had a three word response. When she dos respond verbally, I immediately rush to tell her mother so that we can all celebrate. You see, she has "angelman syndrome." She is always happy. But, she does not communicate by normal means. Let us all appreciate what gifts we have.

I watched the first 12 minutes. I didn't care for it...

Congratulations! I will have to admit I'll be more excited when she is born again, the birth where she has part in the choice. God is Love! Jesus saves!

There's a flaw in your logic, which I may return to later, but for now I'll just comment that if you use the phrase "spiritually alive" to mean "converted", which is how everyone understand the phrase, then by substituting "spiritually alive" for "converted" in your sentence, we have, "having faith can occur BEFORE conversion:" = "having faith can occur BEFORE being spiritually alive", which everyone agree with. So we're back to the same point, which is by "spiritually alive" you have some other thing in mind that nobody else does, and I doubt that anyone else understands what you mean, but the best I can make out is that it means "able to believe", so what you are saying is in essence that before one can believe, one must be able to believe.

It is quite striking to me that God's first "test" for sinless people involved a literal tree. A literal TREE ! The concept that the final "test" in this world will involve a literal DAY should not surprise anyone professing Christianity. God's big tests are often very simple... not complicated.

Her name is Mae. Mae Joy

They are interesting questions. Something which comes to mind is that Ellen White is simply relating what she saw. What she saw shouldn't necessarily be taken literally. We need to discern what's literal and what isn't, which often isn't so easy (consider all the debate over the 144,000 for example).

I think it says somewhere the trees were taken away, maybe after the cross.

Congratulations!

Congratulations!!!

congratulations!!

I'm 65 years old; and I still don't know what I want to be when/if I grow up. I pretty much followed my nose and took the path of least resistance through school (right - a double major in electrical engineering and math); and I've taken advantages of opportunites and leveraged setbacks all of my life. I have had times of need and times of plenty. It seemed like I was just "doing whatever happened" at the time; but looking back on my life, I can see God's leading all the way through it. I just fail to see it when it's happening real-time. The concept of having control over one's life is an illusion. True, we may have a certain amount of infuence, but we don't have control. Circumstance can steal that "control" we think we have at any given moment.

I have the same issue of a schizoid tyrannical childish God I see darkly. When I was younger these things were put on the back burner but affected my Image of HIM in prayer and discussions. When I caused a scandal at church and dropped out ..it was inconceivable that God faced me ...not turned away from me. Then I came across sermons and books telling me a different GOD. I didn't grow up with this God for decades. It is magnified on the CROSS. Loving and serving and even washing the feet of His Enemy! God Facing you! No matter what u did or do or will do. God is right there. In love with you. I believe the Prophets of old and new, filter God thru their limited understanding and tiny box of culture and society. And subsequently tell a fragmented Picture in pieces and perceptions. But when JESUS came we saw THE FULL Revelation Of His Character Saying 'I am Meek and Lowly and I love my enemies and bless them as the sun and the rain falls on all. The Mightiest Omni Omni says He is meek and lowly with Non Condemnation in His All seeing eyes tells me I am missing too much in the old stories. I am missing HIM in my filter. I'm using my own society and church driven glasses when looking at HIM. My sinfulness and arrogance and ignorance and hiding lends me to see GOD as a God of War. Not Reconciliation or Peace. Did it give me the answers to genocide and plagues and misogyny and homophobia and Lightning boltz? a tiny bit. But not enough to combat every huge question. But a succulent enough to keep digging into THE WORD and finding the Most Beautiful Being in all the Universes! Who is worthy. #If you see Me you see the Father. John 14:9

There is a time to speak and a time to keep silence... I guess in this part of Amos, like Pam mentioned in including the context of the preceding verses, it was his way of reiterating how bad the situation really was. And perhaps it was a bit unexpected on my part when I encountered it that it popped out at me. Currently I am reading through the HCSB, an easier-reading translation. One thing that this exercise has done for me is to bump into things I got maybe too accustomed to in the KJV. When something seems very different I feel like going to another, more literal translation such as Young's or the Emphasized to check it out. Sometimes an easy read will seem "way out there", but at other times they are backed up AND word the phrase in a way much more clear to me.