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I am not impressed either, except I cannot see disciples of Christ in either Catholic or Seventh Day Adventists that waste their time picking apart those of another persuasion. The Word is sufficient for the individual to find His Way into the Kingdom if it is read regularly with the purpose of lifting up Jesus. 32"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."....John 12 God is Love! Jesus saves!

A lot of bull...

About the Jewelry issue: If you get to visit the White estates (at least the one at Andrews) they have folders of different topics. It is interesting to read through them, including the Jewelry folder. On topic after topic you find the earliest topics simple and basic. Then you find starting around the 1920s people writing to a journal such as the Review "Since Adventist don't do this, why do they do that?" and there would be discussion on how this and that was so similar that since Adventist don't do this we should stop doing that. Once that settles down sure enough another person asks "Now that we don't do that anymore, what about this thing over here, isn't it close enough to that?" and like a rock thrown into a pond the circle of things we did not do just kept growing... With Jewelry the original issue was modesty and financial responsibility. To use money to save souls instead of making ourselves gaudy. Mrs. White said not to take it too far and used as an example that if you had a pin that set off a dress and made you and the dress look good she saw nothing wrong with wearing it. She also said that the wedding ring issue should be up to each individual. Well, after the horrible 1923 General Conference when good sense was thrown out and Fundamentalism and conservatism was put in it's place, people latched on almost everything that Mrs. White said over our history as the final word of God, and some topics such as the Jewelry topic took on a life of their own. (Of course they forgot about Mrs. White's statements that said that the wedding ring should be up to the individual and that wearing something like a pin that sets off a dress is not objectionable, or limited Jewelry to specifically the pin because that was the one item Mrs. White named). Another issue related to this thread. As Mrs. White grew older she had much more fellowship with those of other faiths and actually became a very popular preacher on Sunday mornings in Sunday keeping churches. But earlier as the churches were falling into either modernism or extreme fundamentalism she warned NEW believers that it was best to avoid going to the Sunday keeping churches. And after 1923 reading those statements from a fundamentalist viewpoint seeing it as the final word of God we again took it into a direction that Mrs. White did not practice in her own life.

Our eternal life depends on making the right choice through "free will". Thus I choose Jesus. The mechanism behind this choice, I don't think anyone on this planet can explain. How the brain works is currently a mystery. So for as long as I am under the delusion that I have free choice, I continue to choose Jesus. I also choose to love Him, worship Him, be grateful to Him...

...sure wish I could *hide* the Politics section... I find it to be rather malignant to the notion of civility...

{whisper: if EGW's endorsement of Bishop Ussher's chronology is accurate we're already almost 2 decades into the 7th millennium}

I don't think your rant is coherent: an all-out war made Iraq worse, but will make Syria better? Or is it purely about America remaining the biggest aggressor in the world? As I think someone said above: best outcome for America is likely to withdraw and leave Russia to it. Reverse what Russia did with Afghanistan...

I attended an AA meeting to observe for a class I was taking some years ago. I had the immediate feeling that this is how a prayer meeting should be. Folks were accepting, respectful, eager to hear, and receive the experiences of others. They treated me as if I had been there a thousand times before. The meeting room as grubby and smelly but I felt comfortable. I said nothing for the whole meeting but three people came to me and offered their numbers just in case I needed anything. It was humbling and inspiring. We have much to learn.

Two people in this thread have cited a peson who writes under the name of Qasim Rashid. In my opinion, that was a poor choice. I do not believe that QR either represents mainline Islam or that he has been accurate in what he says in the entire article, which has not been quoted in this thread. Yet, he is at least partially correct. QR cites Quran 33:36. I will suggest that he did so on the assumption that no one would actually check it out to see what the Quran actually says in that verse. I do not understand it as saying what QR suggests it says. In addition, mainline Islamic scholars also do not see in that verse what QR claims to see. However, QR is partially correct in the tolerance that he says Islam teaches for other religions. The Quran is clearly tolerant of the people it calls "People of the Book." That phrase is a code for Christians and Jews. QR is also correct in his suggestion that the violence that that is often seen in Islam is directed against those who are attempting to wage war against Islam and take their lives. NOTE: I also believe that dr. Carson fails to understand Islam.

Years ago, Chere Peters , the Host of CELEBRATE RECOVERY on 3ABN ...came to a big SDA Church for a weekend Seminar (a few towns away from me)....And that Church started a 12 step group to meet every Thursday Night. The Ministers wife set the tone. If someone was being real and sharing a deep pain. She would panic and had to give you a "Jesus loves U" sticker or sign. Like that would make everything go away. And God forbid you would talk about the same real pain next week. . It was her missionary Christian job to fix you (many good Christian mindsets when it becomes too uncomfortable ...just sayin). Of course the SDA Christian Culture also had to correct you with scriptures. Cross Talking* is a strict no no in many 12 step groups. But not here! Along with the constant accessing of everyone's spiritual walk of the general group was always taking place. God, our Christian Culture can be so TOXIC. We started with like 15 people and by the time it ended it was down 3. ..so unsafe. Towards the end it just got real shallow and tense. I confronted the Ministers wife with a letter I wrote (very early on about Cross Talk and the importance of not quoting bible verses/principles when someone shares something in their lives not measuring up to the 28 fundamental believes). And it went over her head. Towards the end I became more direct about just letting people share and sit quietly and not judging**. Of course by that time I was so irate by her constant spiritual abuse.. it showed in my eyes and voice. Then she had a real problem with me. So What! .. I was trying to save this supposed Ship in the Harbor ! I needed a Christian group that I can actually feel SAFE in. When I stopped going .. the group quit altogether cause it was down to TWO PEOPLE! Few people did speak up very timidly thru this eight month period. But I was more brazen cause this Church was a few towns away and I didn't go to this Church to face the weekly concussions/gossip. Also I know how 12 step groups supposed to look like. It was so bad. and tragically so sad. What a mess. Another thing I witnessed was the Church Politics of holding office and gossip. A Lady told me she stopped going cause there was a real issue of her husband's neglect and whatnot(list is long) but couldn't talk about it cause her mother in law is sitting right there. We all were stifled for one reason another. I remember one night I'm giving a Praise Report of of my sisters childhood boyfriend/neighbor who got cancer just after he became a Christian (as a very young adult) and he died still with an addiction to chewing tobacco. And what an amazing funeral Service/Witness to my non Christian parents (they watched this cowboy grow up) we had ! Well The Ministers Wife got irrated cause he didn't have the victory and calling into question his salvation (?) and went on about the evils of blah blah and soon another Lady joined in too. Calling sin by it's right name! Looking back I see it was a divergent tactic to prevent talk about the real stuff in our lives. Talking about others works very well. Sound familiar anyone? The 12 Step Principles are biblical and we all our Sinners and come short and have JESUS as our Higher power. but in the wrong hands it can take you down. *Cross Talk refers to people speaking out of turn, interrupting someone while they are speaking or giving direct advice to someone in a meeting. ** She didn't think she was judging..how dare I say that to her.. When someone tries to fix you you can bet they JUDGED you first. And more than one person told her that it wasn't our job to fix people but to listen and to look for identifying with them in their stories and learning from another in our beautiful tragic commonality ..well anyhoooooooo

The individual that Phkruse referenced has been very open about his past history and the spiritual journey that he has taken. And, yes, he does post in CA. As I know him very well, I will give a very brief statement of his past. Actually it is more complex than I am posting. 1) He did graduate from a SDA College. 2) He did become a Lutheran clergyperson. 3) He did leave the Lutheran denomination and become a Roman Catholic lay person, and was employed for several years by a division of the Roman Catholic Church, as a lay person. 4) He did leave the Roman Catholic Church and became an ordained SDA minister, several years later. 5) He is presently a SDA clergyperson who is employed by the North American Division. 6) The woman he married while attending the SDA College remains his wife, and has remained an active SDA member during the entire time that I have covered above. All of us have a spiritual journey that we walk. Sometimes that journey goes in strange directions. But, through it all, God has a purpose and is attempting to lead and direct. I must say blessings on the woman who remained with him throughout the years of his journey.