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OCTOBER 5, 2015BY DEAN JAMES High School Principal Cancels ‘American Pride Day’… Here’s The Students EPIC Response This is the United States Of AMERICA! We respect our country and we respect our heritage. We also respect our flag. Our country didn’t become the greatest nation in the world easily. It has taken blood, sweat, tears and the ultimate sacrifices to become what we are. We are proud and have the right to celebrate the greatness of our country, right? When people move to our country from their cesspools they need to assimilate. But liberals don’t agree. They go out of their way not to offend them. Look, I don’t give a [censored] if they are offended. Get the hell out if you don’t like it here. Period. FOX is reporting that Wyoming students staged a patriotic protest against their high school’s decision not to hold “America day” during its homecoming week. Juniors and seniors at Jackson Hole High School wrapped American flags around their shoulders, sported stars-and-stripes clothing, and drove a diesel truck bearing the flag around the school parking lot. Administrator Mike Hansen said they decided to go with an alternate theme after some students expressed concerns that the event made some students feel “targeted and singled out.” Principal Scott Crisp suggested that the name of the event was the problem, pointing to a student survey that showed many students were against it. In an open letter, Crisp said that student council leaders and administration discussed alternative ways to name the day “Patriot Day” or “Heritage Day” to be inclusive. Both of these days were declined by JHHS Student Council leaders. Parents like Ted Dawson took to Facebook to protest the decision. The school instead decided to hold a “College Day,” though some students felt that was discriminatory against those who cannot afford to attend college. These students should be saluted for standing up for the American flag and their patriotism!

I think one of the issues is that no one person can speak for all of Islam. Can one person speak for all of Christianity? We need to draw on a variety of perspectives, views and input... and to avoid confirmation bias, and to seek perspectives that challenge us. As a general rule, I'd sooner listen to a Christian talk about Christianity than a Muslim talk about Christianity, and in the same way in general I'd prefer to listen to a Muslim talk about Islam than to a Christian talk about Islam. I'd prefer to listen to a mainstream Christian preacher than a member of Westboro Baptist, and I'd prefer to listen to a mainstream mullah than a member of Daesh, when it comes to understanding the tenets of a faith. Is it possible to find people saying intemperate things about any faith? Sure. But when deciding whether those things represent the whole or majority of that faith, we need to be careful that the same rules apply for the in-group as for the out-group.

It seems you are making a distinction between "you" and "your brain". This distinction needs to be better established/documented, because as I see it, "I" am "my brain". Without the brain one does not exist/??/... So to imply that "I" try to make decisions contrary to "my brain" does not compute, because the one is the other. Also, it seems you are assuming that "free choice" applies, or should apply to, ABSOLUTELY EVERY ASPECT of existence. If you can demonstrate that "free choice" does not apply to "situation A" then we have not "free choice" at all. I, for one, would reject that premise. Of course, like jballew7 said, ...this is [also] a little beyond my [expertise]. But curious, none the less.

Unfortunately, these students apparently had no clue whatsoever of American Flag laws. The United States Code Title 36. Chapter 10. Section D, states in part, "(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery." If they want to protest, the students really ought to know what they're actually doing, and how their actions can negate their intent.

I agree and hophope He does cme soon.

what I REALLY don't like is that the baboons from Westboro Baptist Church have announced that they will be picketing the funerals of the Umpqua massacre victims..

Perhaps no nation but Russia is really interested in destroying ISIS. It would actually only take a few short weeks, not the many years that some liars forecast.

GRANTS PASS, Ore. -- A church community in Grants Pass is sharing their thoughts about the life of one of the victims in the deadly Umpqua Community College Shooting in Roseburg.Sarena Dawn Moore, 44, was a long-time member of the Grants Pass Seventh Day Adventist Church. Pastor Christian Martin said that the community, and her family, are finding comfort in knowing Moore was committed to her faith.“She was a firm believer in prayer and she was quick to give God all the credit,” Pastor Martin said.He believes Moore hung on to her faith as she found herself in the middle of terror on the UCC campus last Thursday. She's one of nine people who the gunman shot to death inside of a classroom. “I was just heartbroken, devastated…The gunman was in sensitive, senseless, and had no heart really,” Pastor Martin explained.Moore became a member of the church in 2008. “When the possibility for her to enroll as a student at UCC, she asked for a lot of prayer and God opened up the doors for her,” Pastor Martin said.Moore stayed in touch with her Grants Pass church community after she moved to the Roseburg area in 2013 to study business. “She looked at the positive perspectives even in difficult challenging circumstances,” Pastor Martin said.Moore had recently started using a wheelchair to get around. Pastor Martin said she was sitting in it when she was shot. “She even had her dog with her in the classroom,” Pastor Martin explained about Moore’s service dog that, in a strange twist of irony, is named Bullet. Pastor Martin said the dog was not hurt in the massacre and is reunited with Moore’s family. Moore’s affection for animals extended beyond her dog to horses, and critters of all kinds. She was also a mother to three adult sons. Pastor Martin says the pain of losing her is lessened by believing what his church teaches: “It's not goodbye forever. It's goodbye until then."Two memorial services are planned for Moore. One in Myrtle Creek and one in Grants Pass. Her family has asked through Pastor Martin that the details of those are kept private. Pastor Martin said anyone who needs those details should call the office at the Grants Pass Seventh Day Adventist Church. http://www.katu.com/news/local/Church-pastor-remembers-UCC-shooting-victim-Sarena-Moore-330985982.html

Exactly jballew7 great post

I hope they've changed. It had been on their page yesterday morning. I have a feeling the Roseburg loggers would turn them into chickenfeed if they showed up.

I applaud them! Some of the comments were rather typical. We can either look at the positives of life or live in fear of the negative.

If they do that it is really sick !!! I just checked their web site and picket schedule and it is not listed. I pray that if they even considered doing such a horrific act that they have changed their minds.

Yup; I believe that, unless we see an untimely death, we will be here for the Second Coming. I used to fear the time of trouble (I'm still concerned about it); but I prefer to look at the "they all lived happily forever" (and ever, and ever) part. I think many "true believers" throughout the NT have expected Jesus to come in their life time. Peter and Paul believed it. The Waldenses believed it. SDA Pioneers believed it. Even if we don't expect Him to return in our lifetime, I think we all want Him to come. Imagine how glorious it will be! I confess to being a sign watcher (no suprise to anyone here). If signs come and go without incident, I don't get disappointed; I thank God for His mercy and patience with us. While I DO understand the risks of "crying wolf" a lot, I also realize the consequences of NOT bringing attention to potential signs; and being accused of not "blowing a trumpet in Zion". Just as a sidebar, I DON'T believe that the "7 years" have yet started; and I don't believe Sunday laws will be the crisis that brings on the end times (I admit I could be mistaken). Friday laws, maybe ...

I won't lie, this is a little beyond my specialty. I'm not a biologist or a doctor, but I can tell you this. You claimed "science" says this or that. Sciences says I came from a primoradial ooze and then evolved from an ape. Dosent mean I believe it. If our choices are based ONLY by previous expirence or pre existing layers; then why did Eve choose to eat the fruit? She had no previous expirence in this, she had never even sinned. Besides before that her and Adams choices were in harmony with God's will. If your post is true wouldn't she would have based her decision on all those previous expirences of obeying God? Instead she did something that had never been done, at least not on Earth. Look at it this way, ALL her previous choices up until that point had been good ones. If we're basing that our choices on made on pre existing layers why did she do something so contrary to her previous pre existing layers?

Consider the source and then use common sense! There are actually a lot of sources for finding out the facts, after one excludes all of those with agenda's, which can be difficult at best. I really don't get to excited about political news, as there is almost always an agenda.

This is what far means Time Magazine Report: Low-Pay Jobs Replace High-Pay Jobs Since Recession Charlotte Alter @charlottealter April 28, 2014 Keith Bedford—ReutersA diner sits next to a help wanted sign at a McDonalds restaurant in the Brooklyn borough of New York, on March 7, 2014.A new report by the National Employment Law Project finds that unsteady economic recovery has been powered by the replacement of high-earning jobs lost in the recession with low-paying positions in the service industry Even as the economy has slowly emerged from the worst downturn since the Great Depression, job growth since 2008 has come predominantly in the form of low-wage service industry jobs replacing high-earning jobs lost in the recession, according to a new report. Although employment rates have roughly reached pre-recession levels, most of the jobs gained since 2008 have been in lower-wage industries, according to a report from theNational Employment Law Project. Lower-wage industries accounted for 22% of recession job losses, but are responsible for 44% of the hiring in the recovery. There are now almost two million more low-wage workers than there were at the start of the recession, according to the report. High-wage jobs accounted for 41% of job losses but have only grown 30% since the recession, and mid-wage jobs made up 37% of job losses but only 26% of recent employment growth. That means there are almost two million fewer high- and mid-wage jobs than there were before the 2008 collapse, according to the report. After 49 consecutive months of jobs growth, employment levels are roughly back to where they were before the collapse. The growth in low-wage jobs has been powered in part by retail and by the food and beverage industry. The report focused on the private sector, but local government employment has declined by 627,000 jobs since the recession, with 44% of those losses taken from local education.

And if he doesn't go, we'll have the others ask why he didn't go!! So we're back to it doesn't matter what he does!! Its not good enough for those that don't like him, etc., etc., etc.!!

Hi All Below I have quoted Rev 20. The bits in blue tell me that there are peoples on earth during the millennium. I believe Satan is locked in an abyss (this could be the bottom of the ocean or outer space - I don't know) to keep him from deceiving the nations who are living on earth under Christ's rule. Verse 3 tells me plainly that there are nations on earth whom Satan is prevented from deceiving. It is only if you conclude that "the abyss" is on earth (which must be what Ellen believed) that one could conclude that there are no people on earth. The abyss may be at the bottom of the ocean, in which case both Satan and people could be on earth and never the twain shall meet. How can one use the term "and reigned with Christ a thousand years" (vs 4) if there are no nations to rule over? And were the disciples not promised that in the regeneration they would each rule over a tribe of Israel? (Matt 19:28). Notice too that by the end of the millennium, the nations cover the four quarters of the earth (meaning there is no place uninhabited) and that their numbers are as "the sand of the sea". I believe these numbers are swelled by those resurrected after the thousand years are past (vs 5). And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Furious Roseburg Residents to Obama: ‘The President is Not Welcome Here’ 06Oct, 2015by Terresa Monroe-Hamilton -16+ The publisher of a conservative newspaper in Roseburg, Oregon, aptly entitled the Roseburg Beacon, David Jaques, has some advice for Obama, who plans on visiting the Umpqua Community College where a murderous psychotic gunned down nine Christians last week… don’t bother. He’s not welcome there. And I’ll bet a whole bunch of people share that sentiment. Especially after Obama’s remarks politicizing the shooting. No one there wants Obama using a tragedy to score political points. It’s disgusting and evil. All to push gun control. Jacques said in an interview that any visit by the President would be “a campaign stop for an agenda to take away American citizen’s right to own firearms.” Jaques said the area is proud of Sheriff John Hanlin, who he said “put the administration on notice that if you pass any laws, edicts or executive actions that are either unconstitutional or extra-constitutional, they will not be enforced in Douglas County.” Hanlin has been savaged by the liberal national press after his letter to Vice President Joe Biden opposing gun control came to light. Figures. Obama should do everyone a favor and cancel his trip to sponge off the grief of those families Friday. From the Daily Mail:

Economically, the country is *far* better off than it was 7 years ago.

Joe, say it ain't so? You bought into the political rhetoric? You've been around along enough to know that its always the 'other party'that is at fault for what ever perceived ills there are. That is why our government has so much difficulty in leading. Everyone wants their way and to be reelected. Ever heard of congress, what is the current majority? Don't make any difference, it will still be the Pres's fault! If the party not in power were to do the same thing as the current, Republicans would be saying, look at what we accomplish and the Democrats would be complaining! 1. Better! 2.Excuse me..we don't rule the world! Again, Americans being arrogant. 3. Not responsible for religious freedom in the rest of the world! This country, no change! (unless some want the local and state governments to control 'religious freedom') Fact checking is important.

Fact check much?!?!

Okay, I repent using the word "righteous"; - that just seems to be the attitude of those who think the U.S should be the world police; but I don't repent of using the term "superpower" (although I may have to use that term in the past tense). And LR is correct - much of the rest of the world views the U.S. as an imperialist bully. I also agree that if the U.S. is not going to step up its game and utterly destroy ISIS and its allies, that we should just get out and let Russia do it. Either way, there will be unintended adverse circumstances. I do get out a lot. It is a Democrat administration that is telling us we are beating back ISIS. It is a Democrat administration that is tying the military's hands and preventing them from doing what solldiers do; and firing any military leaders who disagree. It is a Democrat who is pushing to make gun ownership illegal, so only people who do illegal thingswill have guns. It is a Democrat administration that is paying roughly $1 Million per trainee to train rebels to "fight" ISIS. It is the weapons sent by a Democratic administration that are ending up in ISIS hands. How much better off are you now after 7 years of Democrat Leadership? How much better off is the world after 7 years of Democrat Leadership? How much more religious freedom exists in the world (indeed - in the U.S.) after 7 years of Democrat leadership? I may be arrogant to think that Republicans or Libertarians could do a better job; but it's not arrogant to face the facts. This country and the world are worse off after 7 years of Democrat leadership. The only groups who have prospered under this administration are politicians, despots, and Islam.

A righteous superpower? Seriously, a "righteous superpower"?? What's next? Manifest Destiny, perhaps? Just for the record, the Obama admin, DID NOT destroy "our country's reputation as a righteous superpower." because that is NOT the reputation it has or had. Certainly not outside the US, at any rate.

Don't get out much? You know everyone's opinion and are the judge of its validity? A rather arrogant statement. The same people who were protesting the loss of American lives in Iraq, now think we should still be there. They want to run their own country, not us. The days of colonialism are over. We, US, can't fix the whole world, it comes down to what benefits, directly the USA. Just a fact of life. It's not longer about who is the biggest bully on the block. What is righteous about being a superpower....suffer the little children to come unto me for such is the kingdom of heaven....

Zechariah 14 COULD be a dual prophecy. After all, Jerusalem has been destroyed many times, and will be destroyed again. I personally believe that Jerusalem will be "the great whore" of Revelation 19, and she WILL fall when the 10 kings "burn her with fire". Verse 15, with the plague on horses, camels, and mules, doesn't sound like something the LORD would do. So I don't think this is speaking about the Gog/magog Battle AFTER the 1000 years. I do believe it is speaking of the fall of Jerusalem, attacked by "the nations" 10 kings. "The family of Egypt" is a metaphor for the "mixed multitude". There was a mixed multitude when Nehemiah led the captives back to the land from Babylon. And I believe "the rest of the dead" will constitute another "mixed multitude". I think we agree, there will be an attempted rebellion against the rule of Christ, just before the Gog/Magog Battle - which takes place during the 8th millennium. Ezekiel describes a 7 month clean up after the Gog/Magog Battle, with bones being collected and taken to a certain City set aside for this purpose.

Rachel wrote: Hi Wingnut, Luv your handle. Anyway. From Revelation 20:5 concerning "the rest of the dead", they "lived not again" for 1000 years. So how can they go up to Jerusalem for the Feasts DURING the 7th millennium? "The rest of the dead" are the "nations which are in the four corners of the earth." Wingnut responded: Hi Rachel Below I have posted Zechariah 14. At Christ's second coming, after the battle of Armageddon, His feet stand on the mount of Olives (vs 4). Verse 9 says that He (Christ) will be king over all the earth during the millennium. Verse 16 says they keep the Feast during the Millennium. Where is there any hint that this is NOT at His second coming? Why would anyone think that this describes after the Millennium? There are people around the globe who have survived the last 7 vial plagues of Revelation, and they are the seed who multiply as mortals throughout the Millennium. The rest of the dead who have lived through past societies which have never heard the one and only name whereby they might be saved, are resurrected from the dead at the end of the Millennium as Rev 20:5 states. I do not know if it is from verse 11 that Ellen figured that all people would be destroyed at His second coming. But the rest of this chapter clearly shows that there is a remnant left alive at His second coming. Only SDA's of all folks who believe in the second coming, believe in an uninhabited earth during the Millennium. Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 4. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 9. And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. 10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11 11. And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. 12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague. 16 16. And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

Regarding the glory of God: Given the glory of God is His character (Ex. 33:18,19), and Christ has the same character as the Father, their respectively glory is the same. "When you've seen Me, you've seen the Father".

You may be right that there is a difference between normal trinitarian views and SDA trinitarian views. A table of similarities and differenced would help. I thought it was a clear-cut, boolean issue of whether the Holy Spirit IS or IS NOT a separate being with unique thoughts and personality and identity just as I see Christ and the Father as having.

Thank you for responding so nicely! I've heard people say that one of the reasons that they left not only the church but faith in God...was the scary "time of trouble" sermons that they heard from the pulpit or at home or school. I've known so many people that moved to Idaho to "leave the cities" and many years later they have died or gotten old and moved back to the place they left. My fifth grade teacher and her husband did this. So many people afraid while there is actually a lot of work and people to influence left behind. What I remember is how Jesus often would say, "Fear NOT." "Look up." Ellen White during the later part of her life wrote that "we are living in the time of trouble"... (paraphrased) What about the Civil War, the wars all over Europe, the 1st WW, the 2ndWW, Korean,Viet Nam, and of course in our present time the wars raging in the Middle East...what about them could not been said is a "time of trouble"? I am not looking with fear into the future for "a time of trouble like it never was before"... I believe that I'm living in such a time. For now our country has not suffered in the same ways that other peoples have... but, I'm sure it is coming sooner than later. I just don't think that a clear concise message has been taught for several years. How many homes receive Liberty Magazine? Important stuff! What about the beast that is roaring and now is determined to "cause the whole world" to do it's bidding and follow it's example. We have all been taught that the USA is going to control all that happens in the world for a period of time. How do SDA's think that is going to happen...just suddenly without warning our government is going to pass Sunday laws? When do Adventists stop thinking that God and country are intertwined? For some the melding of patriotism with church is so strong I wonder when it really becomes obvious what "State" is up to...that it will be too late for some. I'm afraid for some the flag and the Pledge have become idols. This is what has happened all over this country with the citizens and their "love it or leave it" mentality. OOops... I've made too long an answer, I'm afraid. I believe you know just what I mean.

As a 75 year old raised and schooled SDA I've been very aware of all sorts of warnings that signs were telling of Sunday laws right upon us. Popes issuing decrees, without anyone asking how that could effect the laws of this land. No one looking at what Ellen White actually wrote about the condition of the world and who the big players were to be. Am I mistaken... did she not say that Protestant America would be the force and power that would make laws to try to govern the morals of this country? That it would be Protestant America that would be the driving force to bring about Sunday laws? And did she not hint or even say that it would be Protestant American that was no longer Protesting that would reach across the gulf to embrace the Papacy? Now if it is signs you are wanting to see...what sign is clearer these days that politicians trying to act as preachers...preaching a false religion of hate, discrimination, the wealthy inheriting the earth and not the meek and mild and poor. That all societies troubles would be over if only we had the Ten Commandments in every courthouse,city council and civic chambers, schools, Congress. That prayer in school would make out of every student an upright citizen. All would be wonderful with the Biblical laws of the Old Testament enforced on all the land and around the world. Perhaps the words: Dominionism and Reconstructionism are new to you. They shouldn't be, but I've not seen much printed about them in SDA literature except for Liberty Magazine. Instead of getting all fired up every time a Pope writes or speaks...how about learning what the Right Wing zealots want to usher in. They are not going to be satisfied until the government that exists now is destroyed and is replaced by a Theocracy. Then when that happens...you can count on the fact that there will be Sunday laws. You can also count on the fact that the first people they go after will not be Sabbath believing Christians. They are going to go for the Unbeliever, Atheist, Agnostic, Liberal (oh so hated by the right wing), Humanist, Progressive citizens. Since they won't have everything all cleaned up ready for the coming of Jesus to reign on this earth... they will go after the citizens of the world that are the "others" of different beliefs than Christians. Ellen White says that "the whole world will be converted to their cause". So probably we could expect that rather than risk what has happened to other non-believers..they will convert. We are told that laws regarding worship on Sunday are really going to happen very near to the time that Jesus walks out of the Temple in heaven and says it is finished. That is the time that he gathers his angels together to come and rescue his people from the grave and from those that want to destroy the living because of their faith. It is after ridding or converting the whole world, that they are going to go after those Christians that do not accept their doctrines... that group of stubborn Seventh day believers and those that are sympathetic to them.

It appears that Jesus Christ will return to Earth to rescue his followers just before the planet experiences an extinction event where human life is no longer sustainable on the planet. Massive meteoric bombardment is a strong possibility along with massive worldwide vulcanism, not to mention weapons of mass destruction unleashed by the Dark Side to kill off humankind. Something very large may come between Earth and Sun, maybe it's just the moon, but total solar eclipses can only be viewed in relatively small areas for relatively short times.

Earlier this year I was visiting a Christian friend and saw he had that book.. And I have a big mouth and it slipped out before I could stop. "Why do you have a book by this guy? This is nonsense" ..err something like that. I could tell he didn't like what I said. I almost said worse. Like he is a fraud and the vibes I get thru his TV show is nuthin good. So for the last so many months.. I would hear him and just listen. I already made my point. Then Yesterday I pounced BIG TIME! And he realizes now it was all dribble. That book flew off the Christian book stores like candy and made John Hagee even more more money than we can imagine.

I have to disagree. It is not that I am blowing it out of proportion. When you have Adventist evangalists on TV and in books etc making this a main focus of their work it IS a problem. I mean Veith in on TV around the world spouting his nonsense about Islam. That is a huge problem. No Walter Veith does have a lot of problems in the way he does things. And yes his most controversa stuff he does kinda put as an open question. But only after trying to push the false information about it. He is doing lots of damage. No I do not think it will be a world conspiracy at the end of time. Ellen White talks about it the other way around. It will be the common people pushing the government to make the Sunday law etc. We do not need conspiracy theories. All of the events can be explained by things in the open. As you read more and more about history and learn about the men you can see their beliefs and goals. And these perfectly explain the events that happened. Next post... The difference is she never talked in other terms about the evil jewish bankers running the world and the illumanati etc. She does talk about the catholic churches idea they are the one with God given power on earth. And basic history of what Jesuits have done. But read how she does this then compare it with Veith etc. It is very very very different. As for the Jesuits creating futurism it is never really as cut and dried as presented. Yes Francisco Ribera was a key player. No not all of the ideas started with him. And there were a lot of reasons why the later protestants adopted these false views. And none of this is hidden it just part of history. That is why you have The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers that relies on historical sources not conspiracy theory books. And that is why is is not filled with talk of say evil jewish bankers etc. As for the Adventist pioneers some of then had some false beliefs that did not agree with Ellen White. For example on the trinity.