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i would tell them that he was the church, and if he has not apostatized the church has not apostatized. The church is the body of Christ, that Christ himself cares for. If there is apostasy there, Jesus will deal with it. Just as Jesus dealt with Judas we are to be kindly to those in Spiritual trouble.

The answer from a professional counseling standpoint is: You do not attempt to answer the person. The list of their alleged offenses in not the central issue. Here is what you do: 1) You shut your mouth and you begin to listen to the person. 2) Listen for the hurt (injury) that has caused the break in the relationship. 3) You attempt to get the person to identify and acknowledge that hurt. Once you have done that you have reached a place where there is a potential for you to assist in the healing process. Here is the rational: 1) People seldom leave over doctrine. 2) People leave over relationships and spiritual injury. 3) When this is the case, getting into an intellectual argument over perceived wrongs (doctrine and policy) is seldom helpful. All such discussions confirm people in the harm that has been done to them. NOTE: My answer is specific to the question asked and the way it was worded. There is a place for a discussion of doctrine, policy, practice and life style. But, that discussion often should be limited.

Once again, every bit of what is quoted above can and does apply to music across the broad spectrum of genres of music. One can say these things about whatever style of music is a part of worship. I have seen/heard and experienced music of many styles, "rightly employed", sung as a "prayer" that has mightily "impressed the heart with spiritual truth". And I have seen/heard and experienced music of all genres going down the negative path these quotes seem to be talking about. The problem with these quotes as being used here, is that we really don't know exactly what music she is specifically talking about. We seem to automatically assume the music that is a blessing that she speaks of is the kind of music that we believe has blessed us, the music that fits our own taste in music. And conversely, the music that she is critical of that she says is the tool of the devil we assume to be specifically that which we don't like and that does not touch our souls with deep spiritual truth. It is like comparing the taste of our favorite food by just talking about the taste in very broad terms, but not really experiencing it or actually saying what food we are talking about. "Yummy" "Oh that tastes too delicious." "The ingredients were of the best quality with high nutritional value." "That was a very well planned and well balanced meal, perfection on a plate!" "The savory goodness of that bite was just exquisite!" "But the bite from that dish really left a bitter aftertaste." "This lovingly prepared dish was my favorite. The presentation was appealing to the eye. The texture was perfectly balanced with the flavors. And every bite was bursting with a symphony of flavors that delighted my palate from start to finish..." Did you really understand or even know what kind of food I was talking about? Could you tell anything about the actual food that would help you enjoy it, plan and prepare it for yourself, or pick it out of a vast array of food? Pretty much meaningless, isn't it?

Get real, Red! Did I say that? NO! I said your salvation depends on your relationship with Jesus Christ. Is it reasonable that someone who is worshipping at the church of satan would have a real relationship with Jesus? I think not. Getting back to the subject, I appreciated Gregory's advice, as did you. The point I was trying to make in the above statement is that - at least from my experience - there is no "perfect" church. We can always find things that are "wrong". As a faithful watchman, you see areas of darkness at your church. I have seen those in every church I have ever frequented. You may be the only moderating influence in your church. If you leave where you are, it may become an even darker place. Dark places need light. Maybe God has placed you in that church to shine a light into the darkness. You may not need that particular congregation; but they may need you - whether they perceive it or not. After all, the body of Christ is to be a refuge for sinners as well as a sanctuary for saints. When you view it from a spiritual perspective, you carry your home church with you - in your heart - for you are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Wherever you are, you are at your home church. You carry it with you wherever you go. Blessings and peace to you. May the peace and love of Jesus Christ soothe your soul and remove your pain and discouragement.

There have been a lot of changes made to God's Law and timeline over the years that were not approved of by God, such as the seventh day Sabbath change to the first day. It is hard to pinpoint somethings in God's timeline but thank God we are not saved by these things. All these changes will be corrected in the millennium and those who love God and are truly seeking to know His will will be in the millennium where the the Law of God will be taught without corruption. There won't be a different denomination on every street corner. Kings and priests won't be corrupt and Satan will be out of the way. Praise God for that time but until then we all look through a glass darkly.

Actually, I am not inclined to rely on luni-solar calendar dates in use during Jesus' time, since, as Gregory ably pointed out, there were two different calendars, and could have exhibited two different dates for the same full moon. As to the other reason why I say Jesus kept Passover on the night of the full moon, I have mentioned in my post that Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law and that obviously includes the law on when Passover is to be kept. Here’s the instructions: Numbers 9:2-3 2 "Let the children of Israel keep the Passover at its appointed time. 3 "On the fourteenth day of this month, at twilight, you shall keep it at its appointed time. According to all its rites and ceremonies you shall keep it." And that appointed time is the full moon: NKJ Psalm 81:3-5 3 Blow the trumpet at the time of the New Moon, At the full moon, on our solemn feast day. 4 For this is a statute for Israel, A law of the God of Jacob. 5 This He established in Joseph as a testimony, When He went throughout the land of Egypt, Where I heard a language I did not understand.

Date of our Lord's Crucifixion, month and date in 31 AD. Passover is a full moon feast. This is why God Who created the sun, the earth and the moon, instructed that Passover meal be eaten in the evening after sunset of the 14th day of the first month of the Hebrew luni-solar calendar. God so designed the sun, earth and moon that the average period for one lunar cycle, that is from new moon to the next new moon, is on the average 29 days 12 hours and 44 minutes. One half of this is the period from new moon to full moon. This is roughly 14 days 18 hours and 22 minutes. This is why after sunset on the 14th of the month in a luni-solar calendar is always a full moon. What a wonderful Creator. He created His silent witnesses in the firmament above, to guide us to the day and month and year when His Son was crucified! He so designed the sun, earth and moon allowing Passover to be celebrated in the evening after sunset of the 14th of the first month, on a full moon night: NKJ Psalm 81:3-5 3 Blow the trumpet at the time of the New Moon, At the full moon, on our solemn feast day. 4 For this is a statute for Israel, A law of the God of Jacob. 5 This He established in Joseph as a testimony, When He went throughout the land of Egypt, Where I heard a language I did not understand. Christ ate Passover with His disciples on the same night He was arrested. He celebrated that Passover a day ahead of the Jewish national celebration. The day that immediately followed, He was crucified. So on what date was that? Passover is a spring festival celebrated in the month Abib or Nisan. Abib is a term used to describe the stage of ripening of barley where at the time of Passover is almost ready for harvest. This explains why just about 5 days before Passover, at the time of the outpouring in Egypt of the plague of hail, the barley was smitten while the wheat was spared because it ripens late. Exodus 9:31-32 31 And the flax and the barley was smitten: for the barley was in the ear, and the flax was bolled. 32 But the wheat and the rie were not smitten: for they were not grown up. The word “ear” in v31 is from the Hebrew bybia' (Abib). Ripening of barley usually occurs not earlier than the spring equinox. The spring or vernal equinox is an imaginary point in the sky where the sun crosses the celestial equator in her journey from the south to the northern hemisphere. It occurs not earlier than March 19 nor later than Mar 21. Passover, being a full moon festival, is always on the first full moon AFTER the vernal equinox. Unlike new moon sightings, full moon occurrences can now be easily determined with precision forward or backward in time. To determine the date of Christ’s crucifixion, all we have to do is trace back the first full moon after the spring equinox in 31 AD. That full moon was when Jesus ate Passover with His disciples that same night He was arrested. He was crucified the daytime that came, when the Jews were still preparing for their national celebration of Passover. Chances are, the official horizon observer for crescent sightings in Jerusalem may have first observed the young crescent late by a day, thus causing the start of the new month late by a day likewise. But Jesus through Whom the Father created the sun, earth and moon, can NEVER lose track of when full moon will occur that paschal week. And He Who said He came to fulfill the Law, which obviously includes the law on when Passover is to be celebrated, ate Passover with His disciples on the dot: on a full moon night. The first full moon after the spring equinox was on March 27, 31 AD, Tuesday. Jesus was crucified Wednesday, March 28, 31 AD. (Note: I leave it to the reader to verify the date of the full moon occurrence. But references will be provided, if requested) Next post: The Date of the Lord’s Resurrection.

That well known lefty policy: "believes in the importance of sending troops into foreign countries in order to maintain order therein". I think you'll find the rest of the world started opposing Hitler when he annexed Poland, not when it came out what was happening in the concentration camps. Hitler was to the left on some issues and to the right on others. American-supported Pinochet was on the right on almost everything and was a horrendous dictator. Does that invalidate any rightwing issues? Guilt by association is no argument at all against specific policies.

Was thinking the same thing. And lets not forget about Easter!!

I hear Christians say the very same thing about Christmas. hmm... God understands and knows the intent of each hearts regarding holidays. All People don't. BTW nice to see you. May the Joy of the LORD be Your Strength.

Just as a matter of fact, there is very little known about the ancient Druids. Much of what is now associated with Druids and the religions of ancient Celts is simply guesswork. There is no evidence that "Muck Olla" was a Druid god. In fact, Muck originated in folks stories from Yorkshire, England. To avoid bonfires, apple bobbing, pumpkin carving, or wearing costumes simply because "evil" Celts supposedly used them in religious ceremonies is giving too much significance to *speculated* occurrences from hundreds of years ago. I don't like Halloween / Samhain -- because it has more meaning to me than it does to most here. But it doesn't have the capacity to infiltrate a Christian's armor of God. Folks should be more concerned with the popular medieval festivals that are so common nowadays.

My personal belief follows the traditional teaching that has Christ's death on the day we now call Friday and his resurrection on the day that we call Sunday. In addition, I disagree with Rachel (8thd Day Priest) on a number of issues. However, without getting into that, Rachel is illustrating a number of issues related to the actual date for the death of Christ: 1) In the time of Christ, Passover was celebrated under two (2) different calendars. 2) The Biblical word "Sabbath" can refer to the 7-day weekly Sabbath and it can refer to a special feast day such as Passover. These and other issues make it impossible to determine with certainty the exact year of Christ's death. This affects other calculations. Again, I believe in the traditional Friday/Sunday belief. I think that this has the best support.

I am and for 25+ years have been a member of a very traditional large (1500+) Adventist Church. The music and worship format some might even describe as "high church", or a significant amount of classical religious music or music in that style. The platform is dominated by an impressive pipe organ, a high quality concert grand piano and a full choir loft, all of which are used regularly and on special occasions an orchestra, string or brass ensemble. Congregational singing is traditional hymns. Special music is fairly traditional and is high quality and well performed, often by professional musicians. The program format is fairly traditional. The regular seating seats roughly half the membership and each Sabbath is usually full. I also attend regularly another nontraditional Adventist Church that is a little over half the size (800). It doubled in size under the leadership of the now retired senior pastor that introduced the current worship format. It still leads the conference in baptisms. It has very contemporary Christian music with a lengthy praise service that precedes the sermon. It has the full modern music instrumentation/amplification equipment. They also have praise/worship dancers that choreograph their fluid movements, banners and streamers with the music. (Nothing remotely sexual about it.) The program format is informal. The have a consistent "come as you are, just come" philosophy. The atmosphere is vibrant and very friendly. I often refer to it as "happy church". The congregation and attendees are very diverse on all demographic categories. A unique part of this church is like most Adventist churches, about half of the membership attends week to week, but the actually attendance is always at least equal to the full membership number. That means that half who attend are not even members. Yes, there are the typical Adventists "tourists" checking out this unique Adventist church, but a significant percentage of the regular attendees are not Adventists. I love both churches. I am blessed by each. The music of the contemporary church touches my soul more deeply and more frequently than the traditional hymns and classical religious music of the first church where I am a member. I like both styles of music. On a good week when I attend both services I am most happy. I have a well rounded and richly blessed Sabbath worship experience.