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Le Roy Froom

All of the above suggestions have merit. I cannot suggest one person as influential. Rather, I am inclined to think of a list of people. From that perspective, I would add to the list Alden Thompson.

1) my daughter finally fisnished her final year of High school here in australia- called Year 12, the exam in called the HSC ( higher school certificate). she is now waiting to see if she got into Uni. 2) i got my learners for motorcycles! We managed to buy a 250cc sccoter that supports my back well enough- for use going to and fromt he shops. has a glove box and LOTS of storage under the seats. 3) i sat my First exam in my Theology degree- New Testament epistles. so a big time. The phot below is my daughter with her friedn on the day of the formal.

someone ought to come up with an "Adventist Monopoly" game... "Go to Jail" could be "Go before the Church Board"... "Park Place and Boardwalk" could be the GC and NAD "Luxury Tax" could be "Tithe and Offerings" There could be Mission Trips and building churches and hospitals.. "Chance" could be "Church Potlucks"... "Community Chest" could be related to SDA education.. and more.....

And what group will be persecuting Sabbath keeping Christians and Jews??

I cannot begin to imagine the magnitude of the day-to-day criticism Dr Carson faces as an Adventist and now a candidate for presidency.

Stan, I'll have to report you to your boss, quoting from such a translation!

Pastor Veered From Rock Music's Road to Perdition to Stairway to Heaven http://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story3473-pastor-veered-from-rock-musics-road-to-perdition-to-stairway-to-heaven

Will we be able to play it on Sabbath?

Are those pictures of Ben the before and after caffeine?

150 Praise the LORD! Praise God in his Temple! Praise his strength in heaven! 2 Praise him for the mighty things he has done. Praise his supreme greatness. 3 Praise him with trumpets. Praise him with harps and lyres. 4 Praise him with drums and dancing. Praise him with harps and flutes. 5 Praise him with cymbals. Praise him with loud cymbals. 6 Praise the LORD, all living creatures! Praise the LORD! American Bible Society. (1992). The Holy Bible: The Good news Translation (2nd ed., Ps 150:1–6). New York: American Bible Society.

Thank you for this reference. The more I read him, the more I understand why his criticism of the "Gap-theory" is invalid. It boils down to preconceptions the writer has about God, which I feel are wrong. " Is the Gap Theory Scientific? The reason why geologists will not accept the gap theory is that it contradicts their assumption that the past is continuous with the present. There is no room in their naturalistic approach to science for a global cataclysm that would destroy all life and then require a new creation of plants, animals, and people such as the gap theory proposes. Any cataclysm that would leave the earth "without form and void" (or "a shapeless chaotic mass" as The Living Bible expresses it), with "darkness on the face of the deep" everywhere, would require a worldwide nuclear or volcanic explosion that would effectively disintegrate the whole crust of the earth. All pre-cataclysm mountains would be blown into the sea and billions of tons of rocks and dust blown into the atmosphere, leaving the earth covered with "the deep" everywhere and "darkness" covering the deep everywhere. Such a cataclysm would disintegrate any previously deposited sedimentary deposits with their fossils and thus obliterate all evidence of any previous "geological ages." Thus the gap theory, which is supposed to accommodate the geological ages, requires a cataclysm which would destroy all evidence for the geological ages." This is such bad science. It depends on the cataclysm. A volcano would destroy the local area as would a meteorite striking earth. But everywhere, and at all time, something of the past is preserved. The fossil evidence is everywhere. Where most geologists and palaeontologists go wrong is to not believe in God, hence not believe that He could replenish earth multiple times after each mass extinction. Instead they HAVE TO invoke evolution to account for new mammals say after the dinosaurs. We believers are at an advantage there in that we KNOW all things were created by God, past and present Is it Theologically Sound? The gap theory is also unsound theologically. The God of Creation is an omnipotent and omniscient God, and is also a God of grace, mercy, and love. The very concept of the geological ages, on the other hand, implies a wasteful and cruel "god," and therefore probably no god at all. The supposed geologic ages are identified in terms of the fossils found in the earth's sedimentary rocks, and there are multiplied billions of them there. But fossils speak of death—even violent death. The preservation of dead animals requires rapid burial if they are to last very long. There are many regions, for example, where there are millions of fossil fish preserved in the rocks. There are dinosaur fossil beds on every continent, as well as great beds of fossil marine invertebrates practically everywhere. These may indeed speak of cataclysmic death and burial, but not a cataclysm operating slowly over billions of years, as the geological ages imply. If the gap theory were valid, it would mean that God had instituted an ages-long system of suffering and death over the world, before there were ever any men and women to place in dominion over that world, and then suddenly destroy it in a violent cataclysm. Why would an omnipotent, merciful God do such a wasteful and cruel thing as that? Do you see here how this dying jars with his theology, not with any facts. But why does he not open his eyes and watch National Geographic channel and see how dog-eat-dog say the sea is. Nothing dies of old age in the sea (except a few apex predators). Everything small gets eaten by everything bigger all the way up the food chain AND GOD MADE IT SO. And what we see happening in nature today is what we see happened in the fossil record at all times in the past. Thus our hippie cutesie preconceptions about "why oh why would God allow Bambie to be eaten by Simba?" are just that - our PETA-compliant false ways of looking at God and theology. A fish lives happily, and if it is unlucky that day, it gets eaten and endures a moment of limited suffering (how much understanding do they have, how much pain do they feel, who says God is against pain and suffering?). 5 seconds suffering for a lifetime of enjoying swimming around the beautiful coral reef. I will take that, please God. And its not as if fish have any future eternal life. The fish, if it could, would worship God and thank Him from the deepest recesses of its gills, for every beautiful day on earth that God had given it, rather than focusing on the 5 seconds of suffering that our tree-hugging theologian will point to.

I would say they are exactly right. The Bible predicts it, sister White predicts it but not many in the church will admit it is happening now. I would also say that Christ is ultimately in charge and all the terrible things happening in the church at present will be shaken out eventually. I wondered about this for some time and prayed a lot about it because I want the best for my church and I see frankly disgusting things starting to take place. I realized that all one can do is to make sure our own life is surrendered 110% to Christ and we are walking in His righteousness being a good example and then try to share with our fellow church members and help them understand the times we are living in. I preached in our church a couple weeks ago a pretty hard sermon. Some were angry but others were relieved and thanked me because they had felt like they were all alone. All we can do is plainly speak the Truth in love and let the Word cut and leave the results with God. (Prov 27:6) Sister White states the reason pastors are so ineffective is because they are afraid of hurting peoples feelings so they cover up the truth. Sometimes it is discouraging but don't focus on the negative focus on Jesus. The key is we must see the big picture. We are in a spiritual war. Don't take it personally when you see someone from the conference or a local pastor working in a manner that seems they are decieving people we are told about wolves entering in and killing the sheep. We are told over and over these deceptions will happen. Just realize that this is just part of the battle and take it to Christ and ask Him for the strategy to beat whatever attack satan is making. God loves each and every person and wants all to be saved and we should work...really work to try and reach those in our churches who are not studying or are being deceived. And not everyone in the conference or pastoral positions are bad, there are still men of God trying to do the good work for the Lord. They need our prayers because they are fighting a very hard battle.

Why not? Good idea. Who will finance the development. Give me a name and I will suggest additional projects.

If "THE MAJORITY" was correct, I would have never become an Adventist.

Serious, it seems like brains quit working when it switches over to political topics.

Can animals sin? The wages of sin is death. If animals do not sin, does this scripture apply to them? If animals do sin, does this scripture apply to them? Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Is it possible that Paul was speaking only of human sin and death? Is it possible that whole ecosystems lived and died before man, and that Paul was only speaking of SIN and DEATH concerning MANKIND? If this is so, is it possible that Paul is utterly silent about previous geological ages since salvation had nothing to do with them? Lastly, where does one draw the line at death? Did Adam and Eve never step on one ant or bug before the fall and kill it? Did no bug die of natural old-age before the fall? Are we insisting that Rom 5:12 says that NOTHING died before Adam and Eve sinned, whereas Paul is addressing only sin and death as applied to mankind?

Previous catastrophes would probably have nothing to do with sin, i.e., transgression of God's Laws, if there were no humans, or human-like beings. These extinction events, if they occurred, were likely the results of natural catastrophes such as bombardment by asteroids. Perhaps that will occur again and result in the extinction of all life on Earth. Perhaps the fossil record is the result of one cataclysmic event, perhaps more than one. We may or may not have the full story on life before the Flood. With long lives, powerful minds, and photographic memories, the antediluvians most probably created weapons of mass destruction, space travel, if not star travel, and tampered with DNA. We shouldn't be shocked if artifacts and evidence of life are found on other worlds or moons. If Earth was colonized with humans around 6,000 years ago, that might explain the sudden rise of advanced civilizations soon afterwards. I suspect that Adam and Eve weren't the only race of intelligent beings living on the Earth in those days, maybe not even the first. The Scriptures only tell their story, not the stories of the others from around the world who were rescued during the flood. If the antediluvians were capable of off-world spaceflight, it is not inconceivable that some of them returned to a far different world than the one they left. For them, building massive pyramids would have been child's play. Perhaps their star ships resembled pyramids... I believe that there is more science than meets the eye in Scripture, but it was turned into "miracles" by those who didn't understand the technology.

See, McDonald's is good for you!

At least anyone weighing 600 lbs or so will be safe from kidnapping, unless they're stuck in an RV and can't get out.

A delightful ideology! It causes one to feel lighter just reading it.

LOL, after eating a huge Thanksgiving meal, my mind automatically went in that direction when I read the title. Too funny!

* nods * makes perfect sense to me

chuckling away....

as an amercian when i watched english parliment on tv, i was in awe of the performance, and shaken that this was government. When i look at the bantering the american house of congress, i am generally appalled at the bickering and bantering. it was when i was 18 that the disillusionment began... in the highest authorities of the land, i could not see they were socially responsible, or intelligent.... lol

I appreciate Robert Folkenberg for making us a Mission Driven Church. He started Global Mission and other initiatives to grow the Church. I understand his health is bad, and that he is a thin man, not by choice. He made a difference, and I value him and his friendship a lot.

aside from the President of Adventistan, H.M.S. Richards comes to mind...

Canada does represent a goodly variety of wildlife to delight our imagination to how beautiful it can be living there away from the big cities.

Looking through telescope really doesn't tell you how far away any of the stars/galaxies you see really are or how long it has taken the light to drive here. That of course requires a bit more than simply a telescope. To say it is a time machine, not really. If I tell you that we will be working from sun up to sun down starting tomorrow, (or from evening to morning, if you prefer) and I will pay you a days wages, how long will you expect to work? What if we are in Oslo in July? Or how about if it was Chicago in December? Or any day in Pontianak, Indonesia? And another thing to consider. If you allow for the possibility that there is a span of time between verse 1 and verse 2, what prevents making the same allowance between any other step of creation. The text really does not literally say any of the days that Gd created are actually consecutive days. (I am not advocating that they are or are not. Just making a point about the notion of literal reading of the text.) We are in fact making assumptions about what things mean to a significant degree based on what we experience now. Unless one is fluent in ancient Hebrew, it really is not possible for us to "take the Bible literally". We can zealously adhere to a particular translation on a literal basis, but one has to understand that none of the common English translations are in fact literal translations. (I would say it may even be impossible to have an exactly literal translation.) To say that you believe that the text means an exact 24 hour period the same as we experience it now when it actually reads "the evening and the morning were the first day", but that is not quite the same as taking it literally. Literally the English translation is sort of nonsensical saying that an evening and morning are a day, as in a whole 24 hour day. The 24 hours of a day encompass more than just an evening and a morning. Sort of like if I say I am calling it a day after my workday is done. It really doesn't mean 24 literal hours.

i would tell them that he was the church, and if he has not apostatized the church has not apostatized. The church is the body of Christ, that Christ himself cares for. If there is apostasy there, Jesus will deal with it. Just as Jesus dealt with Judas we are to be kindly to those in Spiritual trouble.

This repetitive dialogue is alive and well.... Whatever side you are on the lines of reasoning and argument are drawn, and easily scripted. I believe it would be a healthy decisive move to eliminate ordination across the entire denomination.... and remove this whole basis for argument. Workers in the church labor and do everything they do by the power of the Holy Spirit, in every position... not by any power or authority of maleness. Human ordination to the role of pastor was never needed. Men and women of old are moved by the Spirit to speak and labor for Christ yesterday, today and tomorrow. Samuel was a great Pastor of his time as was Deborah. Communicating the will of God is only done by the power of the Holy Spirit, never by human authority or by virtue of genderized authority. The marriage remains the place for the specific male female genderized roles. Israel greatly sinned by demanding a king, and adopting human male headship in their nation.