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Showing content with the highest reputation on 12/29/2015 in all areas

  1. Bravus

    Are you a sophisticated thinker?

    Einstein said "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler". Simple is good, simplistic is bad. Sophisticated is good, pretentious is bad. Simple and sophisticated is best.
    4 points
  2. teresaq

    SUFFERING

    Now that was one....of a keeper! Like I said elsewhere, you are on a roll!
    3 points
  3. Nan

    Are Mental Health issues a form of Possession????

    Obviously as a practising physician I come with a rather different attitude from at least one other posting here. My basic attitude is that God gave us brains ..so we need to consider and evaluate our best individual paths. I happen to believe one way that knowledge has been increased in these 'last days' is in health and medicine in general. Healthy lifestyle is important, but that will not save someone bleeding heavily after major trauma. I can think of various scenarios in my own profession of OBGYN that require more than just comments about how one should be living. Having said that, I have found a basic lack of knowledge of healthy living out there and spend quite a lot of my consulting time with some patients giving advice which I did not learn in medical school, but was rather part of the way my parents taught me to live. I believe there is a place for medication and for medical procedures, but try to be discerning in the way I apply those beliefs. And in the context of mental health, I would have the same approach. .
    3 points
  4. Outta Here

    Relationships?

    Why couldn't you go to church on Saturdays and Sundays? Togetherness means being together, not apart.
    2 points
  5. Gregory Matthews

    Relationships?

    9,000 miles apart: That suggests to me that there may be cultural differences in your backgrounds. Yes, there may not be and yes, those can be overcome. However, it does suggest a potential major difference that may need to be worked Another issue: Where would you live? Who would move to be with the other? You tell us that he is in law school. O.K. So he graduates and becomes an attorney. He can practice law in his own country but probably not in the United States. That just about means that you would need to move to his country. So, that places you 9,000 miles away from your family, friends and everyone that you know.
    2 points
  6. Gregory Matthews

    Relationships?

    Never marry someone on that assumption that they will either change, or that you can change them. That is not a good basis for a marriage.
    2 points
  7. Bravus

    Users and Guests

    I hope it goes without saying that the Guests are extremely welcome.
    2 points
  8. JoeMo

    SUFFERING

    Who made the process by which we make alcoholic beverages? Who made marijuana? Who made opium poppies or coca plants? I personally don't believe that satan has creative powers. He may, however have the intelligence to manipulate genes for his evil intent. What God has created for good, satan - with the cooperation of man - has abused and turned into a curse. That , to me, is at least a partial reason for suffering.
    2 points
  9. 8thdaypriest

    SUFFERING

    From my observation, worldwide constant SUFFERING is perhaps the greatest reason why believers become un-believers. I have been thoughtfully considering this subject for some time now. I think I was pushed towards this because I myself suffer chronic pain, in the form of very frequent migraines. I have seen miracles - several of them - during my life so far, and I couldn't figure out why the LORD wouldn't heal me. I'm left with the nagging question --- Did it really HAVE to be THIS BAD? I'm reading through Richard Rice's book, "Suffering and the Search for Meaning". He really does a good job, summarizing the different views. My husband was born in Germany. The story of his parents highlights the problem of suffering. His parents were engaged when his father was drafted into the German navy at 18 years old. It was the height of WWII. One month out on a German destroyer, and it was captured by a Russian sub. He spent 4 years in a Russian prison camp, often tortured, and came back home weighing 80 pounds, and bald at 22. He had also decided that there IS NO GOD, because, if there IS, then HE is a monster for allowing this!!! He was abusive as a husband, and as a father to his three boys. He ultimately committed suicide at 72. Of course he was suffering from untreated PTSD. There was no treatment back then. My mother-in-law didn't fair any better. Her biological father was killed in a Brown Shirt riot, and her mother abandoned her to the state. She was often abused in foster care. At 16, she was working at a troupe hospital rear the railway. While walking back to the state owned farm where she lived, she was raped and knifed and left for dead at 16. But she never gave up her belief in God. She remained a believer, and attended church well into her 70's. I never got to visit with her enough to know whether she was just "buying fire insurance" or really believed in the goodness of God. I believe that God feels our pain. "In all their affliction, He was afflicted." Therefore my response is to believe that God would NOT have ALLOWED this horrible mess, if it was not absolutely necessary. It's just difficult for me, when my head is pounding, to think, "THIS is necessary."
    1 point
  10. Wingnut

    Compared to other denominations, SDA know their Bible

    I really like everything you say here Rachel. On my other forum, at this present moment I am having a frank and friendly exchange of ideas with a Buddhist, a Taoist, a Jew and an atheist within the last 15 minutes. And nobody feels threatened because I am pointing out how much we have in common. I know you are strong in your faith and could likewise converse with all of the above and not be moved in the least away from Christ or your beliefs since you have made a deep and personal study of the Bible to get where you are today. I know you can explain your beliefs at the drop of a hat - you don't have to look up what the handbook says. And a forum like this is the best place to get material for your web-page. And I like having my beliefs tested since, if they are wrong, they have to go
    1 point
  11. 8thdaypriest

    Compared to other denominations, SDA know their Bible

    Yes. Originally, I came to Club Adventist to TEST my doctrinal positions. It's a very good place to do that. Folks challenge the positions of other posters. I think it strengthens my positions, or it makes me go back to look at them seriously, and maybe adjust them. The good answers I "found" for the challenges of others, ended up in studies published on my website. So thanks to all those who have challenged me. Then I made a couple of friends. I'm glad for them. Concerning Mrs White: I had to get away from reading her, some years actually, before I could read Scripture without always remembering her interpretations- before I could study Scripture for itself. I used to really know those "red books". I'm not against EGW. I just don't believe she should be read as the infallible interpreter of Scripture. I think she was WRONG about some things. I have found that Adventists read Scripture with little EGW glasses. After years and years of the Sabbath School Quarterly - facing pages, one with EGW, the other with Scripture, it's hard NOT to think of her interpretation, whenever you read Scripture. The Hebrew Roots people, and the Church of God 7th Day people, also "know their Bible" more than average "church people". I have found that most folks who are part of a congregation, (especially those with kids or family in the same church, and ESPECIALLY those with responsible "positions" in those churches), are VERY resistant to anything "new" that might compromise their social support group - their "church family". They sense immediately what teaching is accepted, and what will be DANGEROUS. As one who was removed from teaching Sabbath School, and shunned out of the church for questioning the Trinity doctrine, I speak from experience. This is true of folks from every church - not just SDAs. And in a small town, where folks know everyone - new doctrines are especially dangerous. This is NOT about a "closed mind". This is about real FEAR of loosing ones social support group, and ones standing in the community. Every once in a while, I meet someone who has a REAL relationship with the LORD. These are the people who are most open to learning something new. Their hunger to know the LORD, outweighs their fear.
    1 point
  12. 8thdaypriest

    SUFFERING

    I believe THE FLOOD changed almost EVERYTHING. Humans aged more quickly. Everything from bacteria to dinosaurs adapted to the changed conditions. There was a great sea covering 3/4th of the planet, when there was not one before. Weather patterns changed. Droughts, famines, etc. etc. etc. The FLOOD brought tremendous suffering to what was left of the creation. "Man that is born of woman is of few day and full of trouble." (Solomon) The question is: WHY did the LORD allow the flood? WE only have a few clues. Personally, I believe that the LORD came within a hairs breadth of loosing humanity. The only way to save ANY humans, and to win the "war" with Satan, was to allow the destruction of all but 8 humans, and almost wreck the earth, and to shorten lifespans. The fact that God ALLOWED the flood, means that He is responsible for the suffering that followed - to a point. He allowed the FLOOD because almost all of the people alive on earth - pre-flood - told God to "depart from us" . God complied with their request, even though He KNEW what would happen. I wonder what sins the pre-flood people were committing. The LORD did now allow the destruction of Judah until they were sacrificing their own children to Baal. Makes me think the antediluvians were abusing their children, and probably animals too. I think of it like a mother who supports her abusive drug addicted daughter. She pays the house payment, and buys the food, etc. etc. etc. Only to have her daughter steal from her purse, and use Mom's credit card for her boyfriend. Finally she kicks her daughter out, who then complains that she is suffering, living on the street, half starved. She then gets pregnant, and expects her mother to support her and the baby. The mother gets legal custody of the baby, whereupon the daughter gets pregnant again. You see where this is going......... Just like that mother, the LORD has to practice "tough love" sometimes, allowing us AND our kids, to suffer the consequences. I boils down to evidence FOR God's love. We must find enough evidence FOR His love, to sustain us until we can be delivered out of this painful age. We are "strangers in the earth". We are wandering through a wilderness - a "world of woe" (as the song says) waiting to cross Jordan. I have kept a journal each year, since 1980 - the year I "met" Jesus. Over those years I experienced, or witnessed some 24 miracles. Those miracles convinced me that my God does love us, and does care about our personal circumstances. Those miracles have kept me going, through the painful times. Those miracles convinced my husband that God is REAL, and that He loves us. Those miracles were not something I read in a book. They were real, and personal. I think what we NEED today - is more miracles.
    1 point
  13. Tom Wetmore

    Compared to other denominations, SDA know their Bible

    But do you honestly think they were seeing the Bible as what (who) they were arguing against? How about trying a different way to win? Try a more winsome way to win some for Christ. Try winning souls to the kingdom instead of winning arguments about the kingdom?
    1 point
  14. Gregory Matthews

    Relationships?

    Cultural differences: O.K. May not be a major difference. Living in the U.S: O.K. May not be a major difference. Changing him: I am still concerned about this as well as the religious differences that potentially exist. If you would like for him to attend church with you on Saturday, you should be willing to attend with him on Sunday, if he does attend church.
    1 point
  15. Kevin H

    SUFFERING

    Once again I cannot understress the importance of the 3 chapters: Why was sin permitted, the origin of evil and It is finished. How I wish the White Estate would release a book with just these 3 chapters (and maybe the one on Gethsemane). God fully understands evil. We don't. God could have used Lucifer's questions to give him a deeper mental understanding of evil, and he could have become professor of evil at New Jerusalem Union College. However the mystery of iniquity is that Lucifer did not look for answers to his questions. He stopped at congratulating himself to be so wise as to come up with these clever questions. God is the only source of life. If we separate from him then it is like a light coming from a light bulb when the cord is unplugged. But Lucifer made it look like it was God who had to impose a punishment against sin. He did not realize that it was a natural result. Thus as sin entered the universe God worked long and slow with it so that there would be a clear understanding. First this world was used for the angels and beings on other worlds to do experiments with as they were deciding which side of the great controversy to join. We think that the angels and unfallen worlds had it easier than us. No, no, no... And they have been dealing with it for possibly billions of years (which is one reason why the earth looks so old). They had to make decisions based on faith. Once all of them had decided which side to be on based on faith, then they got to see the first bit of proof when this world was all chaotic and dark and God's spirit hovered over the chaos and said "Let there be light" and gave them that special week that showed that God was indeed creator. But even though they choose sides, they still did not close their probation until the cross. 8thdaypriest told some powerful stories of family members. God understands our pain and the horrors. On the one hand could you imagine how much worst the holocaust would have been if it either started or at least continued one year longer than it did with the atomic age? Hitler was stopped right on the verge of the atomic age. And how many nations were afraid to end up doing what Hitler did? If we did not have him human nature could well have lead to a holocaust with microwaves and radiation and all sorts of nasty's that we were spared do to the evil that was allowed to be done just prior to entering the atomic age. As for the victims; God knows all the hurt and pain. Just because they claim to be atheists and try in different ways to numb their pain does not mean that they are truly rejecting God. It may be a way of reaching out in pain, and if they could have seen Jesus on earth would have reached out to him for healing. At the end God treats us all the same. Many people like the ones you described could just end up crying on his shoulder and have him finally wipe the tears out of their eyes. Our job is to listen and to reach out and care. We are going through a horrible time so that sin will not rise up again.
    1 point
  16. Nan

    Relationships?

    I think anyone with a strong commitment to Sabbath keeping is going to find life with a non Sabbathkeeper difficult. The other partner may have a wonderful Christian experience and be a wonderful, compatible, person....but there will always be something important not being shared. Of course each individual has the choice about where to leave their heart. And my husband and I met via online dating as well....but that was more an introduction, we were able to meet in person just a few weeks later.
    1 point
  17. LifeHiscost

    Relationships?

    It wasn't until coming to the conclusion that only God could make the decision that would last happily through eternity. How did that work? We courted 6 weeks, starting with following His advice. So far 36 years and still happy together, despite some undesirable health issues. P.S. We don't advocate short courtships but if you spend a lot of time with Jesus, He might even suggest the same for some. OTIOH; take this from the apostle Paul, …8But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. 10But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband….1 Corinthians 7 14Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?…2 Corinthians 6 God is Love!~Jesus saves!
    1 point
  18. Tom Wetmore

    Are Mental Health issues a form of Possession????

    It is a bit of a cruel trap to suggest that lack of faith or belief prevents healing. I have been there, blaming myself that my weak faith blocked God from healing someone very dear to me. They died despite my earnest prayers and the prayers of numerous others, far more saintly than me. How much faith and belief does it take? Jesus said faith the size of a mustard seed could move mountains. How about healing? How much faith must one muster to at least get to the size of a mustard seed.
    1 point
  19. LifeHiscost

    What Kind of SDA are We

    I've learned to find much of what is sought in these two foundational principles. 5.....be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.....Hebrews 13 165....Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.....Psalms 119 God is Love!~Jesus saves!
    1 point
  20. Bravus

    Users and Guests

    Interesting to click on the 'Online Users' link. As of right now there are 19 people online, of whom 10 are (identified) Users and 9 are Guests. We are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses.
    1 point
  21. CoAspen

    Are you a sophisticated thinker?

    Ah, Gail.....maybe you want to rephrase...
    1 point
  22. Gail

    Are you a sophisticated thinker?

    I hit #1 but I can swing both ways.
    1 point
  23. joeb

    Factoring Polynomials

    Interesting. I like what he's doing. I absolutely hated algebra in high school and dropped out of Algebra 2 before I flunked out of it. Ten years later I went back to school and took an Industrial Arts degree. Part of that degree was a very thorough study of electricity from the science of it to electrical codes, reading schematics, and troubleshooting circuits. It was in that course that I finally "got" algebra. In high school I had hated it because I could see no earthly reason for it. No matter what teachers I asked not a one of them could/would tell me what it was really good for. Then in studying electricity I found out the "why" of algebra. Knowing the why made all the difference. It was so simple I wondered why I basically flunked it in high school. Then I realized why. In high school it was taught in a very abstract way and algebra was not made practical in any way, shape, or form. Twenty years later I went back to school again, and once again, electricity was part and parcel of the course study. When I signed up for the course I was told I wouldn't be able to do the math without having a background in calculus, but there were no openings in the calculus classes that quarter. So, I told the people signing me up for classes I figured I could do the math as it was related to electricity. They allowed me to take the electronics course without having the prerequisite and by the end of the quarter I had aced the course. The guy teaching electronics gave a point or two of extra credit every week and at the end I had more than 100% of the total points used to figure the grade. Trig I taught myself from a textbook written in the 1890's. Whoever wrote that textbook knew how to communicate in the way I learn. I read the first 8 or 10 pages of that book and said, Oh, this is nothing but ratios, and that is about all there is to trig. Oh, it's in a lot more complex system than simple ratios but as long as I think about trig in terms of ratios it's a piece of cake. I can visualize it easily.
    1 point
  24. Gail

    What Kind of SDA are We

    Thanks, Kevin, for the insight. I have mentioned it on the board before that there is more to Jesus than we can EVER understand. For me it is not a matter to be fought over but one where we sit at His feet in awe and praise God. I like the point about making more of ourselves and less of the world. AMEN! It is this point which brings me over and over to square one in my faith, simplistic as it seems. I don't view it as a bad thing; it is what keeps me in a state of wonder in contemplation of our Heavenly Father. I agree with the concept as where sin originates. It is a marvel how deeply-rooted sin is in our hearts, but it is, and God knows it way better than we know ourselves. I have always enjoyed the freedom of diversity to be found among our brethren. I draw a line where the differences make us angry and argumentative. God is love and He gives us freedom of choice. By beholding we should ideally reflect that.
    1 point
  25. Nan

    Relationships?

    Some wise words there Perks from Gail and Pam....it is hard not to want to make long term plans but you are being wise in considering the possible problems of a future with someone who does not share your belief system. Do you go out much with friends....not necessarily male ...in your home town? It would be a shame if skyping this guy, however nice, was your main social outlet. I tried a long distance relationship some years ago, before my husband and I met, and there is a lot you can only get to know about someone by meeting in the flesh. I am unsure from your post whether you have actually met in person. If you can take advice from someone rather older than you...enjoy the friendship but do not make long term commitments until you have known each other in real time and space for a while.
    1 point
  26. 8thdaypriest

    SUFFERING

    The prophecy is that - in the forever Kingdom - "the lion will eat straw like the ox" . "The child will put his hand into the cobra's hole." "The wolf will lie down with the lamb." So it seems that the behavior and even diet of animals, changes with their living conditions. So there will still BE lions, and wolves, and cobras - they just will not harm either other animals, or people. Dr Baugh has demonstrated with the hyperbarric biosphere, that rattle snakes venom becomes non-poisonous after a few weeks in 2 times normal atmospheric pressure.
    1 point
  27. Gail

    Relationships?

    Hi, Perks I like your avatar While you have so much uncertainty there is nothing wrong with giving it some time. And there is nothing wrong with being really good friends. I hope that this gives you breathing space. I wish you the best!
    1 point
  28. rudywoofs (Pam)

    Relationships?

    How do you "date" when you are 9000 miles apart? Have you met and spent time with each other in person?
    1 point
  29. phkrause

    SUFFERING

    Great posts Teresaq and 8thdaypriest
    1 point
  30. Aliensanctuary

    Factoring Polynomials

    I'm a little rusty, but this article reminds me a lot of matrices and determinates from calculus and differential equations.
    1 point
  31. Gregory Matthews

    Are Mental Health issues a form of Possession????

    How did I find your name: We all leave a trail in the Internet. I just followed the trail. As I respect privacy, I did not identify that it was your name. If I had wanted, I possibly could have discovered your home address and more. But, I was not interested.
    1 point
  32. Gail

    SUFFERING

    Rachel, I am sorry that you have debilitating headaches. I also suffer from chronic migraines, although in the last few weeks I have had some respite. I know what it means to camp out by the toilet and not move because even the slightest head movement brings on another wave of pain. I have taken many sick days from work, even to the point of also using my vacation because I had yet another migraine. To me it seems (and I think that JoeMo and Kevin have touched on this) that there is a bit of mystery to the "why" to suffering. So far, as I am just still learning, I am impressed that my part is to learn to trust God. I have a feeling that the principle of freedom of choice, not ours but others' and also Satan's, leads us to sorrow quite often. And no doubt my freedom of choice allows me to wound others. I am thankful, though, that God doesn't waste our suffering but skilfully endows us with patience and endurance through it. We do gain tools to help others through understanding and empathy and sometimes with wisdom from having been there. I just do not have the answer. I know suffering causes people to surrender faith in God. Why some people grow in grace during calamity while others shake their fists at God probably is due to many factors. If we luck on to the correct, healing encouragement that connects to where a person is at the moment I praise God for it. I am not sure whether doing/saying the wrong thing is worse than saying nothing. All I know is that in this world everyone gets a turn.
    1 point
  33. LifeHiscost

    SUFFERING

    Amidst suffering there is more room to appreciate this. I may have to put it on more than one page. John Woodrow Cox - The Washington Post - Friday, December 25, 2015 Another self sacrificing, suffering child of God who puts my own complaining to shame. God is Love!~Jesus saves!
    1 point
  34. Pastor Robert S. Folkenberg, an innovative church worker and mission advocate who served as president of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, passed to his rest this week at the age of 74, according to the Folkenberg family. [url={url}]View the full article[/url]
    1 point
  35. Aliensanctuary

    SUFFERING

    People do err when blaming God for misfortune, rather than Satan. Satan, when tempting Adam and Eve, was the First Cause of Evil on this planet. While Evil evolved and spread like wildfire, Godliness all but disappeared, since disobedience is so much easier than obedience. As Christ indicated, God, our Master and Owner, is away on a long journey, leaving others to tend his vineyard. Despite the prevalence of evil, we can choose to be the Master's faithful servants and journey on the less-traveled road, or, we can choose to be wicked servants and take the superhighway to hell. If we blame God for the evils of this world, then we are servants of Satan, the accuser. We, or others, may suffer, even as professed followers of Christ, but we shouldn't expect magical healing or protection in this life. In this life we are being tested, just as Christ was tested in the wilderness. Even though evil surrounded him and affected his life, he blamed no one but Satan. No matter what our circumstances are, in health or in sickness, rich or poor, with loved ones or alone, free or in prison, we can still serve the LORD, knowing that there is a better life ahead for those who follow his Son.
    1 point
  36. BigMark

    SUFFERING

    We like to blame many (not all) sufferings on sin, our parents, genetics, etc. But the reality is: we cause most of our own problems by the way we eat, think, act, handle stress and hydrate. Almost no one wants to accept responsibility for their disease, but in fact most of the times it's our own fault. Now some of the external influences mentioned by 8thdaypriest are pretty horrific, but with God's grace we can overcome. I believe that if we give ourselves totally to Jesus, he can give us the strength to overcome physically as well as mentally.
    1 point
  37. Geoarrge

    SUFFERING

    Theologically it's easy enough to explain. The world that we currently have is the result of Satan's governance, not God's, and as nice as it would be personally to be relieved of suffering, it would also risk concealing the fact of how terribly mismanaged everything is right now, and the need to put an end to it. That's not necessarily a satisfactory explanation on the personal level, though. No quantity of words written in books can substitute for action. If someone feels like God is refusing to help with something that is genuinely needed, the loss of hope is inevitable.
    1 point
  38. Ted Oplinger

    A new perspective on Genesis 1

    Hmm...Posts like these used to appear often over at the Origins forum. First, Most people who want to take the earth into long ages, do so to bow to the dictates of man's science. It is man who has appointed an order of origins contrary to God's Word. With the first verse, God lays His integrity on the line. He says He created the earth and the heavens. One can either take His Word for it, or not. If His Word is trustworthy, then one must accept it as it is given, not how one wants to fit it into man's format. Man's science has historically declared the order of origins to be: 1. Big Bang - explosion from a singularity (though this is also being debated again) 2. Formation of galaxies by accretion of massive nebulae 3. Formation of stars and star clusters within those galaxies by accretion of mass within nebulae (Insert sun here) 4. Formation of planets by accretion of mass via dust/material disc orbiting stars (insert the earth and other planets in our own solar system here) 5. Formation of the moon 6. On earth - formation of planetary land (by material accretion) 7. On earth - formations of atmosphere (by accretion and volcanic processes) 8. On earth - formation of seas on top of land mass (by condensation above and geologic process below) 9. On earth - Cambrian explosion - plants and creeping things (invertebrate sea life) appear simultaneously in the marine geologic record. 10. On earth - appearance of fish 11. On earth - appearance of land plants - simpler forms first 12. On earth - appearance of amphibians and creeping things (insects); plant life moves to ferns, cycads, and fern trees 11. On earth - appearance of reptiles, birds and mammals, then man - in that order. Plants evolve to include flowering plants, conifers, then deciduous trees, in that order. Placing this list side by side with the Creation account, one immediately notices there are several discrepancies between orders. Hence, either man's listing, or the Word of God, must be true. Both cannot be true at the same time, for God placed creation in a specific order in His Word: 1. The earth was formless, with nothing on it (vs. 2) 2. It was composed of water (vs 2); owing to the language, it could be interpreted as water completely covering the rocky planet. 3. Light was created by the Word of God, with no visible source (vss. 3-5); this marked the events of the first day. There was no atmosphere created at this point in time, so a "thick atmosphere" could not have been parted to reveal a light source. Indeed, that light source was not even created yet. This is already at variance with numbers 1-8 on man's listing 4. Waters were separated by God's Word, between the water composing the earth, and the waters composing the heavens, By that same word, an atmosphere was created between the waters. Here, we have waters above (where the sun, moon, and stars are destined to be), waters below (the earth, composed of water). Light is still present, with no visible source. This completes the activity of God's Word on the second day. 5. Day 3 of Creation begins with God sending forth His Word to command the waters to be gathered together into one place, and for the dry land to appear (Hebrew = "cause to be seen"). God further commands the plants into existence - everything from simple single cell plants and phytoplankton, to fungi and lichens and moss, all the way to fruit trees and the majestic conifers. No animal life exists at this point, and neither does any visible source of light. Day 3 ends at this point. These are the foundational days of creation - setting the arenas to be populated in the next 3 days. 6. On the fourth day, God commands by His Word the heavens to be populated. It is at this point the sun, the moon, and the stars are created. The sun and stars are now visible sources of light. This differs significantly from man's listings, as man puts the stars in first, then our sun, then our earth and moon. It also differs significantly from Wingnut's #1, in that there the sun did not yet exist to shine once a "thick atmosphere was parted". Only AFTER the heavens were populated with these things, did he appoint them for signs and times. Here, God created the yearly and monthly cycles which everything living would follow. This is, perhaps, the major difference Wingnut has with the creation account as God says it, for I can grant the caveat that waters covered a rocky planet in the beginning. Here, one must either take God's Word to be true in having 3 days of light strong enough to distinguish day from night, without the sun being the source...or reject it as fancy. 7. On the fifth day, God populates the seas, fresh waters, and the air simultaneously. The seas are populated with sea life from the simple single-celled amoebas, paramecium and euglenae, to molluscs and invertebrate sea life, to vertebrate fish and mammal water life. It may well have included the marine dinosaur life seen in the fossil record. The air is populated with birds and fowl of every kind. There are no returning to the sea animal life forms, as the land is not yet populated. There is no transitioning from land life to avian life, as proposed by man. This completes the 5th day. 8. Finally, on Day 6, God creates all of the land life to populate dry land. There is no transitioning from sea to land alongside the plants (as man proposes). God creates the insects, the amphibians, the reptiles, and the mammals, in a separate, sequential time two periods past the creation of the plants, and separate from the birds. Then, God crowns Creation by creating man - by forming him out of the dust, not taking him from a monkey's DNA. Again, one is faced with having to take God at His Word that He did indeed create in this specific order, or reject God's testimony of His work. He is either telling the truth at every point, or He is a Supreme Deceiver who cannot be trusted in the light of man's interpretation of science data. The order between the Creation account and man's interpretation of the geologic, paleontological, and paleobotanical data is just too different, too disparate, to ever be looked at reasonably as a mere difference in timescales. As if that was not enough, God then creates the Sabbath on Day 7, and permanently embeds the weekly cycle into the plant, aquatic, avian, and land life He has created. The weekly cycle is something well documented in science, but there is absolutely no reason for its being. There are no prominent planetary or astronomic cycles lasting precisely 7 days. The only prominent thing with a weekly periodic cycle is...the 7th day Sabbath itself. I do take it literally. Every bit. I do not say I understand how He did it, but I do know every process He used obeyed the various Laws of Science He had authored in eternity past. More on why in another post. Blessings,
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