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As some of you know we have moved and we have been looking for a new home to purchase. The picture below is one that we would have liked to purchase. But, our offer was not accepted.

A major part of our reason for moving to California was to build relationships with relatives. One of those is a Nephew with whom I have only had a relationship in recent times. A few days ago we had a dinner to which we invited our family and close friends. At this dinner, he gave me a copy of a photo that he once took. I have posted it below. For other photos that he has taken, you may view them at: http://www.jeffreyjohnstonphoto.net/ I thought it was a very thoughtful gift. NOTE: This photograph has lost a bit in the reproduction.

Just also wodnering, can we be too har don ourselves trying to live up to God's expectations, or our PERCEIVED interpretation of God's expectations??? This has come to me in the last few days. I am going to stuff up, so stop trying to live the perfect life. Admit to ourselves that we cant live perfectly, and humbly approach our Saviour when we do stuff up He would still want us to live life to the fullest- and be happy!

How do I know? Lately I've been on non-SDA sites; they are not open to anything except their own preconceived views. It's very sad!

A big issue with both Seventh-day Adventists and non-Adventists are traditions, especially those who have grown from the view of Fundamentalism, and taking portions of the truth and using them against the rest of the truth, and building speculations on those portions of the truth that then replace the truth. Some of these include: that God did away with the whole law then replaced 9 of the 10 commandments. Wouldn't it have been easier for God to just clearly do away with the one and making that clear instead of throwing out all 10 and then replace 9. Also, there is the tradition that Mrs. White is not infallible, it's just that she never made a mistake. Or on the other hand seeing every place where Mrs. White disagrees with my views that she is wrong. (Mrs. White has the framework of the 3 aspects of God, the 3 deceptions of Satan, and how they are answered in the 3 angel's messages.) Also, she did not want to be seen as an exegetist, but making applications for our day. Exegeses is our job not hers. But our traditions see her as an inspired commentary on the Bible (a view developed in the 1920s). She wrote a lot about things like the reform dress, Testimony #11, and letters to people like Stephen Haskell and to Elder Washburn (and maybe Elder Wilkinson, but if not then Willie wrote very similar letters to Elder Wilkinson-- It is very hard to tell the difference between the letters to these and a few other gentlemen who held similar views) introduction to Great Controversy and in Selected Messages about what visions do and do not do for her. Among the liberals there is the tradition that Mrs. White kept her copying a secret... they have their quotes to prove it. However they over look the fact that those quotes were given to those who knew about her copying, who were helping her with her copying, who towards the end of her life were trying to find as many footnotes as they could, and their question was not whether or not she copied but did she get her messages from what she was reading and copying or was she getting them from God. In looking at the book QOD, it appears that Elders Froom, Read, Anderson, Barnhouse, Martin, and even Andresen held to the same view as to the nature of Jesus. Froom, Read and Anderson gave a partial answer wanting to avoid the questioning of the divinity of Jesus that many (not all) of our pioneers held. Elder Andresen pointed out that they gave only a partial answer and was upset about the part left out. Sadly the legacy has been among us to start a tradition of "If QOD said it then I don't believe it and that settles it for me." We take the missing part as the WHOLE truth instead of as Andresen saw it, the missing part, then we add to this tradition to give Jesus the sinful nature. (Jesus had his own unique nature, unlike Adam's, including that he did not have in himself the disposition to think we were for ourselves by making less of the outside world. This is what makes us sinners. Jesus is both our example and our substitute and while the conservatives tend to agree with this they tend to focus more on the example due to the over emphases on the substitute by the liberals.) One of my professors use to say "Today you cannot say the truth in the Adventist church without making both the liberals and conservatives mad at you. These are a few of the traditions that we need to work with and which hold us back in study and growth.

All it takes to live in a fine house like the above is to become a president or governor and it can be yours, for a few years, anyway. Unfortunately, residents of these fine houses must deal with liars, thieves, and other disreputable characters who tend to congregate nearby. Free rent, free travel, and other amazing taxpayer-paid perks may outweigh the disadvantages of the latter, though. Of course, most residents of this type of housing must lie, cheat, and steal their way into public office themselves, so the bad neighborhood shouldn't bother them at all.

Please understand, we have a like button for comments like that.

I have to be careful not to become dependent on another human being for my self-worth. When I was a child I was always afraid that one day I wouldn't have any friends. But that day never came. I am convinced that God works through people. I do need people - no doubt - but God puts the people in my life that I need. And God can use more than one person. Thus I need to not become dependent upon a single individual because God may remove that person and replace him or her with someone else.

Nose Joke Q: Why isn't your nose 12 inches long? A: Because it would be a foot

BTW - the "victory" is God's not mine. I am both humbled an honored that He would use a wretch like me to spread His word.

I have had good experiences on non-denominational websites an well as with a non-denominational Bible Study I hold at work during the lunch hour. In both places (as well as CA), I have found that people care more about what I think as I show more care for them. Relationship opens people's minds. Everyone knows I am a Sabbath-keeper and why I am. They respect that. Why? Because I don't condemn them for being Sunday keepers. My strategy is to plant a seed. When someone asks me why I worship on Saturday, I tell them "because I really like it! The people at church are awesome, the lessons are always biblical and educational; and Saturday worship appears to be what God originally had in mind when He gave us the Law." But I never say "I'm right and you're wrong". The harshest thing I say is "That's an interesting viewpoint"; or "I don't believe that way". As soon as a discussion becomes heated or the exchange becomes one of personal insults, I walk away. I'd rather win the war than win the battle. One "victory" was bringing a former JW to belief in Jesus and His grace.

Wingnut, If we humans can perform genetic modifications to significantly alter a species (or maybe even "manufacture" new ones), what makes you think satan can't? He is certainly more experienced and well-versed in the laws of nature and biology than we are.

The title of the topic makes assumptions that are not practical or reality. It is just a political statement. No Pres is responsible for the degree of success or failure of such an undertaking. It is surrounded by many different ideas/solutions which in the end are about political ideology. Each party/group wants to be able to take complete responsibility for success and none for any failures.

Yes. Originally, I came to Club Adventist to TEST my doctrinal positions. It's a very good place to do that. Folks challenge the positions of other posters. I think it strengthens my positions, or it makes me go back to look at them seriously, and maybe adjust them. The good answers I "found" for the challenges of others, ended up in studies published on my website. So thanks to all those who have challenged me. Then I made a couple of friends. I'm glad for them. Concerning Mrs White: I had to get away from reading her, some years actually, before I could read Scripture without always remembering her interpretations- before I could study Scripture for itself. I used to really know those "red books". I'm not against EGW. I just don't believe she should be read as the infallible interpreter of Scripture. I think she was WRONG about some things. I have found that Adventists read Scripture with little EGW glasses. After years and years of the Sabbath School Quarterly - facing pages, one with EGW, the other with Scripture, it's hard NOT to think of her interpretation, whenever you read Scripture. The Hebrew Roots people, and the Church of God 7th Day people, also "know their Bible" more than average "church people". I have found that most folks who are part of a congregation, (especially those with kids or family in the same church, and ESPECIALLY those with responsible "positions" in those churches), are VERY resistant to anything "new" that might compromise their social support group - their "church family". They sense immediately what teaching is accepted, and what will be DANGEROUS. As one who was removed from teaching Sabbath School, and shunned out of the church for questioning the Trinity doctrine, I speak from experience. This is true of folks from every church - not just SDAs. And in a small town, where folks know everyone - new doctrines are especially dangerous. This is NOT about a "closed mind". This is about real FEAR of loosing ones social support group, and ones standing in the community. Every once in a while, I meet someone who has a REAL relationship with the LORD. These are the people who are most open to learning something new. Their hunger to know the LORD, outweighs their fear.

Thanks Aubrey and Mr. Matthews! I will try to think and pray about it too

This year has taken a number of very dear people both in our private lives and in public life. One more has died this year, Elizabeth Laird "the Hug Lady" You know that her angel will be standing guard over her grave crying and waiting for the day when the angel can greet her with a hug! http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/local/texas-news/2015/12/24/hug-lady-who-embraced-military-and-faith-dead-at-83/77895448/

Spiritual Formation is taking over many churches and especially the emerging church movement, in which you will find the same ecumenical pattern all the way back from Vatican II, bring everyone no matter who, when, what and preach acceptance and love. Hide real truth and ignore repentance from sin and iniquity, and unveil easy theories and practices from contemplative Spirituality Mysticism. It claims to provide wonderful new ways for our people to draw close to God and seek higher spirituality; it has, as its foundation, the ancient mystical and pantheistic teachings of Hinduism and Buddhism, and paganism.The techniques used for silencing the mind in Spiritual Formation is identical to classic occultic meditation practices taught in Hinduism, Buddhism, wicca, paganism, etc. Here is Rick Warren on Spiritual Formation: "From time to time God has raised up a parachurch movement to reemphasize a neglected purpose of the church... The Discipleship. Spiritual Formation Movement. A reemphasis on developing believers to full maturity has been the focus ... authors such as ... Richard Foster and Dallas Willard have underscored the importance of building up Christians and establishing personal spiritual disciplines.... [this] movement has a valid message for the church...[it] has given the body a wake-up call. —Rick Warren, Purpose Driven Church, p. 126. And from Willow Creek: "The Practice offers Saturday morning meetings which provide a rhythm of worship, teaching on a particular spiritual discipline and time to experience or "practice" that discipline. This practice time allows participants to get a fuller understanding of how to incorporate the discipline in their daily lives." Spiritual Formation at Willow Creek They are taking over the churches by ignoring or setting aside the church manual and putting in what and who they want to run their methods, and throwing out anyone who gets in their way or tries to protest. They take out all the elders and teachers who try to stop their agenda of Spiritual Formation. Anyone who rejects the Spiritual Formation and Spiritual model they bring in is either accused of 'apostasy' and being 'against the church' or being a trouble maker, stirring up a rebellious spirit. Some are told not to speak of what is happening or are rebuked telling them by their 'dissent' they are causing 'others to fall' or 'stumble' and keeping away potential converts. They came into our church led by the Conference leader who basically made sure it was installed in our church. Our churches original founder was told not to bother to come back in a phone call with no regard to his place on the board or work in building up our church, the elders were forced out, the church board was filled with what can only be deemed as the unknowing or those lacking spiritual discernment, and those who fully knew what was happening and I can only say were purposely pushing it with no thought to the results of their destructive work. Well, they took over and when I went with my wife to the church board meeting to investigate they threw me and my wife out of the church board, luckily they didn't put their hands on my wife or it may have gotten dicey to say the least. They ignored the nomination of leaders voted in the prenomination church vote and the pastor put in his people against what plainly was the wishes of the church, and cancelled the final vote in front of the church when they saw it was going to go against them. When we went to challenge these actions it was too late as they had packed the church board with those the pastor had picked and we had no choice but to leave our brand new church we had worked so hard to raise money to build in the hands of what I can only say to be kind, were not spiritually minded at all. Now sadly our church building has become a empty house of the Lord, few show up for church service to say nothing of Sabbath School, many of those who supported the implementation of the Spiritual Formation by the pastor have left or began to see the problems it has brought. They had told them, as in the church in Miami I had previously attended but had moved before I saw the results, that Spiritual Formation was going to have waves of people join, increase the membership with those who were touched by its power, and bring a deeper spiritual relationship to everyone in the church. Nothing could be further from the truth, it deceived many who had come seeking truth to our doorstep, it destroyed the core believer group, it muzzled any who tried to speak out, they even told the greeters they could not say "Happy Sabbath" or any equivalents on Sabbath morning. I know because they told it to my wife among the other greeters. We sadly made the decision we had to leave our brand new church we had helped build and now meet with others at a rented church. Watch out for Spiritual Formation, in any of its forms, as it soon will come to your church brought by those you would think could be trusted and do its destructive work. I got this reply on the issue of Spiritual Formation from one of the forums..."Every single one of the young pastors here in Minneapolis are promoting Spiritual Formation in their own ways. The way I discovered this was when Pastor Jerry Holt (who laughed as he confessed that he never accepted ordination in the SDA church) as his first public outreach he sponsored a public reading of the books "A Purpose Driven Life" and "A Purpose Driven Church". And in those books are the present day mantra of the Contemplative prayer/ Spiritual Formation movement. This was at the same time that he sold a paid for church out from under the elders of the Northbrook church in Robinsdale MN, he took away the SDA title (No mention anywhere of our denomination on the new building), put the church over 2 million dollars into debt, brought in a rock band and TV cameras and started baptizing homosexuals without the conference permission. Then he asked to keep the tithe for himself and that is when the conference finally stepped in. If that man was not sent by Satan to help destroy the SDA church then I am not an Adventist. Then after he did all that he went right back to the Lutheran Seminary where the main emphasis is on Spiritual formation, contemplative prayer techniques. That book that he spent thousands of church dollars promoting the outreach of reading publicly says that the Spiritual Formation movement has a "vital message for the church," and has "given the body of Christ a wake up call" (p. 127 Purpose Driven Church). How did these guys get so deep into our institutions? As soon as they are discovered they send in reinforcements to persuade others against the ones making waves. The persecution I went through for sounding the alarm I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, yet these men claim to be led by and ordained by God. And guess who is promoting all the change in the church? If you guys are serious about waking up to see how they have infiltrated us, watch carefully those who advocate the changes in our denomination, look at the things they bring in, including the writings of men who are leaders of the Spiritual Formation cause. You will see that these men are in top positions inside our church now. They are everywhere and no one is going to listen to you now because these men are masters at gaining trust. Most of them have degrees in psychology and they are master manipulators. ,,,,The issue of women ordination was brought to the SDA church through those manipulators, and now they have set so many issues into motion our church is not the same as it was even ten years ago.... Ask them about where they were graduating from College. You will find the pattern there. Watch out for those who say things like "Ellen White said Jesus was mystic"... Interesting to say the least.