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once I got the original lyrics out of my mind, this was pretty cool....

if the elderly man was passing out non-SDA info at an SDA church facility, that probably wasn't such a hot idea...

The Can the constant condemning of the SDA church and it's members be considered it's own type of spiritual abuse?

The Church does not commit abuse, individuals do.

This is an awesome sermon by Stephen Bohr Sermon

Another interesting remix is combining the tune from Petra's Road to Zion with the hymn, The Solid Rock by Edward Mote. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffnfN4rITiI My hope is built on nothing less Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness; I dare not trust the sweetest frame, But wholly lean on Jesus’ name. Refrain: On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand; All other ground is sinking sand, All other ground is sinking sand. When darkness veils His lovely face, I rest on His unchanging grace; In every high and stormy gale, My anchor holds within the veil. His oath, His covenant, His blood Support me in the whelming flood; When all around my soul gives way, He then is all my hope and stay. When He shall come with trumpet sound, Oh, may I then in Him be found; Dressed in His righteousness alone, Faultless to stand before the throne.

Seems like holiness would mean maintaining our focus on the Kingdom of God, despite being surrounded by the forces of evil. That's what Christ did, of course. To cultivate holiness we would probably want to get rid of the stuff in our lives that prevent or distract us from it. A-musement actually means, not thinking, or the absence of thinking, which is probably the opposite of what we should be doing. I think that if we just sat around reading the Bible during every spare moment we might get burned out, but Bible study needs to be coupled with activities directed at making the lives of others a little better. Jesus was so famous that everyone came looking for him, but we might have to work a little harder. I kind of feel that we may not be much better than idolatrous Israel in our worship of the God of Stuff and the Gods of Amusement and Entertainment.

Appreciated. :)

soooo very ugly evil true .. In Galatians 2 we find Paul loudly rebuking Peter! Peter! the one who walked with Jesus face to face with all that glow they basked in. Peter! the one who denied our LORD and wept bitterly! Peter! the one who was restored in the eyes of the Disciples. Jesus mentioned Peter by name to tell PETER ..THE LORD IS RISEN! And here is Peter self conscious givin into peer Pressure knowing full well it would alienate fellow Brethren who Paul won over to JESUS! Peter! Whose Name was not taken off the Book of LIFE when he greatly sinned again. Amen for all of us! Paul actually states what Peter was afraid of.. " ..he wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore because he was afraid of what these Jewish legalists, who insisted that circumcision was necessary for salvation, would say.." read Galations 2:12-13 I think right there really shares much of the underlying issues in our horrid Christian Culture. To the Faithful high up ( Peter) To the Body of Christ being abused ( the Gentiles ) (as well as non Christians) And How Somebody ( Paul ) had to openly denounce it. [mike drop]

BTW i think we are all guilty.. Knowingly or not knowingly. It is one of the things that sinners naturally do. To alienate or to take things wrongly

well as Ive said .. When I hear the word "Church" i think of people. There was a time I thought of the Building. ..of course the context in the way the word is approached always points to A direction of Building, Institution, Leadership, or non rulemaking Peers. My Church (my local congregation) verses the Bigger Body of People - The Church . I used to mow and weed and scrub toilets and clean windows (all those windows) of the building. So I would definitely,once upon a time, think of the Building when hearing the word Church think of a building and its upkeep. But.. maybe cause of the Jehovah's Witnesses in my life.it was pounded into me ..to think of PEOPLE. ( they would always correct me when I say "i'm going to Church".. "umm ..your not going to a group of people u are going to a building" ) . Teresaq started this thread ..and I think she means people. And this article i posted a few posts up.. gave me more pointed solid hurts of well intended words that can cut deep ..by people. Spiritual abuse is insidious and fluid and can be very very subtle in individual in fellowship in peer pressure,attitude and ego preservation, to congregational gossip or collective judgement or very loud and demonstrative and even promoted if not commanded by people and institutionalized as a creed. All caused by the people. When I was selling books as a very young man ..I met alot of EX SDA's who told me horror stories ( at the time ..the town i lived in had three Congregations inside the City Limits and small bodies of Off Shoots not far ..and two SDA Schools (1-8 and 9-12) and an Adventist owned Health Food Store and an ABC) . I represented the Church and they unloaded. Sometimes with bitterness and sometimes just plain hurt would pour out. Me being so young and naive I didn't understand why Ever leaving the Church (institution theology people). And deep down in my heart I fretted and wanted to save them. Have them visit my local rural ultra conservative loving personable church( 10 miles outside the City limits). Then they would come back to God. It was good to me! Until... my secret was exposed ..My Church stopped seeing me as one of them. It was like night and day in one week. I became a missionary project or a castaway. And felt immediately outside. Was that Spiritual abuse? Very insidious and fluid. now ..Invite the people who used to go to church who had bad experiences with the Church (People) to my Church (People)? Someone to save ( Mission Project) or potentially write off (a castaway?) no no no I experienced first hand what others were telling me. (of course ..deep with me since 12 i knew i would be rejected if found out..but it was also family friends and society in general it also applied to) ................................................................ Flashback a lil before the scandal... Regarding about my approach to non christians in everyday knocking on doors. I never knew what was going to open the door and invite me in. And me sharing so eagerly the Books of LIFE.. I would share a Bible Story or two (or many) to illustrate the books and maybe sharing a wonderful principle. Sometimes the story would click in their eyes and other times had no idea what i was talking about. I didnt know what to do with people who didnt know the Bible in my Ministry/Work. uggh ..My youth combined with Naivete/Innocence/Idealism . In talking with a very successful Mother of Israel/Literature Evangelist about this she gave me a KEY to sharing JESUS. no matter how they act to me or make known or not make known any familiarity or understanding of the Bible or difference of theology..to still treat them as Christians That really helped with awkwardness on my part or them after. Hoo Ray! We all want to feel valued no matter what our religion or non religion. Jesus is glorified in people being loved on being held up as Gold. The Glory of OMNI in serving wretched sinners and washing their feet and treating like they are already written down in the Book of Life. "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons and daughters of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." the real test of Discipleship! . Jesus called out the Spiritual Abusers with the harshest words ever recorded. He did that not cause He hated them HE did it cause He loved them and wanting to save them from peril of Everlasting death and blocking..yes Blocking the Way to others. yeee GADS! what a crime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Spiritual abuse Blocks JESUS. That is the worst abomination we can ever do. Paul called himself as the Worse of Sinners not cause he did worst than anyone else but cause he looked upon others as not so bad as himself. To use His words "Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves" Phil 2:3 That was so attractive to the Churched marginilized. To be treated as GOLD! The Spiritual abuse of being looked down or less than..not measuring up to the Churches ideals or theology or class or wealth or social standing or reputation. A missionary project or a castaway.. but not quite like Spiritual Equal. We are all the same. We all are Sinners needing a Saviour. Every moment. the heart of every Spiritual abuse. not fully realizing what God proved on the CROSS for self and others! May the JOY of the LORD be Your Strength! .

Church means a number of things. Building Institutional leadership, i.e. corporation The invisible body of Christ etc etc What do you mean by Church ?

I was always taught that the Church means the People. Us.

Notice what God himself told Isaac about the faith of Abraham: "because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.” (Genesis 26:5) Although God's laws were not written down at the time of Abraham, the author of Genesis does not give any indication that God's commandments, statutes, and laws that Abraham kept were any different than those that were given to the Israelites. In Hebrew and Greek the word "faith" includes both the thoughts in one's head/heart and the faithful actions that are done as a result of what one believes. That is shown in the "faith chapter" (Hebrews 11) where the great men of faith are commended for what they did, rather than for what they thought.

from .. Posted 17 Aug 2015 (edited) · Report post It is with a heavy heart that I share the latest info of my friend who I mentioned on the 7th and 8th post on the 1st page. As I said He posted the OP on my FB wall. I have been sitting with this latest for a few days now. Now the very elderly (he 80 something and she 70 something )couple who have reached out to him when he started coming into my Church has been banned from going to our Church for three months. The elder man is being disciplined for sharing Non SDA approved DVD's. They have warned him before. I liken his stuff he shares as 8th Day Priest shares. Sabbath Keeping Advents Believers and not a call to leave the SDA Church or give tithes to another. Just differences of certain end time events. But an Elder saw The elder guy give something to the Organist (another lifetime SDA of 70 years) and he got in trouble. I know all parties very well. My friend is extremely upset. It is hard to back up a Church who believes it is their Job to lord over what people read and say to each other. It is unsustainable to boot. We all share what kind of God we serve. Whether we know it or not. As I said it is with a very heavy heart I share this. I don't see any recourse. My own dear Life Buddy is out of sorts over this. He usually is very calm and easy going. As a couple- I am the loud dramatic one. We care deeply for this old couple. They live on the other mountain and it will be a hardship to drive down to the valley. When you look at the inner workings of the people who make these kinds of decisions. Do we see Paul talking about cuttin out a member is as horrific as cutting of a body part or do we see people being controlling and offended rhat a church member don't agree 100 percent of everything they believe. To me its a culture/self rightouse problem .. not Theological. Jesus Himself spoke of it in Rev 3 This all also makes us look more like a CULT. OP reference and 7th and 8th post on 1st page. God bless you all. Pray for our Church. We can't be going around kicking people out of Church every time people don't obey us. People heal in fellowship. Not out of it.

> http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/church/what-not-say-someone-who-has-been-hurt-church God / Church What Not to Say to Someone Who Has Been Hurt By Church 6 misguided responses to spiritual abuse. image: http://cdn1.relevantmediagroup.com/sites/default/files/styles/node_author/public/user/picture-363379-1428428421.png?itok=JXnMTRE0 By Jonathan Hollingsworth April 27, 2015 Jonathan is an author, a speaker, and a recovering radical Christian. He left college at age 20 to pursue a new life as a missionary in Africa. Runaway Radical is his first book. A few years ago, I had my first experience with spiritual abuse. Compelled to serve God in a radical way, I dropped out of college, gave away all my possessions and moved to Africa, only to be manipulated, controlled and taken advantage of by the leaders in the mission organization. When I got home, my pastor gave me two options: I could either lie and make up a nicer-sounding story, or I could just keep my mouth shut. Either way, I was forbidden from telling the real story, inside or outside the church. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. It’s one thing to be abused by people you barely know, but it’s another thing to be betrayed by someone you trusted and looked up to. I was angry and depressed, and I fell away from church for the first time in my life. Thankfully, some of my friends understood what I was going through. Others, not so much. But what I’ve come to realize is that Christians can be pretty bad at handling spiritual abuse. Many of the responses below I’ve witnessed firsthand. In the past, I’ve even been guilty of saying a few of these myself. Here are a few things not to say to someone who has been hurt by their church: If you’re more concerned about the church’s reputation than you are about the abuse itself, you might have your priorities mixed up. 1. “No Church Is Perfect.” Instead of empathizing with those who have been hurt by a church, some Christians go right into defense mode. They might argue that the victim just had a “bad experience.” Or, they’ll say the Church is full of imperfect people who are “only human” and make mistakes just like the rest of us. But can we agree that these excuses only distract from the problem? No one wants to be told to “focus on all the good things the Church does” when they’ve been hurt by one. It doesn’t matter how many thousands of people have been positively affected by a church or ministry. The good experiences don’t cancel out the bad ones. 2. “Are You Working Toward Reconciliation?” The last thing a victim of spiritual abuse needs to do is go right back into the environment that hurt them in the first place. If someone has been attacked by a dog, would you tell them to go back and risk getting bitten again? Christians who insist on reconciliation in the face of spiritual abuse are forgetting one important thing: Abusive people can’t always be reasoned with. Not only is it dangerous to ask a victim to make amends with their abusers, it also puts an undue burden of responsibility on the victim to come up with a solution. It’s like saying, “They’re the ones who hurt you, but now it’s your job to make it right.” 3. “I Don’t Want to Gossip.” If a pastor or staff member is mistreating someone in the congregation, it’s not gossip for that person to talk about it. In fact, it’s not even gossip for you to talk about it. Imagine if you found out your brother-in-law was beating your sister. Would your first response be, “That’s none of my business”? The same way domestic abuse involves a whole family, spiritual abuse involves a whole church family. The abuse may have taken place in private, but that doesn’t make it a private matter. As Christians, if we’re going to start taking spiritual abuse seriously, we need to stop comparing it to gossip. 4. “What are Non-Believers Going to Think?” Have you ever read a headline about a Christian going public against a church or ministry and thought to yourself, “Is this providing a good witness?” If you’re more concerned about the church’s reputation than you are about the abuse itself, you might have your priorities mixed up. As Christians, we can get so preoccupied with how outsiders view the Church that we put appearances before the truth. When we try to control the narrative, we substitute the reality of the Church for our own ideal of the Church. All we’re showing the world is that we prefer a false witness over a bad one. 5. “Stop Being so Bitter.” People who have been hurt by a church have a right to be angry. Not only is anger an appropriate response to injustice, it’s a healthy response if it's channeled the right ways. So why do Christians have such a hard time letting each other express negative emotions? Why do we always have to fish for some deeper spiritual problem like a root of bitterness or unforgiveness? Not only is anger an appropriate response to injustice, it’s a healthy response if it's channeled the right ways. The other day I heard someone put it this way: “Religion will molest you, then accuse you of being bitter about it.” Do you see the double standard? When victims react to being hurt by someone in a church, we treat them as though there’s something’s wrong with them. This is why abusers are so often exonerated. It’s easier to justify letting the abuser off the hook if both parties are “in the wrong.” 6. “Is This Worth Dividing the Church Over?” How it might affect the congregation should never be the deciding factor in whether or not to expose abuse. This one especially hits home for me. When I escaped my abusive situation in Africa, my pastor wanted to sweep the whole ordeal under the rug. My silence, I was told, was for the greater good of the Gospel. It wasn’t a suggestion—it was an ultimatum. If I didn’t keep quiet, he warned, I would bring division to the entire congregation. One of the most effective ways to silence a victim is to fill them with a false sense of guilt. The victim is led to believe that talking is only going to make things worse, and whatever happens as a result is their fault. Certainly, exposing spiritual abuse can divide a congregation. But that’s not a consequence of the victim talking. It’s a consequence of the abuse perpetrated in the first place. There’s one thing that’s even more important than knowing what not to say to someone who has been hurt by church. And that is, to simply listen. Read more at http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/church/what-not-say-someone-who-has-been-hurt-church#uHimt1z1VFGwfiEt.99 .................................... i wish all can see this! and take it to heart

Awesome ... congatulations

Paul circumcised Timothy so that Timothy could be acceptable in the Jewish circles where Paul preached the Gospel. 1 Corinthians 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; Paul knew that Timothy did not have to be circumcised to be saved, neither was Timothy under any bondage because his motive for circumcision was to not give offence while preaching the Gospel.

There sure seems to be a lot of famous people dying of cancer lately... I suppose the idea that sick or old people will reach a milestone like Christmas or a birthday before passing away might be true here

Congrats!

Sexual abuse is only one part of spiritual abuse. The examples that I gave included more than sexual abuse. Spiritual abuse is more comprehensive than just sexual and incudes much more.

Churches, denominations, and religions can and do use and abuse their power to control their members, be it mind control, brainwashing, or interference in personal lives. As I see it, all religions are human-corrupted to some extent, especially the toxic, murderous ones. We have seen how some religions/denominations require the wearing of certain clothing that make their members easily recognizable as belonging to that particular religion. Some man, or men, decided that the female members must wear certain hats or hair covering or clothing, while the men usually have far fewer clothing restrictions, except for suspenders, maybe. In the Kingdom of YHVH there are no man-made religions with their arbitrary rules and controls, only obedience to the Laws that will keep us safe.