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Green, I really think you are very, very sincere in your comments. But I think you are wrong in your estimation of JoeMo. I don't see him as saying that keeping God's commandments are unnecessary. I think he is saying that he has learned not to obsess over the letter of the law, and is letting the Holy Spirit convict him of what issues he needs to work on, and is letting the HS help him in that work. Obedience out of fear might make for a sinless life, but that life would be akin to that of a slave constantly trying to avoid the whip of the plantation master. That's no life. Instead of worrying how to prevent God from being angry with us, isn't it better to think of how to make God happy? Yes, He wants us to be obedient, but it's primarily because He knows it will make us happy too, in the long run. He doesn't want us to be obedient simply to keep us from hellfire and damnation. But that's just my perception and opinion..

I was ready to leave the church when I joined CA several years ago after corresponding with one of the Moderators. A person who no longer posts much engaged me privately on why I was leaving. He went through the 28 Fundies with me; and I discovered that I had no reason to leave the denomination; just the SDA subculture culture I had been associated with. I met some of the greatest, most open-minded, balanced SDA's ever on CA. I also met some members of the legalistic subculture from which I was escaping; and found that many of them have great talking points and concerns as well. I have to say that some of you out there saved me from leaving the church altogether. I still wouldn't call myself the world's best Adventist (I have issues with the infallibility [err...I mean freedom from error] associated with EGW and disagree completely with some of her interpretations; and I'm not a Trinitarian. But I feel more "at home" with Adventists than any other group.

APL has it wrong. Green does NOT ignore what APL alleges.

Read More Daily Jesus Scripture: Romans 16:19 Starting Question: How does your faith shape the way you spend your day? Sabbath Proof Once while riding the boat to Tasmania, I felt someone staring at me and looked up. In front of me stood a father and his eight-year-old son. Robert and Isaiah were their names, I would later discover. Robert was almost glowing as he said, “Is that the Word, brother?” I smiled and looked down at the Bible open on the table in front of me. “Yes. Yes it is!” I wondered what could come next, after such an introduction. Robert quickly ascertained that I was a Christian and pumped me for my profile: Seventh-day Adventist, doing my morning reading. He was impressed. I was amused by his interest in my spiritual biography. “Come, Isaiah,” he concluded. “Let's allow Dave to return to God's Book.” And with that, they walked into the cafeteria. Moments later Isaiah bolted back into my presence, “Would you please sit with us for breakfast? I'll save you a seat!” I said that would be nice, closed my Bible and followed him into the dining area. As breakfast ended, Robert said, Dave, would I be able to talk to you in private? I have a question.” I told him I would go to the lounge on the next deck and wait for him there. I had barely sat down and Robert was across the table from me. “Can you prove to me, without using the Bible, that the Sabbath is still valid?” I was intrigued that someone so enamoured with seeing me reading the Bible would now make such a request. But why no Bible? I wondered. He continued, “I'll be honest with you. I've been to a number of seminars at your Adventist churches. So, I've heard all the Bible proofs you use for the Sabbath. I want to know if it's still valid. So, can you prove the Sabbath is still important to keep, on Saturday, in our time?” This was a unique request: Prove the Sabbath, without using any of the Sabbath passages in the Bible. An answer came, “Robert, are you familiar with the call to tithing in Malachi?” “You mean where it says, ‘Bring your tithes and offerings into God's storehouse?'” he asked. “Yes,” I replied. “That's it. It demonstrates that tithing is more about God's promise than our obedience. The text states that if God's people give 10 per cent of their income—a tithe—He will bless them. It actually says He will pour so many blessings on their lives they won't have storehouses big enough to store all the bounty! The Sabbath is like tithing. God promises, over and over in Scripture, that if we honour His Sabbath, He will bless us. Robert, I would like to offer you a challenge.” His eyes widened, “OK. What is it?” “Keep the Sabbath for six months. Set it aside as a special day for God and see if He blesses you. I bet He will richly bless your life.” Robert smiled. “My wife and I have been keeping the Sabbath for the past year, and God has been blessing us like never before!” The Holy Spirit, working in their lives, had provided the answer before Robert even thought to ask! Reflection Question: Do you have any questions in your life that God is answering through your own experience? Prayer time: Before you pray together, ask: What would you like to say to Jesus today? Further Reading: To Be Like Jesus, Page 67 -x-x-x-x-X-x-x-x-x GET ONE OF DAVE'S BOOKS, FREE! Support this project by clicking here and pledging a small monthly amount. View the full article

My Sabbath is well past. It was not spent in church. Most of it was spent in direct medical missionary work with a patient who was in great pain. I hope it was a blessing to this not-yet-baptized individual. Blessings, Green Cochoa.

Green: Happy Sabbath, wherever you are. May it bring a blessing to you.

Green has it right.

I don't buy that.

It's legal here, but the bike can be doing a maximum of 30 km/h (about 20 mph), so it's only worth it when the lines of cars are stopped or moving significantly slower than that. You talk about the risks of 'splitting' or 'filtering' up between the lanes, but in stop-start traffic there are rear-enders due to driver inattention all the time. If I'm going to be between two cars I want them to be side-by-side, stationary with respect to each other in my direction, rather than one stopped in front of me and one doing 60 km/h behind me.

Indeed, there is only one way to salvation. Thank you for making this so clear. The path to salvation is so clear that none need err therefrom. Blessings, Green Cochoa.

I hope those bikers driving between lanes on the freeway are body-part donors with life insurance. A driver of a vehicle changing lanes while a motorcycle pulls up from behind them in-between lanes likely will be unable to see the bike. I would never, ever drive between lanes unless I wanted to die. I might drive on the paved shoulders on either side of the freeway, which would be safer than in-between two lanes.

"“If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.” “And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him because we keep his commandments and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.” “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children keep yourselves from idols.” The Lord is soon to come. We want that complete and perfect understanding which the Lord alone can give. It is not safe to catch the spirit from another. WE WANT THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST. If we commune with God, we shall have strength and grace and efficiency.” {Lt66-1894 (April 10, 1894) par. 18} - EGW *previously unpublished statement "JEHOVAH, OUR FATHER, AND HIS SON JESUS CHRIST ARE ALONE TO BE EXALTED. The knowledge of God is eternal life to those who receive it. His holy banner is to stand elevated above all the greatness of the greatest men, above all the honor and glory of the world.” {Ms11-1898 (June 29, 1898) par. 11} - EGW *previously unpublished statement "Christ is to be known by the blessed name of Comforter.” {Ms7-1902 (January 26, 1902) par. 10} - EGW *previously unpublished statement "Before He left them, Christ gave His followers a positive promise that after His ascension He would send them the Holy Spirit. “Go, ye therefore,” He said, “and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father (a personal God) and of the Son (a personal Prince and Saviour), and of the Holy Ghost (sent from heaven to represent Christ); teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” {Ms41-1897 (April 29, 1897) par. 34} - EGW *inserted comments in original. *previously unpublished statement Christ the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,—one in nature, in character, and in purpose,—the only being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. By Christ, the Father wrought in the creation of all heavenly beings. “By him were all things created, that are in Heaven, . . . whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers;” [Colossians 1:16.] and to Christ, equally with the Father, all Heaven gave allegiance. {GC88 493.1}

Green ignores the fact that all human life today received their life from the creator via Adam and Eve. It is the breath of life that sustains the growing child in the womb. Does green denies the humanity of the unborn child? The humanity of Christ was demonstrated by the interaction between Mary and Elisabeth, unborn John and Jesus.

Ironically the author of Ecclesiastes may have been the first person to have written the line "There is nothing new under the sun."

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. 13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus....Acts 4 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....John 14 God is Love!~Jesus saves! Hope your Sabbath is a

I could say the same thing to you. The conclusion of the matter is that we must agree to disagree. I'm 66 years old; and I spent many years trudging the path of Trying To Please God on my way Being All I Could Be. I spent most of my time frustrated and self-loathing, wallowing in guilt and self-centeredness thinking about what a sinner I was and how I'd better get my act together if I don't want to be roasted in the lake of fire. I wavered between being angry at God for teaching me all this stuff (making me "responsible"); and being afraid that He was angry with me. It wasn't working out well. When I turned around and started down the path of Trusting God on my way to Overcoming Sin Together With Jesus, I actually started on the path to victory - not instantly over everything; but through a process led by the Spirit of addressing one thing at a time. He's still working on me; but we work together. Instead of focusing about how wicked I was, I started focusing on how wonderful, loving, and patient God is; and it gets hard to stop thinking about it once you start. I've had this type of discussion with others here for several years; and the issue is never resolved. Good luck on your path to salvation. I would suggest that if you don't like TOP, don't go to their gatherings. As for me, I was blessed at the one I attended; and given the opportunity I will attend another. Blessings and adios, JoeMo

Our 4th son was due to be born in a couple of months when Roe Vs Wade was passed. My dad remarked to me that the flood gates had now been opened. Saying he expected the time would come that a "fetus" could be aborted at anytime for any reason. I didn't believe him at that time. Our second son was born two months early and his survival was iffy at best. He was definitely a little human being.I could not get my head around aborting him willingly at that time and if born alive just let him lay there and die. Or aborting the son I was carrying when that law went into effect. There are now many discussions on the possible reasons for "after birth abortion" Or legalized murder

wow. I hadn't heard about Dr. Kîs' death. I met him at campmeeting, and we had a wonderful conversation. Such a caring and warm person. Very sad that he's gone..

Jackson, Let's not forget: "if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you: You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country. Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed. The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks. You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out..."(Deut. 28:15-67). That is one of my favorites. All I can say is that I don't believe the way you do. Good luck on your path to trying to earn your salvation. I'm gonna trust that Jesus did a good enough job on the cross to save me; and work together with Him to incorporate the Family Values. He has promised to forgive my sin and cleanse me from my unrighteousness if I just confess and believe. He who began a good work in me will be faithful to complete it. All I have to do is cooperate.

I am not trying to defend Alex - I don't know him any better than I know you. I am simply opining that we have no right to judge another's motives or their heart. That's God's job. That's a sad commentary (if it's true). At least they still worship regularly. How do you know whether or not a significant number of his congregation did or didn't leave that church for another SDA Church when there were no more Sabbath services? How do you know Alex didn't have a change of heart about starting a Sunday service once the unintended consequences of doing so were made manifest? With the cited article (and website) appearing to be anonymous, why should I give it any credibility? For a few years, I was actively involved in an SDA Church that got in trouble for using non-SDA material in Sabbath School. The Conference threatened to disband our church. Rather than be disbanded, our pastor simply resigned her SDA ministerial credentials, requested that our church be taken off of denominational roles. We became a Sabbath-keeping non denominational-church. We were meeting on Saturdays in a Sunday keeping church. The pastor of the church we were using was so impressed with us, that he encouraged his Sunday congregation to worship with us on occasion. Several of those who did became Sabbath keepers. We started playing around with the idea of adding a Sunday service to grow our congregation. It never happened, because the church decided that it would be confusing to proclaim a 7th-Day Sabbath and suddenly add a service on Sunday. But that was us; I can't judge how other congregations would vote. For me, Sabbath is intimately intertwined with my relationship with Jesus; but it's not my place to put that burden of committed Sunday keepers. After all, our salvation is dependent on our relationship with Jesus Christ and observing all the commandments without emphasizing just one. Sabbath keeping won't get you into heaven; a relationship with Jesus will.

I'm sad to hear this news about Neil. We had fun together on this forum exchanging limericks and pirate lingo, and so much other fun. I never met him but still I counted him as a friend.