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Pretty sure a lot of people are projecting their own motivations onto Stan, and that, knowing him as well as I do, those things are not what he was saying. Arguments are futile when people don't care to learn.

April is planting time here in East Texas. I'm outside all day, most days. Just taking a "break today" to clean house and prepare for Sabbath, so thought I'd check in. Ya'll enjoy Sabbath now. That's East Texan for Shabbat Shalom.

I agree with your post Stan, but yet I am puzzled by words of posts agreeing with you while getting in another dig at the person and subject. I guess it all depends on each persons perspective on the subject.

The message that we present to others depends, in part, on the view we have of the God that we present. I would reject the God that some present, if I thought that it was an accurate picture of God.

They are non ending no resolve and destroying the community feel

I cannot agree Alchemy. The "woman" - "harlot" rides on the Beast. SHE is not the BEAST. And HER name is "Babylon". Personally, I believe she is the system of false worship, which began at Ancient Babylon, under Nimrod, and spread to the whole world.

I believe the last 3.5 years (1260 days) of persecution will LEAD UP TO the Second Coming in glory. (See past posts.) The persecution of Daniel 11:33,35, is NOT CONNECTED to a specific time period. It is most likely the persecution of the last 1260 days. Though we have seen, and are seeing severe persecution of Christians by Muslims, all over the world - now. I believe the 1260 days will see the trumpet judgments, except trumpet #7 - the "last trump", which will be the VIAL PLAGUES. The 7 vial plagues (resulting in the WORST "time of trouble" ever seen on earth) will be "poured out" on the DAY that Christ returns. ("Therefore her plagues will come in one day.") Something happens which initiates the last vial sequence, which will completely destroy all life on planet earth. The redeemed will be translated off this earth before the vial plagues are poured out.

The LORD cursed Jehoiachin (or Jeconiah, or Coniah) (Jeremiah 22:30). He was the king. No descendant of his would EVER sit on David's throne, ruling the tribes of Israel. The line from Solomon (so far as a ruling king) ENDS with Jehoiachin. So how can Messiah come from this line?? Answer: He could not be biologically descended from Jehoiachin. But he COULD be legally descended, though adoption by Joseph (who WAS descended from this line - the royal line). Mary was descended from David, through Nathan. Where does the Bible say that Messiah CANNOT come through maternal descent?

I think people can disagree with one another without being dishonest or insincere. One can be sincere; and yet be sincerely wrong. For that matter, both parties can be sincerely wrong. This is particularly true in matters of faith, philosophy, and politics; where so much is based on the subjective and qualitative rather than the objective and quantitative measurements of an argument's pro's or con's. It is usually the case when people disagree with me that they are sincerely wrong.

Pickle, You and Andrews University are entitled to your opinions. Others of us are entitled to their opinions. I am not uncomfortable with having different opinions on things people a lot smarter than me can't even agree on.

"We are to proclaim to the world the great and solemn truths of Revelation. Into the very designs and principles of the church of God these truths are to enter. A benediction is pronounced upon those who pay due regard to this communication. The blessing is promised to encourage a study of this book. We are by no means to become weary of looking into it because of its apparently mystical symbols." {PUR, January 14, 1904 par. 2} "The Revelation is a sealed book, but it is also an open book, recording marvelous events that are to take place in the last days of this earth's history. Its teachings are definite, not mystical and unintelligible, and God would have us understand it." {ST, January 11, 1899 par. 5} "Prophecies of Revelation Repeat Prophecies of Daniel.-- Revelation is a sealed book, but it is also an opened book. It records marvelous events that are to take place in the last days of this earth's history. The teachings of this book are definite, not mystical and unintelligible. In it the same line of prophecy is taken up as in Daniel. Some prophecies God has repeated, thus showing that importance must be given to them. The Lord does not repeat things that are of no great consequence." --Manuscript 107, 1897, pp. 1,2. {9MR 7.5} [FYI: My current manuscript, The Great Controversy: Earth's Gran Finale is currently being considered by a well known publisher of religious literature. For years, I had tried to get a publisher to look at my studies. Then on March 6 I sent a one page fact sheet to several people on my personal email list. On March 7 I had a request (unsolicited) by a publisher for the manuscript for their review. Please pray that's God's will shall be done.]

As my son quipped recently, "I wasn't expecting anything and I was still disappointed."

They are of interest to all to the extent that they might influence his legislation.

A simple presentation of the Great Controversy/Good News theme in magazine format might go a lot farther than 600-page books to connect with people. Maybe there are magazines like that already being published and distributed, I don't know. If the authors keep the language simple and add some contemporary artwork, that should be much more appealing to most people who aren't motivated to sit down long enough to read through thick books. Most people don't really care about all of the details of events covered in GC, therefore, it's not a compelling-enough read to finish the book. The grand sweep of the history of Christianity should be covered in just a few magazine pages. Web links to the magazine should hit another target audience. Anyway, events of the past few years may have made EGW's predictions concerning the papacy obsolete. We'll have to just wait and see. Same story for the life and teachings of Christ. Mass mailings should be short and simple, but well-done, and denomination-free.

Being saved under the name if Jesus means being saved by his character. This is open to everyone. Christians have an advantage because we realize that the time Jesus was on earth was when God was with us. And Jews have advantage because they have an awareness of this God who we Christians believe that Jesus is. And even Muslims are trying to reach out to this God. The Advent movement of 1844 went throughout Christianity, Judaism and Islam. But even in paganism and atheism there are people who are reaching out to this character and people who are rejecting this character. Those who are reaching out to this character, who are praying (in what ever way they understand prayer) for the types of things Jesus would pray for are praying in the name or character of Jesus. The more light we have, the more knowledge of this character we have. Our understanding of the issues of the Great Controversy and the truth about the end of the wicked gives us advantages to those who are at a complete blank as to the origin of evil, or those who think that God is going to roast and toast people or who face a death that's the end, or to come back to again deal with the issues of living in this world. However we still have the Holy Spirit reaching out to everyone pointing them to this Character (and sadly the Charismatic movement has the disadvantage of having a Holy Spirit pointing to himself and his gifts, instead of to this Character.) And we have everyone who are either yielding to the Spirit's pleading and are thus reaching out to this Character, or hardening their hearts to this Character and living for self. As we share what we know people may have a clearer picture of this character. The issue with the 7 heads are how Satan wants to get people to only look out for themselves. We are in a war between thinking we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world, and loving the world as Jesus has loved it. I am becoming more convinced that the talk of God in the whirlwind to Job about working with behemoth is the beast of Revelation, working with the peoples, as well as dealing with the Leviathan, the issues that Satan has raised. (and thus in these Job understood what was happening and had his questions answered.) The 7th head is how we will all find ourselves in a situation where it will be to our disadvantage to not go along with the system unless we give up some point of conscience and look out for ourselves.

Joeb said: Joeb, you have certainly made a lot of assumptions; 1) I do not dislike everything that you might post. As a matter of fact, I have not read enough of your posts it know whether or not I would dislike everything that you post. 2) To delibertly confuse the issue: Sorry. In good faith I was confused as to what you said and so I asked you an honest question. I expected that you would clarify rather than engage in name-calling. IOW, I expected good discussion with clear science. 3) Dishonesty: You sure seem to ascribe motives, at least to me. You probably do not know me well enough to know my motives. 4) If you engage in name-calling to the extent that you have done with me, it must be hard to have an honest discussion with you.

Fascinating article http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/people-in-the-bible/50-people-in-the-bible-confirmed-archaeologically/

Excellent thread and material. Thanks for the information.

Dots have not been connected to make definitive answer........waiting.....

As the above quote is from the same wikipedia page you quoted, don't you think it's ironic that you somehow "missed" that in your quote? Argue against that law all you desire. You'll never be correct. A heat pump works by making use of that law. It has two coils. A low temp-low pressure coil/heat exchanger and a high temp/high pressure coil/heat exchanger. It uses what is called a reversing valve to reverse operation between heating and cooling. During the heating process the outdoor coil operates at 15 to 30 degrees farenheit below outdoor ambient temperature, depending on the age and efficiency of the unit, and as a result the heat in the outdoor air flows into the cooler refrigerant causing it to boil away as it absorbs the heat. The compressor then adds the heat of compression to the temperature of the gaseous refrigerant and pumps it into the indoor coil in a high pressure superheated state. As the indoor air handler moves air over the coil the hot gas gives up its heat into the cooler air flowing over it and condenses back down to a liquid that then flows back to the outdoor coil through a metering device to repeat the same cycle over and over again. The heat transferred always flows from hot to cold. It never changes. The fact that you want to claim a mechanical transfer of heat using an electrical motor and a mechanical pump is a natural heat flow only shows your desperation to show I'm wrong, or your ignorance of how this works. The actual transfer of heat is always from hot to cold. You're arguing with an expert in the field. I can engineer AC, heat pump, and refrigeration systems, and have done so, as well as reverse enginner/troubleshoot and repair them, so I know how they work. I know them inside and out. I know the principles they operate under. AC and all refrigeration systems work according to the same principle. They just don't have reversing valves. They move heat from inside the conditioned space and get rid of it either into air or water. All transfer between the two spaces is done mechanically. Mechanical movement of the medium holding the heat is not natural heat flow. All attempts to portray it as such are foolish.

Still waiting...

" But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[a] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:21-23) " For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. (Rom. 3:28-30) "As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[a]12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Rom. 10:11-13) From the above verses, I conclude that these in no difference between Jews and Gentiles in the New Covenant.

I am glad you stepped in and said something. As we all noticed the comments were getting a lil meaner and who knows how bad if could have gotten. The Body of Christ is connected to each other. We are connected! Nothing should sever the ties that has been forming here. Perhaps ....with a better Spirit by all. meanwhile.. How about those Dolphins.. huh?

Sorry folks...but I am getting older and weaker....waiting for this strings of texts and quotes to make sense to me. I have been around since the days of Shepherds Rod and that was their way of 'predicting'. Many others have tried to do the same thing. That is simply the way conspiracies try to work their magic, never quite making a definitive point but weaving it all together hoping someone/s will do it for them. It leaves the predicter a way out when nothing happens according to their prediction. It continues on until with more agenda until they make a fatal mistake of being exact, much like the SR and others. Mount Carmel...remember that one?

Just to clarify, I am NOT implying that Jesus is not the Messiah. The verses I quoted merely showed that Jesus could not be an earthly king of Judah. He Himself said His Kingdom is not of this world. I believe that Jesus was the Son of God from before time began. His true patriarchal lineage is directly from God - not as a creation; but as the express image of God. IMHO that trumps any physical lineage limitations. I affirm that Jesus Christ is the begotten (not created) Son of God; and that He is God; and the creator of all that is seen and unseen. He is also the only Name under heaven by whom we can be saved. There is no other.

There can be no counterfeit, beforehand. Not until the genuine article is first revealed (either in actuality or by prior description) can the counterfeit be developed and presented. Unless the counterfeiter can somehow see into the mind of God and know what God is planning.

The Biblical teaching is that one must be fed spiritual milk prior to being fed meat. In human life, to feed a young baby solid food is clearly going to lead to problems, potentially both then and in future life. Also in human life one should normally be proficient in algebra prior to attempting to learn calculus. The same is true in our spiritual life. To confront a person with spiritual truth before they are at a spiritual level that allows them to receive it can do spiritual damage. Both postage and printing is not free. To do a mass mailing of a book that probably most will simply throw away is to waste resources that could be better used to bring people to Christ. Tell me, of what spiritual value is it for one to believe in the actual state of the dead, believe that the Catholic church should not call priests Holy Father and to believe that the 7th day is the Sabbath, if that person who so believes is not converted to Christ. While there may be exceptions, THE GREAT CONTROVERSEY is probably not the best tool to bring people to Christ. The overall human responsibility to bring people to Christ in a geographic area rests with congregations and their members and the administrative divisions of the organized church that governs that geographic area. All to often those who do mass mailing of THE GREAT CONTROVERSEY do not coordinate with those who are responsible. They seek to promote their agenda--mail GC. They fail to ask what is most needed. They are not around to provide follow-up to any interests who may be developed. They may need follow-up responses to people who are not prepared to provide such. When people fail to coordinate more harm may be done than actual good.

When I say we have been through this drill before, I was speaking of going through false "prophetic" predictions that such and such president will be the last, or this pope will be the last, or Jesus will definitely come after such and happens or will come on this date.... The associations and connect the dots approach I am reading here is looking an awful lot like reading an astrology horoscope.

Again, 2 Thess 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it (context: the 2nd coming of Christ - see verse 1) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. The "man of sin": 1] Exalts himself. We saw this in Dan 8:11: "He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host (Christ)" 2] He figuratively takes the place of Christ in His temple. Q1: What is Christ, our Great High Priest doing in heaven, now? Answer: Let me quote Ellen White then I'll get it from the Bible, the final authority: "Jesus stands in the holy of holies (God's temple), now to appear in the presence of God for us. There He ceases not to present His people moment by moment, complete in Himself." Now the Bible: Heb 10:19 "Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus (i.e., His life laid down in death), 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh...." Through the humanity of Christ we have been perfected. In Him we stand complete (Col 1:22). Apparently "the man of sin" believes that he can forgive sin. Apparently he believes that he is Christ's substitute on earth.

Thank heavens you spoke up about this glaring problem. Gayguy' riding his agenda on his one-trick-pony has gone on way far too long. I had prayed for this place to come back to more harmony in christian-adventist dialogue and depart from all this fanfare for the support of a topic whose fundament is based on sin. Let's please follow JoeMo's advice and not respond to the existing threads on the homo topics. (feeling relief in being able to express what has been pent up in me.)

We don't "know" for a fact, but many theologians and Bible scholars are of the opinion that Heli (mentioned in Luke 3:23) was the father of Mary; and he was NOT descended from Solomon. In Matthew 1 (assumed by many theologians to be the genealogy of Jesus through Joseph,) we see that the lineage of Joseph included Solomon and Jehoiakim (Matt.1:6,11). Through Jeremiah, God told us that no descendant of Jehoiakim would ever rule Israel. "As surely as I live,” declares the Lord, “even if you, Jehoiachin[c] son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, were a signet ring on my right hand, I would still pull you off. 25 I will deliver you into the hands of those who want to kill you, those you fear—Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and the Babylonians.[d] 26 I will hurl you and the mother who gave you birth into another country, where neither of you was born, and there you both will die. You will never come back to the land you long to return to.” Is this man Jehoiachin a despised, broken pot, an object no one wants? Why will he and his children be hurled out, cast into a land they do not know? O land, land, land, hear the word of the Lord! This is what the Lord says: “Record this man as if childless, a man who will not prosper in his lifetime, for none of his offspring will prosper none will sit on the throne of David or rule anymore in Judah.” (Jer.22:24-30) If the lineages are reversed; and Matt. is actually recording the lineage of Mary, the same would be true.

Henry, at this pace, you will run out of time within Obama's term as president. Just get to the point of explaining how you see how anything in Daniel the connects to Obama's term as president. You have boldly predicted that Christ will return while Obama is president. What makes you believe that? If Daniel give a clue that leads to that specific of a prediction, it should be more than a hunch or rank speculation.

Someone had made reference to those who might be trying to hide something behind the fact that they wouldn't put there picture or given name for public view on the forum. I was merely wanting to make it plain there are some, including myself, who have no ulterior motive other than not being computer savvy enough to find it easy to install the picture, as well as being motivated by news items like this that make it more and more difficult to trust in my fellow human being.

Hch, “Where's the evidence of prophecy fulfilled in all of your many words?” Lol. Sometimes you make me laugh hch. I should remind you that I originally asked you when you thought the Roman Empire ended. First you said that the Roman Empire ended in 476. Then you retreated from that and said that the Roman Empire in ended in 395 when it split. Now you’re retreating further still and taking a softer tone by saying it merely “ceased to be the Roman Empire as it had been,” instead of saying it ended as you did earlier. And even that sounds tenuous and circumspect. What exactly is that supposed to mean anyway, “ceased to be the Roman Empire as it had been”? Do you mean it was no longer the Roman Empire? If so, then what happened after it split in 395? Are you suggesting it collapsed in 395? Or are you saying it ceased to be the Roman Empire? And what historical source would agree with you I wonder. So far you’ve only quoted yourself. And that is just plain embarrassing. That’s like saying to someone, I believe something and then quoting what you just said to prove that what you believe is true. No, what you believe and quoting yourself about that belief is only restating what you believe, it isn’t proving it. It doesn’t even sound like you’re convinced, let alone trying to convince others. Sounds more like damage limitation control to me. “The Eastern Roman Empire was carved up by 10-germanic tribes” Lol! How far in this fantasy do you want to go? Which ten tribes nonsense are you even talking about? I don’t even see ten tribes in your partial timeline. Why do you just make things up, and somehow believe by inventing it in your head somehow reality has conformed to it? It’s just getting really silly and evermore embarrassing for you. And by the way, this 10-tribe division of the Western Roman Empire theory that involves the Pope uprooting 3 is also a pure fiction, as I’ve already presented (its not even certain that there were 10 tribes; the alleged 3 were actually not deposed by the Pope – Vandals and Ostrogoths by the Roman Emperor Justinian, the Heruli by the Vandals; neither were they all destroyed because of being Arian – Heruli (Arian) were destroyed by the Lombards (Arian)). You ignored it, but ignoring something doesn’t mean you’ve disproved it. It just means you ignored it. In fact, the opposite is usually more likely to be true – you ignored it because it disproved what you said. You can continue down this line of thinking if you want, I would urge you not to, but its your choice – after all, its not me who’s looking embarrassed, it’s you. “The Eastern Roman Emperor was powerless long before the date you cite.” So are you saying it didn’t fall in 1453? Say it outright if that’s what you think. Becoming less and less powerful doesn’t mean an empire has finally ended – it simply means it has become less and less powerful. And that is actually quite normal(!) as far as empires go. What are we to do with all those historians who say that after 476 AD the Eastern Roman Empire continued for another thousand years? (476 – 1453 is more or less a thousand) I don’t know, maybe we could believe them? I would. I do. But judging by what you say, I feel you’ll probably just ignore them. Oh well. There’s not much I can do about that. “I still await your correlation of Bible prophecy fulfilled with your rendition of history.” “You have yet to give any concrete proof that you know what you are talking about.” Lol! What have you been doing all this time? Are you just ignoring my posts, intimidated by its quotes from actual books on history? I don’t need to explain further because I’ve already stated it, even in summary points to make it as clear as it could possibly be. You have to respond to what I actually wrote, not think just that because you’ve ignored it and not read it that you have somehow refuted it. What rules of human communication are you actually following? When people put points forward in the real world, those are real points that you need to address, not ignore. But it sounds to me that you don’t live there – the real world I mean. “I predicted that Pope Benedict would not be pope in 2013” I’m not sure what benefit that predicting Benedict not being pope in 2013 has? It doesn’t prove anything, because its quite simply irrelevant. Has the world grovelled underneath the Papacy because Benedict would no longer be pope? And Revelation doesn’t even talk about popes anyway. Do you see the word “pope” there? Where exactly? Closing We can keep on going like this ad infinitum. Until you actually read what I wrote and engage with that, you’ll just be parroting what you said in the beginning, without ever dealing the points that I raised which actually refute your position, and still remain to do so. As you’ve supplied a “partial” timeline (I’m not even sure what this proves), I’ve supplied a full timeline of all the Roman Emperors from the beginning of the Roman Empire to its end - please see the attachments. It is taken from one of the most famous historical works on the subject, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbons. If you look on the last page the final entry says simply this: “1453: Capture of Constantinople by Mahomet II and end of the Roman Empire.” If this can’t convince you, then I think nothing will – but that will only blatantly reveal your bias for tradition and not search for truth. All the best P.S. The IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) Director Yukiya Amano has been reported to have stated only a couple of days ago that a Nuclear Terror Attack is a real risk (many Watchman like Eric Stakelbeck and Glenn Beck and others have been warning about this for years). Ironically, Obama echoed the same thing at the Nuclear Security Summit (that’s rich coming from the only president to have negotiated nuclear power to Iran, a terrorist state). Sounds pretty serious to me. The time for Papal fantasy is ending. Islam is already here. But just like World War I & II, the signs were not heeded. And the world upended as a result. This time, it will bring on Armaggeddon. And those who persisted not to believe in Jesus’ warning in Revelation or his Salvation, even from within Christianity, will be found in serious peril.

8thdaypriest, I think you’re exactly spot on, and your observance is extremely perceptive. I have wanted to commend you more on your thoughts previously but I’ve had little time. Your observance that “the lamb-like beast is ‘the false prophet’” as well as “the Beast cannot actually be Satan, but only an agency OF Satan” are my thoughts exactly! Now I’m addressing all readers. The Lamb Beast as the False Prophet This Lamb-like Beast seems to parallel “the false prophet.” Now it seems clear to me, and it should to everyone, that a “false prophet” is literally that: a human being who is falsely seen as a prophet. And this ‘false prophet’ is distinct from the ‘Sea Beast’ because he forces upon the nations the worship of the “First Beast before him” (Rev. 13.12) – obviously by calling the ‘Sea Beast’ the “First Beast” and qualifying it with “before him” distinguishes the Sea Beast from the False Prophet/Land Beast. Yet they have the same “authority”: “He exercises all the authority of the first beast before him” (Rev. 13.12). But he looks like a Lamb and speaks like the Dragon. A lamb has only ever been a symbol of one person and one person alone – Jesus, the sacrificial lamb to save the world. It has never been representative of a nation or the religion Christianity. Therefore, I think the traditional Adventist interpretation that refers this to the United States is faulty because it extrapolates far beyond what the image represents. Anyone would be hard pressed to find any text that suggested a Lamb represented the United States. And speaking like the Dragon means he speaks like Satan. So it must refer to the fact that this False Prophet, is a human being who is an exact replica of Jesus (Lamb) but is in fact a Satanic incarnation (hence, speaking like a Dragon). And this is fitting to the description of ‘False Prophet’: a human being who is falsely seen as a prophet. The Return of the Mahdi and Isa What became fascinating for me, was when I heard a most brilliant revelation given to Joel Richardson (New York Times best-selling author of The Islamic Antichrist), that revealed how in the Islamic end-time end-game, Muslims believe that their saviour-king, The Mahdi, is to return at the End of Days – this is why leaders like former Iranian President Ahmadinejad and the Iranian Ayatollahs have been calling for his return. But they also believe that Jesus/Isa will also return with him. Even Islamic State said as much in a video of beheading 20 Coptic Christian Egyptians on the shores of Libya. Ryan Mauro, ClarionProject.org’s national security analyst and professor of homeland security, describes what they said: “Jesus, peace be upon him, will descend, breaking the cross, killing the swine and abolishing the jizya [tax on non-Muslims],” the English-speaking Islamic State member says to the camera. Here, the Islamic State is citing an apocalyptic Islamic prophecy about Jesus appearing with the Mahdi, the Islamic messiah, to vanquish Islam’s enemies. According to this prophecy, Jesus will authenticate the validity of Islam and disprove Christianity by destroying a cross. Sometime after he reappears, the entire world will become Muslim, and so the jizya tax on non-Muslims will no longer be needed. This is not a fringe interpretation of the prophecy only held by Islamic State. Other Islamists like Al-Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood also refer to it. This is based on their scriptures: “The Messenger of Allah said: A section of my people will not cease fighting for the truth and will prevail until the Day of resurrection. He said: Jesus son of Mary would then descend and their commander [the Mahdi] would invite him to come and lead them in prayer, but he would say: No, some amongst you are commanders over some.” – Hadith Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0293, Narrated by Jabir bin ‘Abdullah. ‘The Prophet [Muhammad] said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus. He will descend (to the earth)… He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam.’ – Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 37, Number 4310, Narrated by Abu Hurayrah: see also Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 656. The Match Between Islamic History and Eschatology with Biblical Prophecy So lets play this out (I won’t include references to avoid too lengthy a post). The Seventh Head (Birth 622; Succession 1453) The 7th Head/Empire as has been established is the Islamic Empire of the Ottoman Dynasty, beginning in 622 with Muhammad, and succeeding the Roman Empire in 1453 with Mehmet/Muhammad II ‘The Conquerer’. The Mortal Wound: World War I (1914-18) to the Abolition of the Caliphate (1924) The 7th Head is to have had a Mortal Wound. Mortal wounds are wounds that lead to death which is why some translate it “wounded to death.” 8thdaypriest also rightly pointed out that it is a wound inflicted by a “sword” (Rev. 13.14). A sword in this context, it seems to me, represents war (swords are used for violent warfare) on a global scale as depicted in Rev. 6.4, which depicts a red horseman with a “great sword” turning planet “earth” into a slaughtering ground with no “peace”. In 1914 the first truly global war got underway. In that war the crumbling Ottoman Empire was called upon by its ally Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany to attack the British assets in the Middle East/Asia/North Africa. This culminated in one of the greatest invasions of the war at the Battle of Gallipoli where allied forces tried to take Constantinople. They failed, but won the war. The hero to come out of this battle was Mustafa Kemal, soon to be known as ‘Ataturk’, Father of modern day Turkey. Eventually, the result for the Ottoman Sultans was that the more secular politicians started taking over, and this finally culminated in Ataturk becoming the lifelong president of the newly formed Turkey, abolishing the Turkish Sultnate, and thus ringing the death knell, once and for all, for the 1400-year reign of the Islamic Caliph. Total utter decimation. This was a massive shock to the Islamic world. For the first time in its history there was no caliph. So, in my estimation, the First World War was the ‘wound struck by the sword’ that Rev. 13 refers to. As suggested by the phrase “mortal wound,” it was a wound that gradually over a short period of time would lead to its death. The Islamic Caliphate of the Ottoman Dynasty being struck in World War I, gradually led to its death in 1924 when Ataturk abolished the Caliphate after 1400 years. Gone. No more. Shock. Disaster. The Wound Healed: The Return of the Islamic Caliphate and The Rise of Islamic State (2014) And ever since, Islamist groups have been calling for its return, from the Muslim Brotherhood, Al-Qaeda, and now Islamic State, who actually believe they in 2014 have brought it back! And many are starting to recognise that they have successfully done so, since they are actually functioning like a state. And now more and more Christians are beginning to recognise this phenomenal act of historical proportions. They announced it in June 2014. Interestingly enough, the Islamic Empire was born in the same month June back in 622. And now, they are calling for the return of the Mahdi (Beast) and Jesus (Lamb/False Prophet)! Exactly as Rev. 13 foretold! The Image of the Beast Comes to Life What’s even more fascinating (as if that wasn’t fascinating enough!) is that the Islamic Scriptures and scholars tell us that there is to be brought forth out of the earth an actual Beast that marks the heads of believers and unbelievers! “And when the word is fulfilled concerning them, We [Allah] shall bring forth a beast of the earth to speak unto them because mankind had not faith in Our revelations.” - Qur’an 27.82 (Pickthall translation) “The task of the Beast will be to distinguish the believers from the non-believers, with Prophet Moses’ staff it will draw a line on the forehead of every believer whereby his face will become bright and luminous and with the ring of Solomon it will seal the nose of every non-believer where by his whole face will become black. Thus there will be complete distinction between the Muslim and non-Muslim…” – Abu Huraira-Musnad Ahmad/Tirmidhi, by Shaykh Ahmad Ali in his Major Signs Before the Day of Judgment. Similar Hadith narrated by Ibn Majah in Kitab al-Fitan, Hadith 4061, 2 – 1351, 1352 and Ahmad, Musnad, 2 – 295. What’s even more fascinating is that this Beast has a similar description to that in the Bible!: “[The] Beast is some form of ultra-conglomerate of many different animals.” – Tadhkirah al-Huffaz by al-Dhahabi. Of course, other details of the Islamic scenario are seemingly mythical and strange, but the core crux of the end-time belief as well as Islamic history matches Biblical prophecy in an eerie and unique way. The Seventh Head The Islamic Empire (Born in 622) of the Ottoman Dynasty Succeeded the Roman Empire (1453) The Mortal Wound of the Seventh Head by the Sword of Global War World War I (1914-1918) Strikes a Final Blow to the Ottoman Empire which Culminates in the Abolition of the Caliphate (1924) The Wound Healed The Rise of the Islamic State Caliphate (2014) The Appearance of the Antichrist “Beast” and the False Prophet Jesus Imposing Worship of the Beast The Coming of the Mahdi and Isa (Islamic Jesus) who will Impose Islamic Worship on the Whole World The Bringing to Life of the Image of the Beast that Marks Followers of the Beast Distinguishing them from True-God Believers The Bringing Forth of a Conglomerate-Animal Beast that Marks Muslim Believers, marking a Distinction between Muslim and Non-Muslim There is nothing match like this in any other religion. Why reject it? Something to think about. God bless

Hch, I’m still puzzled why you still want to pursue this line of reasoning with regards to 1798. I thought you said you read my post on it. The traditional Adventist 1260-theory is simply a myth. How is this so? As I explained earlier, 1798 saw not the downfall of the papacy but the resurgence of the papacy, as the late scholar of Andrews University and Professor of Church History, Samuele Bacchiocchi, even has to agree with: “The death of Pius VI [1798] can hardly be seen as the "abolishment" or "the downfall of the Papacy." It was simply a temporary humiliation of the prestige of the Papacy. In fact, Pius VI was able to give directives for the election of his successor. Few months after his death, the Cardinals met in Venice on December 8, 1799, and elected Barnaba Chiaramonti, who took the name of Pius VII, in deference to his predecessor. The new Pope was able to negotiate with Napoleon the Concordat in 1801 and the Organic Articles in 1802. These treatises restored to the Pope some of the territories of the States of the Church and regulated the extent of the Papal authority in France. The following years marked, not the downfall, but the resurgence of papal authority…” - Samuele Bacchiocchi, End-Times Issues Newsletter, No. 87, A Reply To Criticism: Part I “The Use of E. G. White’s Writing in Interpreting Scripture”, (1 August 2002), http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/eti_87.html. Bacciocchi says this because it is actually in line with actual history. If you would but simply read the following link to an entry in the Encyclopedia Britannica (most of which I could not quote because it is extensive, but which in your own time you can open the link and read) you would see this. Pope Pius VI’s successor, Pius VII, became defiant of Napoleon, ultimately helping defeat Napoleon, and eventually led (1) a resurgence in Papal popularity, (2) in the aggrandisement of Papal State territory, and even, unwittingly, (3) Papal authoritarianism. In other words, he restores Papal political power: “The Emperor’s [Napoleon] bullying of Pius [VII] aroused a far-reaching sympathy and respect for the Pope, especially among northern Catholics, who helped align Pius with the allies who eventually defeated Napoleon. In June 1812 Napoleon transferred Pius to Fontainebleau, where he forced the Pope to sign a humiliating concordat on Jan. 25, 1813, which Pius renounced two months later. Released in 1814, Pius was greatly acclaimed en route to Rome. The Congress of Vienna (1814–15) restored nearly all the Papal States, including Rome to Pius, who then sought to reestablish the church on traditional foundations… Ecclesiastically, Pius revived the Society of Jesus (1814) and encouraged the religious orders to reorganize themselves… In the tradition of the humanist popes, he sponsored educational reform and the establishment of Rome as a cultural centre. Despite his efforts to adapt the papacy to the political, intellectual, and social conditions of the modern world, the reinstatement of authoritarianism in the Papal States was inevitable, and a “government by priests” followed his death and the dismissal of Consalvi.” – Encyclopaedia Britannica, “Pius VII,” http://www.britannica.com/biography/Pius-VII. There is no hope for this myth. It is sorely passed its sell-by-date. No longer do we have to buy from Adventist tele-evangelist door-to-door salesman selling snake oil. We are now in the digital age where by the simple click of a button we can access information that tells us whether the product is truly authentic or is a fake. And you should too. Stop living in a by-gone era of falsehood and lies fed by Adventist leadership for the past century and a half, and start living in an age of truth, where information is more easily accessed now than any other period in history. We are privileged in this way more than any other generation. By throwing this privilege away in favour of upholding the status quo is quite simply foolish. I say to you, don’t do it. You can have something better. God is a wonderful God of Truth and Wisdom willing to open the eyes and hearts of those who wish it. I encourage you to wish it. It will change your life. God bless