Leaderboard

There- fixed! Tom will be so proud!

We are admonished, “Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall.” 1 Corinthians 10:12. Our only safety is in constant distrust of self, and dependence on Christ. [Ellen White]

...and you never will. I haven't, either. Scripture clearly tells us that none of us ever will meet that standard. That's why we need a Savior. Nonetheless, we are also told that being like Christ should be our ultimate vision. In another post, you said you wouldn't trust anyone - not even yourself. How sad! Trust is a big part of loving others. Jesus trusts His people here on earth enough to entrust the salvation of humans to us (under HIs guidance, of course). If He trusts us, shouldn't we trust each other - at least until that trust is broken with malice and forethought?

Now JoeMo, you know that we Seventh-day Adventists do not believe that Mrs. White is infallible because the perfect pen of inspiration wrote that she is not infallible and commands us not to see her as infallible, it's just that she never made any mistakes. Actually while I can live with what you described as being able to live with about the Catholics. But sadly there are indeed Catholics and other Eastern Orthodoxs who do believe that Mary was the sinless virgin until she died. Sadly there was an argument between an Eastern Orthodox and a Protestant who I respect on this question where while the Protestant gave excellent Biblical and historical answers, the Eastern Orthodox person could not see what the difference was between the Protestant's use of history and just turning to the Church Fathers for guidance. And in response the Protestant sadly presented the truth in a way that was very antagonistic, unkind and argumentative. Giving the truth but in a very bad spirit. This is also what bother's me about the mass mailing of the Great Controversy. I love that book. But she tells us that she found it difficult to balance between sharing our concerns about the Papacy and not being anti-Catholic. And she was even worried about that in a world that was more open to the Catholic Criticisms. Her frustrations about balancing between the two would be even more noted in today's world. (I would not mind the White Estate doing a version of the Great Controversy which also includes an additional forward of passages where Mrs. White expressed this concern she had of the book.) and again fear that those who are mass-mailing these books are sharing the right truth but given in an unkind spirit.

Please, be kind to my cousins.

I do not want to suggest that I know the answers to what Gov't should do, that will take a miracle to solve, I do know what I need to do in my neighbourhood and community.

For me, I felt exactly the same way until I found the truth of temperaments. For me understanding that helped me to understand that just because my entire family sees me as faulty and worthless because I was born different in temperament I am still valuable in the eyes of God. I may never feel as if I'm a part of any family here on earth, but I know God accepts me and cares for me. That means I'm a part of something more wonderful than any earthly group. You're a part of that too if you've accepted Christ and made Him first in your life. People will always let you down. God never will. So, I guess what I'm saying is don't worry about feeling like you don't fit in if you are accepted by God. That is worth far more than any acceptance from human beings, and more than makes up for being rejected by humans.

I call it a command.

Wow! I didn't realize Jesus was Filipino!

Ellen White: "In regard to infallibility, I NEVER claimed it; God ALONE is Infallible." [SM1 pp 415 and 37] Papal infallibility: "A dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error "When, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church." "Catholic theologians agree that both Pope Pius IX's 1854 definition of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary and Pope Pius XII's 1950 definition of the dogma of the Assumption of Mary are instances of papal infallibility, a fact confirmed by the Church's magisterium." 1] The immaculate conception of Mary teaches that Mary was born sinless, i.e., without sin. 2] The assumption of Mary states that she entered heaven upon her death.

See: http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/april/darrin-patrick-removed-acts-29-megachurch-journey.html?utm_source=ctweekly-html&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_term=16245031&utm_content=430230684&utm_campaign=email The above URL takes you to a short article that discusses the removal of Darrin Patrick that lead pastor of a mega-church., for reasons that did NOT involve adultery. That article also provides a link to an extensive letter which was sent to congregational members setting forth the details as to why Patrick was removed and what was being set in place to provide him and his family with support and healing. Attached to this letter is a very short response from Patrick. Some will probably ask: Why make all of this public? Why should we dwell in the details? Both are valid questions. My response is: 1) There is a time when public sin must be rebuked publicly. Christian leaders do not serve the Church well when they appear to cover things up. 2) In one sense we may not need to dwell in the details. However, a failure to list such often leads to speculation that goes far beyond the actual facts. 3) Public sin may require a public confession. 4) A higher standard may require not only that one face the consequences of their sin, but that one be given the help and support in reform. 5) As in this case, the consequences of one's sin may affect others, such ad family members. They may need support as is being provided. NOTE: Perhaps (?) there times when the SDA Church (and other parachurch organizations) would have been better served if it had done as has been done in this case.

I completely and totally DISAGREE that any of these sins be made public and/or require public confession. Worst idea ever. IMO

I am so sorry for your suffering Please don't blame yourself; this earthly life is painful.

That's not true. The reform rabbi in training I asked about this didn't know the answer. And the ultra-Orthodox leader certainly came across as if he didn't know either. Then if Jews in general know the chronology is fraudulent, as you claim, then you're making the lie out to be worse yet, because you are saying that they are purposely postponing the Messianic Era by 160+ years. That correlates with I think what Ben Zion Wachholder proposed, that Jewish leaders purposely calculated the 70 weeks in a way that would postpone the expectation of the arrival of the Messiah, only to have that proposed altered date coincide with Bar Kokba's revolt. Pardon me if I'm not remembering his paper correctly. Unless I'm misunderstanding you. But if 5776 is counting back from the future, and they are knowingly postponing the future by 160+ years, that's how I understand your comment. Regardless of the date one uses for creation, 5776 AM is still based on a misinterpretation of the 70 weeks, which misinterpretation resulted in introducing an error of 160+ years, and which led the Talmud to suggest that Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes in Ezra 6:14 were three names for the same person. It's high time that this glaring error be corrected. I think this is incorrect. It would be rare that a Christian would think that Messiah the prince is the antichrist. Those who see the antichrist in vs. 27 see the antichrist referred to as the prince in the phrase "people of the prince that shall come," not in the phrase "Messiah the prince." I think that position is wrong, but that's the typical futurist position.

Mere assertions. Nothing whatsoever to back up what you're saying. "Let us make man." And what is the Hebrew word for "man" in that verse in Gen. 1? Adam. Most knowledgeable Jews are thoroughly aware of this fact. And they are also knowledgeable of the fact that the 4th commandment says that God made everything on earth in those 6 days of creation. So how long ago do the Jews Steve Wohlberg and Clifford Goldstein think the earth was created, if not 6000 years ago? The Bible's chronology doesn't leave much wiggle room. There's some, but not much. Again, mere assertions. They received their physical bodies when they were created. There is no hint in Gen. 3 that they became "naked spirits." From a biblical standpoint, we can't have animal sacrifice or death before Gen. 3, much less human sacrifice. I raised the point of there not being death before Adam and Eve sinned, and you presented no text in response.

Yet Jn. 5:29 speaks of two resurrections, one of life and one of damnation, and 1 Th. 4 puts the resurrection of life at the second coming. Rev. 20 then puts the resurrection of damnation 1000 years after the resurrection of the blessed and holy. Yet Daniel uses the gender for the plural "weeks" that indicates an indivisible unity, thus ruling out a gap in time between the 69th and 70th week. This is important for a futurist to consider, even if it isn't important to you.

That goes not just for SDA's; but for all believers. It's time to unite and battle the world instead of each other.

And to chime in... Our Church Our Church Our Church Press together Press together Press together

Gerry I don't believe she's saying what you think she's saying! But I could be wrong? As far as those concentration camps are concerned, my father never was in them, he was in a few others. Before he died a number of years ago he forgave the germans/nazi's who had a part in abusing him.

The loving thing to do may be to call the police. At one point, a relative of mine kicked her son out of her home. As a result, he lived down the street under a bridge. It was part of what he needed. He and I talk. He is a respected author, photographer and employed by a State government. Yes, at one time he was scheduled to go on trial for attempted murder. NOTE: The felony charge was dropped. He was charged with a misdeamoner (sp), pled guilty and sentenced to time served while waiting for trial. NOTE: While paralyzed and sitting in a wheel chair some thugs attempted to steal his wheel chair, which had happened before. He had a knife which they were not aware of. Love may cause people to face the consequences of their actions. This may include the police.

Then why does scripture call Him the Messiah so many times? See Matt. 1:1, 16, 17, 17; 11:12; 16:20; 22:40-42; "When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” 14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. (Matt:16:13-16) And that is just in Matthew. There are over 60 other NT verses that refer to Jesus an the Messiah. Is the NT wrong? Did Jesus lie when He admitted to being the Messiah or Son of God? Did God the Father lie when He revealed that Jesus was the Messiah to Peter? Or was the Father simply mistaken? Or is the word "Messiah" just mistranslated from the Greek over 70 times in the NT?

We can't, but God can...

See: http://www.adventistreview.org/1604-30 This is the story of the son of a devout Communist who was trained in The Soviet Union to be a physician and later converted to the SDA faith. It is of interest that the publications of Lee Strobel and Ravi Zacharias played a major role in his conversion to faith in God. Yet, both Strobel and Zacharias are not Seventh-day Adventists! For that reason, some among our denomination would disdain them. God has his people outside of the SDA denomination.

I'm what they call mixed dominant --left handed in some activities and right handed in others. But not ambidextrous. Not able to do the same things with both hands equally or even well in most cases. Growing up, this made my dyslexia (already severe) even more difficult. The experts said I'd never be able to take care of myself or live on my own. They gave up trying to teach me reading and writing, and so I taught myself. All by myself. With nothing more than an old dictionary and manual typewriter. To college level in less than six months, in multiple languages, by the age of sixteen.

I will begin: My signature (Is. 32:17) describes the rest that I found having come out of the secular world. I remember the lost feeling, of not belonging anywhere. The Holy Spirit led me to a family of loving Christians and the Bible. In the Bible I found guidance which gave me a foundation to base my life on. The fellowship of loving believers cemented the idea of an attractive God. Since then, what has impressed me about our Heavenly Father is that He guides me with patience and faithfulness. He has never let me down- ever.

I basically agree with this; although I'm not going to comment much on this thread. I've exhausted my comments on several other threads attempting to deal with this and related topics. Many, MANY theologians have attempted to deal with the order of events (including rapture, timing of seals, trumpets, plagues, etc., 2nd coming, plagues, who is the beast, who is the antichrist, etc.) It seems like no progress has been made except for the proponents of each "theory" trying to bolster their "pet" theories and denigrate those of others. For example, I basically agree with Samie's thesis here; but I'm sure if we dug deeply enough we would find areas of disagreement. It's the way we do things. If I can, I'm going to participate in the "harmless banter" categories for a while and lay off of the heavy and contentious debates about 7 heads, who the beast is, Historicism vs. Preterism vs. Futurism, Islam vs. Papacy etc. My brain hurts. We'll see how long that lasts.

Not if we be nice to them because we are nice to all human beings and we believe gay human beings are human beings, and if we be nice because we are nice in our own characters, not in order to gain some extrinsic reward. "Better be good for goodness sake" as the old line goes...

As with Sunday laws and the Mark of the Beast. We need to study what Mrs. White says and what she DOESN"T say. We have built a whole tradition as to how exactly it is to work out. Probably designed by the same demons who designed the whole Jewish tradition of exactly what was to happen with the Messiah came. Mrs. White sees a LARGER issue where Sabbath and Sunday are just an example of. The issue she is concerned with is liberty of conscience. Sunday laws were a way of telling some people that they are not allowed to follow the Bible according to the dictates of their conscience. I know it's hard to conceive with what happened in San Antonio last summer, but our pioneers were people who were thrown out of their beloved churches for being free thinkers. They agreed on a few landmarks, but they wanted to design a church that was not going to throw them out for not submitting to group think. As long as they were not fanatical and that there was indeed Biblical evidence that can stand the test of study, that they were free to hold different views on the non-landmarks. Mrs. White also says that the Sabbath-Sunday issue is going to play a role in the CHRISTIAN (i.e. Western) world and indicates that she sees other tests for other cultures and situations. Under the 7th head everyone would have to give up some principle of conscience for the good of the group. Sadly our tradition does not deal with this. I've heard a number of sermons on 3ABN Radio where the difference between keeping Sabbath and Sunday are that we have a higher court enforcing Sabbath laws. We have a tendency to use the same spirit of Sunday laws with the Sabbath and that the issue is who has the more important court, earthly nations or God. As long as we appeal to our tradition and this spirit we will not be preaching the Sabbath more fully.

LHC, why are you trying to provoke an argument with me? Why are you stating what you *think* I'm "satisfied" with, when I bluntly stated that the video had nothing to do with the topic? The men in the video were behaving like a couple of immature boys at school recess. Perhaps every so often along a road there should be a wooden post placed off to side where men can get out of their vehicles, go unzip their pants, and mark their territory.

Comparing your self to EGW? You obviously missed the point of her instructions. You tried at several levels, it was found wanting so you come back as say you weren't given a chance. You then castigate them for not agreeing with you. No, you have not followed the process EGW laid out but try to compare your self to her. I could go on with more info from EGW about pushing 'new light' where she was more strong about the individuals not accepting the advice given them. But, based on your comments I don't see that as accomplishing anything. Good day

No one will be saved without works, Robert. If works were not necessary, nor involved at all in the process, why would there be 1) books of record of them in Heaven (Eze. 29:16; Mal. 3:16), 2) a judgment in which we are weighed in balances (Dan. 5:27; Rev. 6:5), and 3) rewards according to our works (Rev. 22:12)? Jesus' gift saves us, but it is our love and obedience to Him that makes us eligible to receive the gift. Works of obedience done of a pure desire to love and obey God are what put the "wedding garment" upon us that is required to attend that banquet in Heaven. As Jesus' parable indicates, HE doesn't put that garment on each guest--the guest must do this for himself. God does His part and we do ours. Without BOTH we cannot be saved.

Calmly calling bullying by its right name is not what *I* would call 'vitriolic', but perhaps it's a subjective judgement. I did leave the discussion with Kevin. I didn't mean I'd be leaving this forum I've been posting on for about 12 years... sorry to disappoint if that's how you read that.

what about them? The prisoners had no options for amelioration of the abuse they suffered.

Life, you have raised an important point: Yes, Christ said to forgive. But, look at what Christ did not say. Christ did not say to release someone from the consequences. As a matter of fact, throughout the Bible there is a central theme that people face consequences. One can forgive the abuser and still prosecute and send thatperson to prison. Certainly, the Christian may chose in some cases not to prosecute. But, that is an individual choice and not a requirement. Let me illustrate: A church treasurer may steal church funds. One consequence is that the treasurer should never again handle church funds. Another consequence might be to send that person to prison. There is no Christian requirement to do otherwise.

They were just here, like last month. I am not sure if she was already having strokes, but then there was the announcement of her illness and a couple weeks later she was gone. SO SAD!!! They were supposed to return later this month, so I have the feeling that all was sudden. I thank God for His promises and for her faith. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

The terms of the "old covenant" (i.e., the written code) were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Eze. 20: 11; Lev. 18: 5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them" (Deut. 27: 26). The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises"-- the promise of forgiveness of sins and of the grace of God to renew the heart and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law.

FEMSTER thank you for up date----i am still praying for you dgrimm60