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Reports are in about a transgendered person is the Elder at Hollywood SDA Church. Before other comments, I would like to say my heart and prayers go out to this person, and the family involved. I worked with about 20 transgendered people in the late 1970's 10 years later not one of them was alive as reported to me. ALSO Johns Hopkin Medical Centre as reportedly stop doing the surgical procedures, as they had an 80% fail rate. Very few people I know have had more of a painful lonely life than the transgendered I have met.

LadyRachelLynn and Green Cochoa, what you are saying is right but it is NOT an argument against what I am pointing out. Green you keep pointing out correctly the uniform worn by priests as they are on duty ministering in the Sanctuary and Temple (and maybe tent of the meeting). The item of clothing that God through Moses commanded all the people to wear in their every day life was a little reminder that the priesthood was larger than those serving in the sanctuary/temple and tent of the meeting. That they were to think about God's law and that they were a kingdom of priests. The Role of the Hebrews was to be in a piece of land where Europe, Africa, Asia and the desert world all met. The major intersection of the great trade routes of the world. This had a missionary purpose. As the caravans from all over the world would pass through cities in different parts of the world they would see a few people who would wear the same tassels that we find Moses commanding every Hebrew to wear. As the people in the caravans saw people here and there all over the world wearing the tassels they knew that those people were ordained priests, sort of similar to if you find people wearing a tee shirt with a military unit's mark on it and you know that even though they are not in full uniform that the clothes they wear indicate that they either are in the military or were in the military. You can get a handout as to what these soldiers need to wear when on duty and not find these articles of clothing. LadyRachellLynn, yes, among the Hebrews Moses commanded EVERYONE to wear this item. Yes, when the caravans came through Judah/Israel they would see everyone wearing that tassel. But when they were in other countries they would not see everyone wearing the tassel, they would only see people who were ordained priests wearing it on their clothing. Yes Green Cochoa, the priests serving in the sanctuary/temple/tent of meeting were in full uniform when serving on duty and did not need this small token article of clothing identifying in the off duty clothing that they are still priests. This tassel was a reminder to all the Hebrews that the priesthood was larger than the decedents of Aaron serving in the sanctuary/temple or the decedents of Moses serving in the tent of meeting. But that they were to be a kingdom of priests. And a sign to the merchants from all over the world traveling in their caravans that if they have spiritual needs that they can approach anyone in Judah and Israel. My point is that the Rabbis living 200 years before Jesus knew what that tassel meant. And as they started a movement to have the Jews STOP having women priests and rabbis, they did not want women to wear that article of clothing that identified them as a priest in a kingdom of priests. They said that while every son of Israel could wear that tassel but NO women. Thus they substituted a tradition of man for the law of God. God said for everyone man and women to wear this. They said "Only men can be priests or rabbis so only men can wear this and the women need to stop wearing it."

It is my understanding that the direction to wear the tassel, also known as tzitzits, was given to everyone, NOT exclusively to the the ordained priests. Numbers 15:38-40 New King James Version (NKJV) 38 “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. 39 And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined, 40 and that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your God." Numbers 15:38-40 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) 38 “Speak to the people of Isra’el, instructing them to make, through all their generations, tzitziyot on the corners of their garments, and to put with the tzitzit on each corner a blue thread. 39 It is to be a tzitzit for you to look at and thereby remember all of Adonai’s mitzvot and obey them, so that you won’t go around wherever your own heart and eyes lead you to prostitute yourselves; 40 but it will help you remember and obey all my mitzvot and be holy for your God."

I believe that Aurbrey referenced and interesting article. She crossed it out. I have removed that and I am posting it without that crossout for you to reference if you wish. http://futurism.com/scientists-bred-male-mice-no-y-chromosomes-can-still-reproduce/

Rossw: The typical person if commonly thought to have either a XX or a XY chromosome configuration. As a matter of fact, some people do not have that configuration. Further, some people have both a XX and a XY configuration. When this happens, different organs in the body may differ. E.G. Some organs may have a XX configuration while other organs have and XY configuration. This fact is well known in criminal law and forensic science. I have posted on this in the past and in that post I provided sources for people to go to learn about it. So, if you want to know more, go back to those sources. Earlier you said, below: The bottom line, Rossw, the actual fact is that some people do not have a genetic configuration that is a match to their genital configuration. Further, the internal genital configuration may not match their external genital configuration.

Hre's an interesting read on XX,XY,ZZ, and ZW and so on...http://futurism.com/scientists-bred-male-mice-no-y-chromosomes-can-still-reproducee/ Nevermind. This really isn't the place for that. Sorry.

That's a good one...

@Robert I hope you get a chance to see some fireworks while you're waitin'!

He speaks first in chapter 4 of the body of elders, presbyterion. In chapter 5 he is only using presbyteros, which includes a connotation of senior or older by comparison, it is very frequently used throughout the NT, as here, in the context of speaking of a body of ruling elders. Paul does not here use the related term, presbus, that means only old, or aged. (Compare his counsel to Titus where he does use that term.)

Rossw: What do you say about the people born with both sets of genitals? If the X Y issue can be complicated enough to produce both sets of genitals could there not be lesser complications from these that may not be as obvious to us?

@Green Cochoa regarding the female elders at Ephesus... Here is the quick "show me" you asked for. The Greek word translated as "presbytery" in the KJV, or in other words, "body/counsel of elders", is presbyterion. The related word referring to an individual member of the presbyterian is presbyteros, or elder. Continuing on to 1 Timothy 5:1-2, Paul is still talking about that body of elders (Remember no chapter or verse breaks in the original letter.) and how Timothy should relate to and work with them. In 5:1-2 Paul tells Timothy to treat the elders as he would his father (v.1) and as his mother (v.2). Both verses use the word presbyteros in reference to the senior male and female members of the body of elders. Since it would have also included younger members as well, Timothy was counseled to treat those younger ones as his brothers and sisters. He then speaks of those that are widows and their special role and notice in vs 17-19 Paul is still talking about the elders.

Today Lionsgate released the official poster for Mel Gibson's latest film, "Hacksaw Ridge" the story World War II war story of Seventh-day Adventist conscientious objector Desmond Doss who won the Congressional Medal of Honor for moving 75 troops in Okinawa to safety while under heavy fire. The poster, which features the tagline, "When the order came to retreat, one man […] The post Lionsgate releases first official "Hacksaw Ridge" poster appeared first on ReligiousLiberty.TV - Celebrating Liberty of Conscience. View the full article

I think it's possible to become transgendered without having the reassignment surgery. In other words, some trans people just change their lifestyles and clothing without physically changing. I can't believe that becoming a trans person without surgery would cause anyone to die. [Are you saying, Stan, that merely assuming the changed lifestyle causes people to die? Or was it that the surgical procedures were so severe that people died from the surgeries?] Of course, the whole lifestyle would be painful, if one had to live constantly dressed is clothing of one's opposite gender. The stressful life would be overpowering, no doubt. This Hollywood church elder certainly tells a strong experience, and tells it very tastefully. She is enjoying a good Christian experience nowadays, there by teaching a S.S. class, and by serving others in her duties as an elder.

Green, if you continue reading a few more verses you will find Paul's continuing counsel to Timothy on how he as a new young pastor should relate to and work with that body of elders (presbytery) that had just appointed him with the laying on of hands. The original Greek confirms that there were both male and female elders in that body of elders that appointed Timothy. Paul also regarded Phoebe as a leader (prostatis) and minister (diakonos) of the NT Church and Junia (a woman) as being among the apostles. It should not be dismissed lightly that he also said that in the body of Christ, the Church, there should be neither male nor female, any more than there should be any other distinctions of class or status such as Jew or Greek, slave or free. There are really no church roles, functions, or positions described in the NT that do not specifically include women. Women are not expressly excluded from any. There are specific examples of females described as disciples, deacons (ministers), apostles, fellow laborers in the gospel ministry, elders, and leaders.

was 1 Timothy 4:12-16 not written for all believers? If not, perhaps there should be a Bible wherein the texts for women to read could be separated out from those strictly for men....

Even Jesus at times answered a question with a question--maybe an "off-topic" one. Would you accuse Him of "classic avoidance of answering questions"? Please do not accuse me of avoiding your question when I took some of my valuable time to answer it in a way that I felt would best communicate the thoughts I attempted to express. Communication, as Jesus' example shows, can sometimes best come in the form of a question, an example, an allegory, or a parable. One need not always expect a direct spoon-feeding, as sometimes it helps the listener to comprehend if another method is employed. As a disciple of Christ, I am trying to learn of Him. Wherein I may have failed, please forgive me.

(I fibbed...re:thats all)...... We aint talking about the sabbath...Classic avoidance of answering questions, straight out of the 'when all else fails' book...redirect, redirect!!! Oh, and that fits most of all the answers to Kevin H also. (...locking my mouth such....)

If that book, to which I have no access, claims to give answers from the Bible, why not simply give me the Bible's "thus saith the LORD" directly?

If some say that God has told them He changed the day of worship to Sunday, would you walk up and tell them it wasn't true? Whether or not one chooses to rebuke someone for his or her errors, the truth is still unchanged. When we take our doctrines from the Bible, including that of "the laying on of hands," we have no need to change them just because someone says they should be changed. This is precisely the reason we are told we must demand a plain "thus saith the LORD." Human judgment is not to be trusted. We need a divine standard--and the Bible gives us this.

But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms. The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority--not one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain "Thus saith the Lord" in its support. {GC 595.1} . . . Thus the message of the third angel will be proclaimed. As the time comes for it to be given with greatest power, the Lord will work through humble instruments, leading the minds of those who consecrate themselves to His service. The laborers will be qualified rather by the unction of His Spirit than by the training of literary institutions. Men of faith and prayer will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God gives them. The sins of Babylon will be laid open. The fearful results of enforcing the observances of the church by civil authority, the inroads of spiritualism, the stealthy but rapid progress of the papal power--all will be unmasked. By these solemn warnings the people will be stirred. Thousands upon thousands will listen who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from heaven. As the people go to their former teachers with the eager inquiry, Are these things so? the ministers present fables, prophesy smooth things, to soothe their fears and quiet the awakened conscience. But since many refuse to be satisfied with the mere authority of men and demand a plain "Thus saith the Lord," the popular ministry, like the Pharisees of old, filled with anger as their authority is questioned, will denounce the message as of Satan and stir up the sin-loving multitudes to revile and persecute those who proclaim it. {GC 606.2} I want a "thus saith the LORD" for matters of doctrine or church teaching (precept). Mrs. White tells me I should demand such for these things. And is this matter such an issue? I would point you to the Bible, our standard: "Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." (1 Timothy 4:12-16) "Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment." (Hebrews 6:2)

Then He would have created robots....

Isn't that nice? I'm not here for strife and debate. I'm here to speak the truth to some who might otherwise not be exposed to its influence. As the Bible puts it, "he that hath an ear, let him hear."

Here's the link. https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children