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Yes, move on. But with a gentle caveat. You should not presume that you have the right to respond in kind to what might be an inappropriate comment. You do so at the risk of escalating a bad thing to the point that two or more people get sideways with the expected decorum. Administrative tip of the day - assume the best of fellow participants. Mistaken assumptions about motive, attitude, or intent about another reflects back on you. Err on the side of kindness and grace.

It's all good from my viewpoint. Hope we can move on?!

Honour thy father and Mother...... this is what poses some dilemmas for me. Some of my happiest memories are obviously with my parents, of a Methodist background HOWEVER my father is/was a Freemason. However, just before or after my birthday almost 4 years ago ( its later this month) I came to the sudden realisation that my parents had been mentally and pyschologically abusing me- right up until the day i cut them off. there was smacking etc, but no real phsyical beating. Mum did slap me across the face once when i was 14 ( i think- it could hve been later), i slapped her back as a defence mechanism- she never touched or raised her hand to me again. They were instrumental in encouraging my now 24 year old daughter to leave us a number of years ago, and not communicate with us, and accuse my husband of some very nasty things (her stepdad). I have suffered from mental health issues all my life. i sufffered with tonsilitis every 6 weeks form the age of 4 to the age of 18 when i could arrange for them to be taken out- yet my mother kept agreeing with the dcotr on just antibiotics- and no painkillers- saying the antibiotics would take my pain away. I was told by my dad that every child after the 1st one was a mistake- and i was the 3rd. He told me that my first daghter- who has aspergers, and is type 1 diabetic, and was taken from me at age 11 ( very long story), was a complete and total losss and i shouldnt have anything to do with her. But if you asked him to his face he would deny this. I went ot Melbourne with ehr to see a Tutankhamun exhibit- as we are both Egypt fans- nd he had the opprotunity to speak to her on the phone- and he owuldnt do it..... How am I supposed to Honour them when all of this has happened ot me- they knew full well what they were doing...yet would put on a fake face to everyone. Never agreed with anything i did. Or beng mortagge free and owning our farm when i was 40 - something they said i would never do and beat my sister who is married to a doctor in doing. Having a very hard time forgiving them for this. I know i should so it releases ME from them and then they no longer have power and control over me.... How do you apply this commandment in this situation????

Pam, I thought that you raised a point that had value.

Pharaoh gradually gained CONTROL over Egypt (and the Israelites). He had all the FOOD. The people paid money, then sold their goods, then sold their land, then sold themselves - in order to stay alive. Dependence upon government is the MEANS whereby the government gains CONTROL. Universal healthcare is just one such means. All plans which end in government dependence - give CONTROL to the government.

That's it!! C. Failure to Launch Failure to Launch failed to nab an Oscar nom for hottie Bradley Cooper. Source: various web sites.

Good grief. I merely posted what the Methodist ceremony of the time entailed because I thought it was interesting — and I thought it remarkable that Ellen White was allowed to perform part of that ceremony, as a non-Methodist. It's not me who is making an issue of this. Give it a rest, why don't you... addendum: I'm done trying to be informative. Done. That's it. Those who want to poke me with their verbal tridents can do so. Go for it.

I strongly support GC's advice here - not only for Fem, but for all Western believers who wonder how God can bring healing to those suffering religious, social, or family persecution. The Spirit of God is indeed alive and continually reaching out to His disenfranchised children.

Femster, I would strongly encourage you to visit the More Than Dreams website, which shares some amazing stories of how Muslims became Christians. Lest you assume this has nothing to do with your situation, consider what Muslims who become Christians must face from their families in terms of abuse. The website has five wonderful stories, all told in video form (you'll have to download them), and two of them deal with forgiveness. These videos are truly precious--you will love them I am sure. The two that touch on forgiveness are the one with Dini (the woman), and the one about Mohamed. All five of the stories are worth watching, but I believe those two will touch your heart most. http://morethandreams.org (Note: The videos were made especially to reach out to Muslims, so you will need to read the English subtitles.) Blessings.

You have provided me some mirth today, thank you! Minimize? Ha! I think I would like rather to maximize it to say that this custom of parental blessing should be instated in all Adventist weddings, as is customary in Asia already! I think the minimizing is coming from others! Really, Tom, do you think Mother Ellen should have turned a deaf ear on her own son's request just because such a thing was not customary or because she was not ordained? Does the act suddenly elevate her to "ordained" status? No one is "minimizing" so much as that people are "wresting" the meaning they wish to extract from it. Take it to mean whatever you want. As for me, I will continue to base my doctrines on a plain "thus saith the LORD."

There was no Seventh-day Adventist minister in that area qualified according to the laws of Tasmania. All went off well. The rooms in the Lacey home were nicely decorated with ferns and flowers. There were ten members of the family present, and eleven friends of the bride who were invited guests. As they were in a British country, they were married with the wedding ring. 4BIO 195.6 ---------- Ellen White was not qualified to perform the wedding and only clergy were only allowed to perform the blessing yet Mrs. White is all of a sudden qualified? The logic isn't adding up.

I don't know how else to explain the significance of Mrs. White participating in a Methodist marriage ceremony. Sorry that it seems to be as clear as mud to you.

GC, your comment baffles me. All I did was provide the official outline of the Methodist matrimonial ceremony of the era, which was most likely the outline done for Willie White's marriage, and in which Mrs. White gave the marriage blessing.

Pam, Perhaps that is why we are Adventists and not Methodists. Of course, if you wish to follow that template (I seriously doubt it is an inalterable doctrine of the Methodist church), then I suppose you cannot pray the Lord's Prayer, since you are not a minister. I'm even less convinced than I was before--and would find this yet the greater evidence of pettiness. What ever happened to following the lady people claim to use as an example? She said plainly: There are many among professed Christians today who would decide that Daniel was too particular, and would pronounce him narrow and bigoted. They consider the matter of eating and drinking as of too little consequence to require such a decided stand--one involving the probable sacrifice of every earthly advantage. But those who reason thus will find in the day of judgment that they turned from God's express requirements and set up their own opinion as a standard of right and wrong. They will find that what seemed to them unimportant was not so regarded of God. His requirements should be sacredly obeyed. Those who accept and obey one of His precepts because it is convenient to do so, while they reject another because its observance would require a sacrifice, lower the standard of right and by their example lead others to lightly regard the holy law of God. "Thus saith the Lord" is to be our rule in all things. {SL 19.4} . . . "Thus saith the Lord," not the Methodist Church. Give me the Bible. Where is your "thus saith the LORD" for why a woman cannot pray in church?

In my humble opinion, that is a rock-solid fact. Many OT prophecies point to the establishment of Israel an a nation prior to the reign of the antichrist and the return of Jesus. Israel had not existed as an independent nation until 1948 since the the Babylonian exile. Even if you want to propose that Israel was somehow "restored" upon the return from Babylon, one could hardly call it "a gathering from all nations". God has a plan. When the Beast rules for his 1260 days and absolutely devastates Jerusalem - the chief city of God's Chosen people, we will definitely know the beast is in control. And what world relogious/political power is hell-bent (literally) on the obliteration of the nation of God's Chosen People? Radical Islam - including the most powerful sovereign power in the Middle-East - Iran. I also agree with Rachel that the 3 angels message is absolutely relevant or it wouldn't be in the Bible. It just may not be the message that traditional Adventism believes it to be; and that we have no right to isolate the RCC as the only candidate for the Beast power. Current day Islam increasingly shows itself to be way scarier than current day Catholics.

Evidently that's what Eve was convinced of also! God is Love!~Jesus saves!

it is actually very significant that Ellen White offered the prayer of blessing during the Methodist marriage ceremony... Only ordained ministers were to do that. Take a look at the marriage ceremony outline for the Methodist denomination during that era:

Correct D. The Boston Tea Party We cannot tell a lie - the Boston Tea Party occurred first in 1773, followed by Washington's election. Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, and women gained the right to vote in 1920 when the 19th Amendment was ratified. Source: various web sites.

Green, my argument was not the strongest argument that has been made on this issue. But, it was not the weakest. As I have said, it is of interest.

Green: How many times have you seen a non-clergy mother of the groom pray over her son at a wedding? I have never seen such happen. The context, as I see it is: They wanted to have a SDA wedding, but they could not and it had to be conducted by a Methodist minister. So, Ellen White solemnized the marriage by offering a prayer of blessing over the couple. I will admit that what I have said is not conclusive. People may be justified in disagreeing with me. But, the facts stand for what they are. These facts are of interest. Those facts do not cheapen ordination. For a clergy-person to offer a prayer of blessing at a wedding does not cheapen ordination. You can call this pettiness if you wish. I can list examples of pettiness from people on the other side.

Bob, I appreciate the math, but the Jewish religion was the largest God fearing denomination when Christ came to earth and the size of their congregations did not help them an iota. If the three angels messages are not understood correctly on the eve of Christ's Advent, will it help to get the would be saints ready for Heaven? or would it just make more misguided virgins that are ill-prepared for Heaven (more ready to miss the Bridegroom's coming than not)? The more I study the three angels messages, the more I fear that the brethren and sisters are unaware of their true meaning. Christian regards His child

I'm more apt to feel apprehensive about what the younger generation will be facing in the new and ongoing evolution of the world's societies inability to cope with one another' without concluding extermination, or at a minimum, subjugation is a solution to difficulties. God is Love!~Jesus saves!

He looks pretty healthy for a preemie. He'll be bouncing around there in no time, I predict.

Why would the messages of the three angels no longer be "relevant" today? Of course they are relevant! The BEAST has not yet come to rule the entire world. The "mark" is not yet required - worldwide. The "image of the Beast" does not yet stand "in the holy place" [The Temple Mount]. Maybe you are saying that the SDA version of these messages - identifying the Roman Catholic Church as "Little Horn"and the "mark of the Beast" as Sunday worship - maybe THAT teaching is "obsolete". That remains to be seen. We have not yet entered the very last days. The very last days will be the 1260 days during which the Little Horn will persecute "the saints" worldwide. The message of the angel is "The hour of His judgment has come". In Daniel 7:9-10, the heavenly "court" sits as the Beast is persecuting the saints on earth, through it's "little horn". The Little Horn will persecute the saints for 1260 days (42 months, 3.5 years) leading UP TO the "judgment" of the Court, in favor of the saints, and "THE TIME CAME FOR THE SAINTS TO POSSESS THE KINGDOM". The saints did not take possession of the kingdom in 1798 when Napoleon captured the Pope. They will take possession of the kingdom, when their KING takes possession. That will come at the 7th trumpet. When the 7th trumpet sounds, (Rev. 11:15) all heaven celebrates because "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ". Christ will then EXECUTE the judgment handed down by the "court". He will destroy the Beast and the False Prophet and all their followers. He will reward His saints. He will throw Satan into "the pit". Much as I disagree with Roman Catholic doctrine (basically baptized paganism.), I am not comfortable pointing to the RCC as THE "Little Horn" of Revelation. Not yet anyway. Islam has persecuted Christian believers every bit as severely as the RCC persecuted. A Temple of Islam now stands "in the holy place". The SDA pioneers believed "the hour of His judgment" HAD COME, because they believed that Jesus entered the MHP of Heaven on October 22, 1844. For the SDA pioneers repeating the messages of the 3 angels, was their MISSION and the reason for the existence of their movement. I personally believe they were WRONG. That message is not just obsolete - it was never truth. Mrs White wrote that she was "shown" what happened in Heaven on October 22, 1844. She "saw" Christ standing before the Ark, and wrote that this fulfilled the Day of Atonement prophecy. But she described Jesus dressed in the DAILY garb, with blue ephod, breastplate, miter, bells and pomegranates. This was the WRONG ATTIRE for the MHP on the Day of Atonement. The High Priest was to wear only 5 pieces of plain white linen, when entering the MHP on that day (Leviticus Cpt 16). She "saw" the WRONG clothing, because that was the only clothing she was aware of, for the High Priest. I did not start this thread, but I must say what I believe. Rachel Cory-Kuehl, prophecyviewpoint.com

The SDA Church, with quotes from Mrs White after 1896, turned "the Spirit of Christ" into "the third person of the Godhead". They do not realize they have set up another god. I took me 4 years of solid study before I was forced to concede that I too, had believed a lie. John heard every being saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever!" The FATHER sits on the throne, and the Lamb is JESUS. They are the ONLY TWO who are worshiped in Scripture. The spirit is not praised, thanked, worshiped, glorified, or prayed to - in Scripture. Here's a link to Part One of a series on this topic at my website: http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/44a-Part 1 TR-Intro.pdf My studies are 100% based in Scripture. I do not quote from EGW. I do not feel that we can site Mrs White to convince the undecided in the last days. This topic is relevant to the messages of the three angels, because one must know WHO "God" is. Blessings, Rachel Cory-Kuehl

Little children do very selfish, mean things. I don't think Jesus meant for adults to become LIKE that. Selfish, spoiled little children are NOT "in Christ". I believe Jesus MEANT that adults who know about God, should come to TRUST Him - as children are trusting of adults who care for them.

The attached photo is of Noah, my step-great grandson who is being held by my wife. It was taken yesterday, July 4, 2016. I am sorry about the orientation of the photo. It is upright on my computer. But, it rotated when it was copied to this post.

Please excuse Rossw & me, Pk. At first reading I thought there was perhaps a connection between the SDA CIA agents and the hash. Thanks for the clarification.

In my thinking, it is possible that the Lamb that speaks like a dragon is radical Islam - the religion of "peace". The two horns are radical Sunni (e.g., ISIS, Al Qaeda); and radical Shia (Iran). Two horns, same beast. Both seek world domination and the destruction of Israel at the expense of whomever gets in their way - Christian, Jew, or moderate Muslim. At their current growth rate, it is projected that within 10 years Islam will overtake Christianity as the world's dominant religion.