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What makes God real to me - not a simple question for me and I don't have a simple answer. But I know He is real. In my heart. In my mind. In my relationship with my children. In all my everyday experiences - I sense His presence. He communicates to me in ways that let me know it's Him - like when He told me that my son would return home and when I asked Him to reassure me that it was Him telling me that - He brought my son home that very weekend. Or when we needed $10,000 for the balance of my daughter's tuition to graduate from medical school and He impressed the mother of one of her friends to offer to pay it for us. Or the many other times He made the impossible a reality. I know that my experiences are not coincidences because for them to be coincidences a number of things would have had to happen simultaneously to produce the outcomes. But most of all. I agree with everyone else who state that nature (including humans) testify of God's existence - the heavens declare the glory of God ...

That story is definitely a "miracle" story. People can come up with any alternative story they want, but their alternative would be more coincidental than the miracle. About 5 years ago on Christmas Eve, my wife had been so sick she wanted to die. We went to bed and I laid hands on her and prayed for her healing until she was a sleep and breathing easy. I then prayed that God would give her a sign that He was with her and would heal her. The next morning (Christmas), she got up around dawn to let the dogs out to potty. Their was a bald eagle standing on our back porch, wings fully spread, looking in our window. When my wife opened the door, the eagle just backed off and watched her for a few minutes; then calmly walked off the porch into the back yard and flew away. My wife took that as the "sign" we were praying for. In the 18 yeard we have lived here, that was the only time we have seen a bald eagle; and he was on our porch looking in the window. We remembered the verses in Isaiah talking about mounting up on eagles' wings. Coincidence?

Glad I got it right. Now, due to my limited knowledge of math, I will rest on my victory and not post something else that might result in someone else telling me I was wrong.

We have covered this repeatedly already. Quite a few times actually. At least please go back and read the previous discussion you have been a part of since you joined us. Better still spend some serious quality time reading the many helpful discussions on WO that we have right here. But best move for you at this time would be to spend some serious quality time on the many resources in the pinned and locked topics at the top of the topic menu in this sub forum devoted to WO. Then let's talk. EGW was ordained. She herself said God had ordained her at the begining of her ministry. By the time the GC past the 1881 resolution and shortly thereafter began issuing her ordained minister credentials, pretty much everyone was very familiar with her calling and ministry. The early Church leaders were quite pragmatic and not prone to ritualistic religious practices. Since ordination is at its most fundamental level the official recognition by the Church of a person's gifts and calling, the issuance of credentials was sufficiently just that. The credential is self authenticating evidence to the facts it presents on its face. A ritualistic ceremony by men would have been unnecessarily redundant and superfluous.

You are misunderstanding or twisting what I said and missing the point. I did not say that on this issue that EGW gave corrective guidance to the very point in question. Very much to the contrary, there is really no evidence that she said or wrote anything to discourage women from full ministry, including preaching, teaching and pastoral ministry. Her own life and over 10,000 worth of sermons preached rather pointedly confirms her own position that a woman could and should be able to "stand in the sacred desk" and preach. There were historical accounts of her being opposed from doing so before she stood up to preach. Church leaders addressed the concerns raised, which included many of the same Biblical objections to women in ministry we keep hearing and seeing right here. After that, EGW got up and preached. And then there is her own acceptance of the ordained minister credentials, year after year for over 30 years, without a word of objection from her. The evidence is very much on the side of her support for women in ministry. If she was the messenger of the Lord as we believe, where is the clear and unequivocal word from her condemning any of the historical evidence of women fully participating in the preaching, teaching and pastoral ministry, and leadership within the Church during her lifetime? Crickets chirping...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyxUwaq00Rc

From Yahoo:

That "newsman" was obviously on Fox News.

The issue with the LAMPS of the bridesmaids is that they are ALL going out. What they had at the beginning of their journey to the wedding is that when they left their lamps had plenty of oil. This oil is what produces the 'light of truth'. The early Advent movement was FULL of light, because it was full of the oil of the Holy Spirit. But something happened on the way. Someone intercepted this group of bridesmaids and convinced them that THEY were the bride. (These bridesmaids are the Kingdom of Heaven at the time of the end.) This was done intentionally by a prophetess that usurped the role of end time prophecy as coming exclusively from Daniel and Revelation, to a very personal prophecy that either misinterpreted the original prophecies of the end, or embellished them beyond recognition. Soon the Bridesmaids came to rely on these 'alternate' prophecies even more that the original, and soon, even forgot about the originals all together. And THAT is why the lamps of these bridesmaids that thought THEY were the bride (but were not) were going out. This is why Jesus said: Rev 3:2 'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. Rev 3:3 'So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. The light of truth has died inside the end time Kingdom of Heaven, because the people of this kingdom have FORGOTTEN who they are, and what they were established by God to do, at the end of the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy in Dan. 8:14. God is calling them to REMEMBER what they HAD ALREADY received and heard. Keep it, and REPENT. Repent from what? From loosing sight of the original plan which was that they were put on earth to PREPARE THE BRIDE for the coming of her Bridegroom. This people STILL believe that they are the Bride. They STILL don't have a clue that what they must to is WAKE UP to the fact that the things they had AT FIRST are about to die; Love for the words of Jesus that He spoke, the words of God in the Law and the Prophets of which Jesus spoke as the Gospel of the Kingdom, Love for the prophecies of the end in Daniel and Revelation, and most important, Love for the COVENANT OF THE KINGDOM-the 10 Commandments, as the path (narrow gate) to SANCTIFICATION. This 'assembly' has been corrupted by the 'gospel of salvation by grace through faith' that a false Apostle taught AFTER Jesus left this earth. They have rejected the testimony of Jesus that He gave to His own eyewitness disciples (Matthew, Mark and John) in favor of the testimony of a person that teaches the polar opposite of what Jesus taught while on earth. They believe that after Jesus left this earth HE changed His mind about the Gospel of the Kingdom, recognized that HE had made a MISTAKE, and corrected it by giving the GREATEST APOSTLE (according to EGW) NEW information about a NEW covenant that does not require obedience to God through the testimony of Jesus and the 10 Commandments (Rev. 12:17), but only states that anyone that CLAIMS Jesus as their personal savior is now 'saved by grace through faith', and that keeping the Commandments is not only IMPOSSIBLE for mere mortals to accomplish, but it is wholly UNNECESSARY, and if practiced is actually COUNTERPRODUCTIVE to salvation. This 'gospel' completely discounts the words that Jesus spoke about the Gospel of the Kingdom while He was here on earth, and also completely discounts the POWER of the Holy Spirit to work with those humans that desire it, to 'teach them all things' about salvation, and 'guide them into all truth', using the words of Jesus as the instruction manual (John 16:13). Joh 16:13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. Jesus even said that to doubt the Power of the Holy Spirit to do this is the 'unpardonable sin': Mat 12:31 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Yet this is the basis for the entire 'gospel of God' that Paul preaches. And Jesus warned against a gospel of Lawlessness that would be taught by false apostles: Mat 24:11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Mat 24:12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. Grow cold for WHAT? For the words of Jesus, ONLY. His words promote the Laws of God, the words of the imposter promote lawlessness and anarchy. The SDA church of today is not in any way like the early Advent movement of the mid-1800's. Today SDA's are JUST LIKE every other Christian church in that they too believe the gospel of Paul OVER the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven as taught by Jesus Christ the Son of GOD, and which He gave to HIS OWN eyewitness disciples in order to give that message to us, so we could take THAT message to the world, and prepare the Bride for her Bridegroom. THAT is why Jesus is so ANGRY with HIS people, and expresses it in the messages to the Seven churches in Rev.2 and 3; the SDA church has been hijacked by a false prophetess (Rev. 2:18-24), and a false apostle (Rev. 2:2-6) Paul, that the Jezebel seen in that prophecy called 'the Greatest Apostle'. At this time in earths history there is no room for obfuscation or mincing words; Satan HAS deceived the Whole World, including ALL churches, but especially the SDA church, which WAS TO HAVE BEEN the Kingdom of the Heavens on earth, and still could be, IF they get their act together and learn the WORDS OF JESUS instead of learning the words of charlatans.

Thank you. Your responses make more sense now.

Other than to Christ. 4Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God....Romans 7 God is Love!~Jesus saves!

Rossw, Some SDA pastors have never married.

"God is Spirit"...."God is [agape]"....Yes, God dwells in the believer's inner mind (i.e., his/her spirit).

I partially agree with you, Martin. I view things a little differently. In comparing Islamic eschatology in the Q'ran and Hadiths with that of the Bible, I believe Allah to be the dragon, the Madhi to be the antichrist, and the Islamic Prophet Jesus to be the False Prophet referred to in scripture. I don't think specifically identifying which character is which is as critical as identifying the end-time beast power - radicalized Islam. Knowing that, it will be fairly easy to determine the specific players when they appear. I don't think Mary or Catholicism will play a major part in this drama. Many people will tell you that "Islam" means "peace". It does not; it means "submission". What is the difference? In a literal interpretation of Islamic holy writings, there can only be peace when all are in submission to Allah and Sharia (i.e., complete world domination by Islam).

Is it really up to us? God is the authority not us. How a man spiritually runs his family is a great determining factor in whether they are qualified to run a church. Why would we as a society ask the woman to put church responsibilities in priority over the raising of kids and taking care of the home. It's already bad enough for a woman to have to work outside the home, take care if the kids, and then expect them to run the church? It seems, to ask if men are equal to women is a question motivated out of the humanist womens lib movement instead of a genuine Biblical question on if women should, not could, be ordained. To the woman He said,“I will greatly multiplyYour pain [e]in childbirth,In pain you will bring forth children;Yet your desire will be for your husband,And he will rule over you.”

What I find most interesting is that the focus is more on women's opinions and church politics. What does it matter whether women are ordained or not. What are the real issues? Isn't it more important that God's purpose is being carried out? What if God wants us to use the set up of the Old Testament sanctuary and the New Testament selection of His disciples as an example of how His church should be run. Men as priests, apostles - and yes, as pastors. This does not preclude women from being active in the church and the spreading of the gospel - just that they can't be priests , apostles - and pastors. My point is. What's the big deal. This is not our church. Our gospel. Our kingdom. Our creation. It doesn't matter what we think, believe, feel, or how liberated women have become or how far the world has progressed. This all belongs to God and we are fighting over it with no regard for Him. I would say - enough with the drama. Let's get on with God's business - spreading His word and living a life that reveals Him. I don't have to be ordained to do that - I just have to love Him enough to let Him shine through me. No one needs to see me. Only Him. I didn't die to save anyone - He did. And He is alive to prove it. My part is to let others know that. I gain nothing by being an ordained pastor. But oh what joy I'll have by letting others know about the only one who deserves praise, honor, adoration, recognition - a well- deserved title - Mighty God. The Good Sheppard If there is ever a title we should fight for it is to hear God proclaim - well done you good and faithful servant. Praise God!!

The idea that Hillary is totally corrupt is a manufactured political smear campaign that has never had any real substance. No accusation pan out to have any real evidence. Millions of taxpayer money wasted by the congressional republicans for what? Nothing there. And Gowdy even had to tamper with the evidence to try to support his political witch hunt. She is overwhelmingly better qualified and experienced to be president than Trump ever will be. as for Trump's corruption and incompetence, there is a truckload of real evidence. A string of business failures and bankruptcies, a long history of stiffing creditors and contractors working for him, a bogus "Universtiy" over which there is still litigation, and two states attorney generals got hefty reelection campaign contributions from Trump after they drop their investigation/lawsuit about the consumer fraud of that bogus school. Smells like a bribe doesn't it? And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Trump accuses everybody of things he is 10 times worse about. Like lying. Fact checkers can hardly keep up with the flood of misinformation, falsehoods and outright lies coming out of his mouth, every time he opens it. More than 90% of what he says, the independent fact checkers have conformed to be at least partly false to outright completely false. No politician does really well, but Hiliary is far and away more reliable in what she says than Trump.

Missing the point... The point is that EGW affirmed that women can manage the church, which is a function of being an elder, and leader for that matter. As for your supposed ( you were the one that said "maybe") desire to have your questions answered directly, If you are unwilling to do the simple thing I suggested of checking the resources for yourself where those answers are, then I am a bit skeptical of whether you genuinely are seeking answers as much as you are seeking an argument and an opportunity to spread your own POV of doubts about, and opposition to women in ministry and WO. This has been confirmed by your responses to the article and my repeated answers to your questions about Phoebe, one of the clearest and most convincing Biblical examples of a woman in ministry and leadership appointed by Paul himself to lead and guide the Roman believers. It just seems to me that a person truly desiring to find answers and genuinely desiring to learn would welcome and embrace the readily available resources offered that have those answers. The information is there easily and readily available if you really are interested in learning and understanding why we support women in ministry and leadership.

@Rossw carefully read through the collection of EGW quotes I just posted. (It was taken from one of the helpful sources I just referred you to.). Please note the very first one. The management of the local church is a primary function of elders. The rest of the passage from which that sentence was taken clearly states that in her view there were women very capable of fulfilling that role of managing the local church.

If Jesus had actually declared that pork, lobster, etc. were clean foods, contrary to what is written in God's Law of Moses, his enemies would have easily convinced the public that Jesus was a false teacher.

I also would be if it happened to me and I would be giving 'God thanks.

Oh, one of those....A sports bike....Hmmm? Fast.

On the surface no but is it important for the church to be obedient to the precepts of God? The deeper matter is who's truth do we prefer, ours or God's?

I found the pictures my hubby took of the washout. That culvert was 3 feet. The new one is 6 feet.

I've kept a journal for some 38 years now - since I went through a dramatic conversion experience. I wrote in my journal about some 23 "miracles". Those miracles definitely strengthened my belief in a supernatural force. Seven times - during those 38 years, I "heard" a "voice" say things to me. Once it seemed audible. My husband "heard" the "voice" once (audibly) and once (in his mind). All of those miracles were not sufficient to teach me well founded doctrine. No. For that I had to search the Scriptures - intently. I'm still searching them. The amazing complexity of biological systems - also leads me to believe in a Designer. The accurate prophecies concerning Jesus, written hundreds or thousands of years before their fulfillment - lead me to believe in Him. And yes - I agree - the completely insane actions of those under the control of the Evil One, convince me there is a force for Evil, fighting against the Force for good in this world. The WAR has become more and more evident. I will share just one miracle story. In June of 2005 we had monsoon rains just like this year (2016) here in East Texas. We live up a long winding country road. It's about 3/4 of a mile from our house to where our road meets the road going into town. At that junction there is a large culvert running under our road. It is a large one now. It used to be a much smaller one. That night as it rained and rained, we didn't realize the culvert had plugged up with brush and debris, til the road completely washed out. Left was a big gash across, 10 foot wide and about 8 foot deep, with the small culvert laying in the bottom. I will attach a picture to this post if I can. My husband used to play racquet-ball at the Y, and he would leave our house about 4am. He was so used to our road, that he would drive it kinda fast - though I always worried about him hitting a deer with his little Chevy pickup. This is country, and there were no lights along the road. Back then there were only a couple of houses, back off the road. So the only lights were his headlights. As he drove down the winding road, he suddenly saw deer - I mean a big herd of them - running alongside of him. He slowed way down to let them pass. But instead of passing, they just stayed right with him. He was now going only 5 miles an hour - really creeping along. He was irritated, thinking he wouldn't have as much time to play his raquet-ball. The deer gathered in front of his pickup. They wouldn't move. They just stood there. Finally he got out of his pickup - in the rain. Then the deer dispersed. Then he saw "something"?? in the road. The road didn't look right in his headlights. What he saw about stopped his heart. The road was completely washed out, with angry water rushing through the crater. He came home and called the Sheriff and any neighbors we new. We were trapped for 2 days - cause that was the only outlet to the main road, and any off-road soil was too boggy to risk driving on. I am absolutely convinced that the LORD's angels herded those deer, to save my husband. I've gotta go search for those pictures. They're in a digital file somewhere on my husband's computer. I loaded a picture of our property back then, just so you can see how country it is.

when we believe our authority is the authority of God, and feel it is our responsibility to make others know the truth and make children obey the Lord... we step into all the risks of abuse of power. The Law of kindness is to rule our hearts then our home. David said, Thy gentleness hath made me great. we are not to be lording anything over anyone. i grew up in a fearful authoritarian adventist home... and i tell you the truth can be made to serve a lie.

Haven't posted a pic of my baby (my bike, I mean, not my wife!), so here it is:

a steampunk motorcycle, built from the ground, up...

Lets start with trying to come to a consensus on some ground rules for this exercise. #1 - I have come to the understanding that many (if not most) of these parables of Jesus are also prophecy concerning the role, capability, and attitude of the Kingdom of Heaven at the time of the end. As the Son of God Himself said there was only ONE thing that He didn't know about the future and that is found in Matt. 24, where Jesus is giving His disciples a master class on the events of the end of time. Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. Now as you know, many Christians believe that because of this text, that no one can know the day or the hour of the Lord's 'second'* coming; and I would say especially SDA's, because of the Oct. 22, 1844 fiasco, where these Advent believers 'went out to meet the bridegroom' believing that THEY were the bride, and He didn't come. The backlash from this is that it is now the SDA position that we should not attempt to figure out any timing of the end, but just live our lives as if Jesus is coming tomorrow. Yet the parables of Jesus (IMO) show distinct references to not only previous prophetic identities from the Old Testament, but radical NEW prophetic testimony of things to come that do not in any way relate to Israel as the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus indicated that there would be an entirely NEW and DIFFERENT Kingdom of Heaven, because Jesus took the Trusteeship of the Covenant AWAY from Israel (Matt. 21:43) in order to give it to this new Kingdom entity that WOULD accomplish the tasks for which God had designed and populated the original Kingdom of Heaven in the first place (Israel). This New Kingdom would finish what the OLD Kingdom would not. So we need to agree that these parable/prophecies of Jesus about the Kingdom of Heaven contain not only prophecy concerning Ancient Israel, but also prophecies that involve a brand new, never been seen before, Kingdom, that at the time that Jesus was here on earth was not yet populated by anyone. Therefore, whatever Jesus says about this Kingdom of Heaven that does not readily credit Israel must involve new prophecy about a new kingdom. And because God knows the end from the beginning we can look for evidence of this NEW Kingdom in OT prophecy, and find it. #1 - There timing in both Old and New Testament prophecy has definable beginning points and ending points, that can be established by careful study and problem solving. If you know the beginning date and the duration of the prophecy you can figure out the end date. If you know the end date and the duration you should be able to calculate the start date. #2 - All symbols in prophecy represent something literal. A symbol cannot represent another symbol. A symbol does not change to mean one thing in one prophecy, and another thing in another prophecy. Example: heads, horns, and crowns. If a prophecy in one place states a certain number of heads, and horns, and crowns, and is associated with a unique symbol, then in order to be THAT same symbol in another prophecy somewhere else it must have EXACTLY the same number of heads, horns, and crowns as the original. We must agree that God has the capability to maintain the same symbolic reference points across time and space, and we must not willy-nilly change those reference points to interpret prophecy the way we want it to be. #3 - Day/Year timing only applies on the Day/Year Calendar. Any prophecy containing stated timing that has not been fulfilled on the Day/Year calendar, is to be considered literal time. #4 - Timing stated in Years cannot be changed into Days, weeks, or months. Timing given in a prophecy must remain in THAT in it's original form in the explanation. Therefore, if 1260 days cannot be found to have been fulfilled during the Day/Year calendar then it must remain in days and not be changed into any other form, simply for convenience. So, if this all right with you? Take your time in looking this over, and please make suggestions as to improvements you see that would be needed to make or discussion of the Kingdom of Heaven more relevant.

Shrimp are the cockroaches of the ocean. God made them to CLEAN dirty water. Would you eat something from a sewage treatment plant?

Gail, this is a difficult question.... I could give you many reasons, but I guess one of the most basic reasons that I believe God is real is when I see a moon rise on a clear, cool night. Such an event reminds me of what both Paul wrote in Romans 1:20 and David in Psalm 19:1