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@Green Cochoa and @Rossw - Both of you are just playing argumentative word games. If diakonos is merely a servant or merely one who ministers in a general or secular sense, than you are neutralizing the very phrase "husband of one wife" as well as the other qualifications that Paul applies to diakonos. Was he talking broadly about the qualifications of servants in general? I would assume you believe he was talking about the application of the role/function, or office if you will, in the church. How much more plainly would he have to state it than that precisely about Phoebe when he referred to her as "diakonos of the church at Chenchrea! You are correct that the literal meaning of the word is "servant" and that it is used commonly in a secular sense. But that is the truth of every term we currently identify as a church office that we take from the NT. They were all common words with a primarily secular meaning. It is only in the modern era that the English word "deacon" that we derive from the Greek word "diakonos" has almost exclusively a religious meaning and usage. The same goes for bishop, disciple, apostle, and pastor. And even minister and elder to perhaps a lesser extent. The Greek words that have been translated in the NT as each of those words were in the 1st Century common practical secular terms that the NT writers applied to roles and functions within the Church. To now try to reduce the meanings of those words to that common secular meaning only when it applies to women, is the very result of the minimizing of women that the long male dominant tradition of the church.

...The apostle Paul has given an illustration of this. To the church at Rome he says: “I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: that ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.” Romans 16:1, 2.Phebe entertained the apostle, and she was in a marked manner an entertainer of strangers who needed care. Her example should be followed by the churches of today. 6T 343.4

"But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Cori. 3:18)

LHC, Thank you for thinking of me. I was raised SDA by my mother, and studied the SDA interpretation of prophecy at PUC. I graduated from Loma Linda back in 1979. I have listened to Doug Batchelor's talks on prophecy. So I'm very familiar. I just don't agree with the SDA interpretation of prophecy any longer - especially 1844, and SDA belief concerning "the rest of the dead". I don't have all the answers by any means, but my understanding is growing. If you read Daniel 7:21-22, it's pretty clear that the Little Horn will persecute the people of God for 1260 days, which END at the Second Coming. The same scenario is repeated in Revelation with the two witnesses. They are killed and then are raised to life by the Voice of God, and ascend to Heaven. That's the Second Coming.

You need to study the word and how it is used some more. Apparently, Gregory also needs to do this, as he couldn't grasp the content of my last post. The fact is, "diakonos" means exactly what you have said: "merely a servant or merely one who ministers in a general or secular sense." This is why the example I gave is so appropriate in illustrating the need to look carefully at the context. The Bible explains itself, however. None need take it from me. Be a Berean. Have a look at the verses that use "diakonos" and see for yourself. http://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1249&t=KJV For those too lazy to click on a link and ponder the truths they see there, I will paste below a list of those verses in which I have replaced the Greek word for comparison. Mat 20:26 - But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your diakonos; [G1249] Mat 22:13 - Then said the king to the diakonos, [G1249] Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mat 23:11 - But he that is greatest among you shall be your diakonos. [G1249] Mar 9:35 - And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and diakonos [G1249] of all. Mar 10:43 - But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your diakonos: [G1249] Jhn 2:5 - His mother saith unto the diakonos, [G1249] Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. Jhn 2:9 - When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the diakonos [G1249] which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, Jhn 12:26 - If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my diakonos [G1249] be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. Rom 13:4 - For he is the diakonos [G1249] of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the diakonos [G1249] of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Rom 15:8 - Now I say that Jesus Christ was a diakonos [G1249] of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: Rom 16:1 - I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a diakonos [G1249] of the church which is at Cenchrea: 1Co 3:5 - Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but diakonos [G1249] by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 2Co 3:6 - Who also hath made us able diakonos [G1249] of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 2Co 6:4 - But in all things approving ourselves as the diakonos [G1249] of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 2Co 11:15 - Therefore it is no great thing if his diakonos [G1249] also be transformed as the diakonos [G1249] of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 2Co 11:23 - Are they diakonos [G1249] of Christ? (I speak as a fool ) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Gal 2:17 - But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the diakonos [G1249] of sin? God forbid. Eph 3:7 - Whereof I was made a diakonos, [G1249] according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Eph 6:21 - But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful diakonos [G1249] in the Lord, shall make known to you all things: Phl 1:1 - Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and diakonos: [G1249] Col 1:7 - As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful diakonos [G1249] of Christ; Col 1:23 - If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a diakonos; [G1249] Col 1:25 - Whereof I am made a diakonos, [G1249] according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Col 4:7 - All my state shall Tychicus declare unto you, who is a beloved brother, and a faithful diakonos [G1249] and fellowservant in the Lord: 1Th 3:2 - And sent Timotheus, our brother, and diakonos [G1249] of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

U.S. Armed Forces are assigned all over the world. Sometimes, families will be required to obtain housing in the normal civilian market of that country. A Chaplain newly assigned, with his family to an English speaking country had made arrangements to view a rental home. After knocking on the door, a woman opened it. He greeted her with his first name and said: Hello, I'm Randy. She looked back at him as if she were about to assault him. He simply did not understand the meaning that the people of that country attached to his first name. Cultures are different.

I don't think it's just loopholes; I don't think existing laws are adequately enforced.

How true, how true.....

Source is my own experience. I do not know where to place this post so it can be moved if necessary. In the light of conflict and misunderstanding between the public and Law Enforcement I am offering these suggestions to Clergy to avoid 'getting tickets'. I am involved in both Clergy and Law Enforcement. Law enforcement personnel are reluctant to 'write up tickets to several classes of people including Clergy, Doctors and Nurses BUT they have to know that you fit into one of these classes before they even get out of their squad cars to talk with you. May I offer the following suggests which I have found helpful? 1. Determine to obey any and all posted speed signs and other admonitions... Then DO IT! 2. On the back of your vehicle display a simple sign saying Clergy or Pastor. 3.Get your hands on a Shirt with a Clerical collar. Go to the Department of Motor Vehicles and have your picture with the clerical collar taken for your driver's license. This is called "Playing the game by 'their rules'.. Nuff Sed

97O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day. 98Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me. 99I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation. 100I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts. 101I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word. 102I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me. 103How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth! 104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.....Psalms 119 22After removing Saul, He raised up David as their king and testified about him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse a man after My own heart; he will carry out My will’ in its entirety. …13For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love. 14The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15But if you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out, or you will be consumed by each other.… Galatians 5 God is Love!~Jesus saves!

Obviously.

Let's see, I suppose the "Minister of Education" in my country can now perform marriages and baptisms too. (Except he is most probably a Buddhist.) Ha! The point is, if "diakonos" just means servant/minister (one who serves/ministers) one has to be exceedingly careful to understand the context of its use. This is why Mrs. White spoke of "ordained minister" or "minister in the sacred desk" or "gospel minister" to set the word apart from simply "minister" or even "pastor." Most of the "heat" (not "light") on this topic comes from a willful conflation of these terms, ignoring their contextual use, in order to support a particular opinion.

Abraham WAITED 15 years from the day a son was promised him through Sarah. He watched her go through menopause. Nothing happened. He gave up hoping and waiting, and followed Sarah's advice to use Hagar. Before we judge Abraham - do we stop and think about how long we could wait - and still BELIEVE the promise we heard?? I made some BAD choices back in the day. Any one of those choices could have brought seriously BAD consequences, yet I was somehow shielded. I believe now - that it was because of my mother's constant prayers. Shortly before her death, she made me promise that I would never stop praying for my sister and brother (both still atheists at this point). I have personally experienced over 20 miracles - real miracles. Yet I've had chronic migraines since I was 19, and have never yet been healed. I was born with a serious malformation of my skull and upper cervical vertebra. Now my neck has bad arthritis and I have degenerative changes. I also had viral encephalitis back in 1980, and was left with simple partial seizures. I still take meds for that. God has healed nothing. The one thing I want most - is denied me. So Geoarrge, I am VERY familiar with chronic pain - a real faith tester, if ever there was one. When I meet my guardian angel, I'm gonna ask him - WHY? WHY did He leave me with the pain? Who knows? Maybe it was just to keep me humble. Maybe He knew I'd get a "fat head" if I had nothing to hold me back. To me - the terrible pain suffered by millions of human beings in this world IS the biggest roadblock to belief in a God who "is Love". See - believing "God" exists, is not the same as trusting that Being. Some folks who have suffered a lot, or have been frustrated for a long time don't really want to "believe" that God exists, because they feel - deep down inside - that they would not be able to "love Him" or "trust Him". Now - I do have faith - because of the miracles, and the evidence of science, and the evidence of prophecy, and just the real difference I see in people who "know God" vs people who do not. But I understand the struggle. Believe me. I do.

How short your memory is! Phoebe was a diakonos of the church at Cenchrea. Not an if a woman can or can't be. According to Paul she in fact was a diakonos. And combined with also being a prostatis her position to which Paul appointed he was no less than a bishop/elder. The essential meaning of the Greek idiomatic phrase "one woman man" was "monogamous" a oneness/faithfulness of one man and one woman, two united as one. It wasn't descriptive of the man only. Since Paul used that in reference to diakonos and referred to Phoebe as a diakonos, it is obvious it was not limited to men only.

when you're too old to ride your motorcycles...

when Jesus is lifted up by the power of the holy spirit three things occur, the conviction of sin happens, the righteousness of Christ makes it all too plain, and the condemnation and the judgement of sin is made clear.... to assume that the delineation of the written law is necessary... denies the power of the Holy Spirit to write the law on the hearts of those who have never read the law and may never read the law. the work of the Holy Spirit will ever agree with the law and will be witnessed by the and in agreement with the law, but if you have not read the law this will in no wise limit the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul ministered the Gospel to the gentiles, he did not minister the law. the law is embodied in the Gospel... self denying love is the heart of God, and the heart of the law. To no longer serve the flesh and the walk in the Spirit is to become a new creation and God's new creation will not live unto the flesh and glorify sin. The steps to ever walking closer to God is a sacred walk that is orchestrated by the Holy Spirit.... we are not to superseded the Work of God of saving someone even ourselves. We cannot take the law and bring ourselves in harmony with it. the flesh has been weakened by sin. Romans 8. The righteousness of Christ alone can save us and bring us into harmony with God. our acts of attempting to obey the law will never save us. this area relationship between the law and the gospel has been an area where self rises up to earn salvation. It is when the Holy Spirit writes the law on our hearts, and we agree and accept this that our lives are in harmony with God. Can two walk together unless they are agreed.

When i exercise faIth God seems more real. my faith can fluctuate... but when i gaze on trees, the starry night sky, people... the wonders of creation by faith i acknowledge the power and wisdom of God as creator and sustainer. when i pray God seems real... when i am in conviction of my need for God, God seems real. When i enjoy self control... that i have not had ... and deep peace... God seems real.

Not to be rude, but I don't buy that you are actually giving the full and complete gospel.

Haven't posted a pic of my baby (my bike, I mean, not my wife!), so here it is:

I'm not seeing it here. Australian Government Institute of Criminology statistics: http://www.aic.gov.au/dataTools/facts/vicViolentCol.html There's not yet enough data to see if getting over the spike in robberies amounts to a total downward trend, homicides have gone down, but sexual assaults are up. I'm not altogether comfortable with the idea that women (or the elderly or disabled) ought to have to defend themselves hand-to-hand. It seems like a callous position to take.

I wouldn't be an issue, Tom if the prowo crowd didn't keep pushing it. You know this. It is divisive because it tampers with people's confidence in the Bible.