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The Roman Catholic Church actively worked for more than a thousand years, to keep the Bible away from the people. They executed translators. They executed anyone found with the translations. Church services were performed in Latin, a language only spoken by priests or very wealthy persons. Let's compare Roman Catholic doctrines and practice with The Bible. Each RC doctrine must be answered with a Bible verse. I'll start. RC doctrine or practice: Calling the Pope "Holy Father", and all priests "Father" Answer: "And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, even he who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9 ASV)

I have a friend - recently baptized, who is the first from her large extended family to question Catholic doctrine. She has a sister who is a nun. Of course, she is getting pressure. She says to me over and over, "I need Bible Mrs Rachel." "I need to answer them with Bible." She and I have been slowly going over all the Catholic doctrines she learned in her 53 years, comparing them with Scripture. Fortunately her husband has not been against her new faith. He can see how happy it has made her - to realize that she is "saved by faith".

I agree with the following EGW statements: Jesus stands in the holy of holies, now to appear in the presence of God for us. There He ceases not to present His people moment by moment, complete in Himself. But because we are thus represented before the Father, we are not to imagine that we are to presume upon His mercy and become careless, indifferent, and self-indulgent. Christ is not the minister of sin. We are complete in Him, accepted in the Beloved, only as we abide in Him by faith. RC 76.4 Perfection through our own good works we can never attain. The soul who sees Jesus by faith repudiates his own righteousness. He sees himself as incomplete, his repentance insufficient, his strongest faith but feebleness, his most costly sacrifice as meager, and he sinks in humility at the foot of the cross. But a voice speaks to him from the oracles of God's Word. In amazement he hears the message, “Ye are complete in him” (Colossians 2:10). Now all is at rest in his soul. No longer must he strive to find some worthiness in himself, some meritorious deed by which to gain the favor of God. RC 76.5

Lev 4:29 "He (the transgressor) shall lay his hand on the head of the sin offering, and kill the sin offering at the place of the burnt offering. 30 Then the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger, put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and pour all the remaining blood at the base of the altar. 31 He shall remove all its fat, as fat is removed from the sacrifice of the peace offering; and the priest shall burn it on the altar for a sweet aroma to the Lord. So the priest shall make atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him. Hebrews 10:11 "And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man (Christ, our High Priest), after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God" In Old Testament times God forgave out of His forbearance. See Rom 3:25

In the current politically correct climate, accusations of "bashing", or homo-phobe, or Islam-a-phobe are used to silence those who would teach from the Bible. What if Martin Luther had never "bashed" the practices of the Roman Church.

We did have a nice thread going here at one time on SOP wisdom on dealing with Catholics... did not involve bashing, but rather pointing out what was wright rather than what was wrong... Would like someone to find that...

I just wanted to state my hope that the thread would *not* turn into a Catholic-bashing thread. I didn't even infer that it had already happened. Of course, it's appropriate to question various doctrines of *all* faiths, including Catholicism, as well as Adventism..

PAM, It is not my intent to "bash" Catholics. We should love Catholics - just not Catholic Church doctrine. Rather, I believe that most Adventists do not understand Catholic DOCTRINE, and therefore are not prepared to meet it with Bible. Where I worked for several years, there was an ardent Catholic doctor (one of my bosses). I actually liked the guy. He kept it light spirited - for the most part. He used to ask me questions (always in front of others) seeking to support Catholic doctrine. One day he asked, "What's wrong with praying to the saints? Don't you ask others to pray for you?" Yes, I replied. I do. But I always ask people who are still alive. The Bible absolutely forbids any communication with "the dead". It was a death penalty offense. At this forum we are allowed to question SDA doctrine, even if we are not personally SDA. Some SDAs get offended, but the moderators here believe that any true doctrine can be defended from the Bible. I am looking for short (easily expressed) Bible verse answers to Catholic doctrine. I'm not interested in Catholic Church history - at least on this thread. Pam, If most folks are on vacation, and there is not much response to this thread, I will just let it go. . . . .

I hope this doesn't get turned into a Catholic-bashing thread. The roots of the SDA church isn't without its wrong teachings. How would we like for Catholics to start pointing out all the mistakes believed and practiced by early (and current) Adventists? Not much, I suspect. (I come from this perspective because I have a number of relatives, including two close cousins, who are Catholics priests. They don't consider themselves to be "God's voice" because their title is "Father Bob", anymore than my SDA brother whose title is "Elder T." considers himself as God's voice.) **back to topic** .... I guess...

The doctrine which says that Mary the Mother of Jesus was sinless Answer: Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (NKJ) The doctrine that Mary was taken to Heaven after her death, and now intercedes for believers Answer: 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, (NIV) NOTE: I'm looking for simple Bible here - not an exegesis.

Hmmmm...how well do you know TW, went to school and studied with him? Personal acquaintance? There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

But that's just it..it is a gamble. Most politicians (if not all) are bought out. Here's my suggestion: the politicians should try attire like this: