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Part of the problem is too much simplistic, black-and-white thinking. I have shared here before that my wife had an abortion. Our first child was anencephalic: she had no head above the nose line. We discovered this relatively early in the pregnancy. She would not have survived birth, or lived after birth. God was not doing any miracles to fix this. We made the incredibly difficult decision to terminate the pregnancy, rather than to risk my wife's life and make her carry through an entire pregnancy with a baby who was already for all purposes dead. I would hope others would not judge us for our decision, and I would seek to avoid judging others who are placed in similar impossible situations. I am against abortion for purely contraceptive purposes, but that does not mean I would call myself and my wife, or people like us, murderers. We live in a fallen world. Ideals are important, but sometimes the world does not fit.

I have always stated that I'm against abortion used as birth control where you have a healthy mom and a healthy infant.

Did you read David's post? I would have to say that, yes, sometimes killing is an acceptable treatment. Again, your earlier post showed your inexperience in terms of possible cases that may present for treatment at a medical facility. To make abortion illegal would be to force misery and woe on countless women in similar situations to that of David and his wife. Thank you, David, for being willing to divulge personal experiences like that to help educate people here. Yours is not the only case where a good outcome is impossible, and abortion is actually the best answer. Many have similar experiences. A little online reading would pull some up, for anyone willing to look into it. God created us with a built-in ability to self-abort (miscarry) a defective fetus. That should give us pause. Sometimes, nature doesn't do what it is supposed to, and manual interventions are necessary. I'm glad our Adventist hospitals don't just turn their eyes away from these needs, but are willing to offer proper medical services to women needing abortions. In cases like David's, how would the couple feel to be required, by law, to wait 72 hours, or to receive some form of anti-abortion counseling before making the choice to abort, or how would they feel if they had not had an ultrasound and discovered the problem until after the first trimester had passed, and the abortion was now illegal? Again, I am not pro-abortion. I am anti-legislation on the matter, for good reason.

This was my first "car", except it was gold.

I was living at the time in Arizona. My first car that I bought in1967, was a 1957 Volkswagen. The car was painted bright orange and parked at some snack bar place. The guy who owned it was agreeable and I paid for it right on the spot from my savings I had with me. We got the paperwork finished and I drove off. A little afterwards a police car tailed me and then put their siren on. I moved over to the edge of the road. "Inexperience me" thought they were wanting to pass me and scurry off to a crime or something. When I finally understood they wanted me to stop driving I stopped to the side of the road. It must have irked them what with me not obeying right away. The officer spoke real gruff with me and I felt really intimidated and quite fearful. Finally I understood what they were on about. They thought I was involved in crime. The orange VW was known to the cops as a courier wagon driving over the border to Mexico. It brought back drugs. They cautioned me to paint it another color. I did. Shortly afterwards I was driving it in bright green.

Can you imagine this happening today???? I will let the historians argue the accuracy of this, but it would sure be nice to see this today. Harry & Bess Harry Truman was a different kind of President. He probably made as many, or more important decisions regarding our nation's history as any of the other 42 Presidents preceding him. However, a measure of his greatness may rest on what he did after he left the White House. The only asset he had when he died was the house he lived in, which was in Independence , Missouri . His wife had inherited the house from her mother and father and other than their years in the White House, they lived their entire lives there. When he retired from office in 1952 his income was a U.S. Army pension reported to have been $13,507.72 a year. Congress, noting that he was paying for his stamps and personally licking them, granted him an 'allowance' and, later, a retroactive pension of $25,000 per year. After President Eisenhower was inaugurated, Harry and Bess drove home to Missouriby themselves. There was no Secret Service following them. When offered corporate positions at large salaries, he declined, stating, "You don't want me. You want the office of the President, and that doesn't belong to me. It belongs to the American people and it's not for sale." Even later, on May 6, 1971, when Congress was preparing to award him the Medal of Honor on his 87th birthday, he refused to accept it, writing, "I don't consider that I have done anything which should be the reason for any award, Congressional or otherwise." As president he paid for all of his own travel expenses and food. Modern politicians have found a new level of success in cashing in on the Presidency, resulting in untold wealth. Today, many in Congress also have found a way to become quite wealthy while enjoying the fruits of their offices. Political offices are now for sale (cf. Illinois ). Good old Harry Truman was correct when he observed, "My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference! I say dig him up and clone him!

Times were a bit different then... But maybe not so different in some ways supporting the saying that the more things change the more they stay the same... Harry also said this about the Republican Party -

Elul 12 Life's Big Picture My credo in life has always been: Work hard, plan, and struggle. Yet I find that things often just end up a big mess. The righteous suffer and the wicked prosper. How can the pieces of this puzzle possibly fit together? The Aish Rabbi Replies: The premise for this question comes from a certain lack of perspective. Somehow we imagine that the world began when we're born, and ends when we die. Everything that happened beforehand is lumped together as "ancient history." If I can't understand it today, then it must not make sense at all. The following story has a very deep message: There once was a farmer who owned a horse. One day the horse ran away. All the people in the town came to console him because of the loss. "Oh, I don't know," said the farmer, "maybe it's a bad thing and maybe it's not." A few days later, the horse returned to the farm accompanied by 20 other horses. (Apparently he had found some wild horses and made friends!) All the townspeople came to congratulate him: "Now you have a stable full of horses!" "Oh, I don't know," said the farmer, "maybe it's a good thing and maybe it's not." A few days later, the farmer's son was out riding one of the new horses. The horse got wild and threw him off, breaking the son's leg. All the people in town came to console the farmer because of the accident. "Oh, I don't know," said the farmer, "maybe it's a bad thing and maybe it's not." A few days later, the government declared war and instituted a draft of all able-bodied young men. They came to the town and carted off hundreds of young men, except for the farmer's son who had a broken leg. "Now I know," said the farmer, "that it was a good thing my horse ran away." The point of this story is obvious. Life is a series of events, and until we've reached the end of the series, it's hard to know exactly why things are happening. That's one reason the Torah commands us to give respect to every elderly person - because through the course of life experience, they have seen the jigsaw puzzle pieces fall into place. It is interesting that one of the weekly Torah portions, "Miketz," ends on a bad note, and is then resolved at the beginning of the following week. Why didn't the Torah simply extend "Miketz" a few verses and have it end good? Because the Torah wants to communicate the lesson that we don't always see the whole picture. More than any other Biblical account, the story of Joseph illustrates the lesson "that everything turns out good in end." In order to drive home this lesson, the Torah makes us wait one week to find out the ending! The truth is that we are here on Earth for short time. We do not see the "Big Picture." We don't know all the details that happened before we were here, and we certainly don't know what will happen after we're gone. It is unfair to take a single event out of context. Why did it happen? We might not see the answer immediately; we might not even see in our lifetime. In truth, it is often when things look the most grim that they then turn around. The night is at its absolute darkness just moments before the first rays of morning sun begin to illuminate the sky. In the morning prayer service, we say, "Blessed are You, God, Who forms light and creates darkness..." Judaism says that the darkness is not a negative, but rather is a necessary step along the path toward light. Only because of our limited perception, do we perceive the darkness as an end unto itself. A seed, when placed in the ground, is in a dark, cold and dirty place. The seed then begins to decay. To the onlooker, it looks like death. And then, at the very moment that the seed has completely broken down, something miraculous happens. It begins to sprout. Think about your life, your career, your relationships with others and with God. Was the process smooth? In general, have you experienced greater growth when times have been tough or when times have been smooth? From the darkness comes light.

I feel like coming to kick you as well. Nice car... 2 speed slush box or 4 speed manual?

Good taste!

Nothing like car nostalgia.....my first, in 1965, was '57 2-door HT Belair Chevy. Had it for about 7 years, 2 engine rebuilds and a new, built 327 when I sold it. Been kicking myself ever since!!!!!

the first car I drove was a 1954 Ford — built like a tank! But the first car that was mine and mine alone was my 1989 Ford Probe — it was the first one to be sold in the State. Best car EVER! It had close to 400K when it finally gave out.

Mine was a 1972(?) Ford Corolla. Baby Poo Mustard I think was the name of the colour. And it was totally oxidized just to give it that look. # like totally

LOL. Typical socialist thinking on this thread. Those who disagree with us are themselves responsible for us physically attacking them because they said things we don't like.... Right there, Bonnie, is the whole secret to the socialist word play.... You're responsible for any violence because you said things we don't like....

My first one is a 52 ford 1/2 ton something like the attached.. Some thought it was a '49 Flathead V8

Hahaha! I know the numbers go from double zero to 36. So...I think I'll agree that your "good idea" is probably right!

I have a good idea!!

Here is my first car, after the Seminary, a 1964 Ford Mustang. NOTE: My color was different. My color was sorta a gold.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=1959+rambler+american&qpvt=1959+rambler+american&qpvt=1959+rambler+american&qpvt=1959+rambler+american&FORM=IGRE

I would be classified as a liberal by many on this forum, depending on whose def is being used, and I know a truck load in general who always take responsibiliey for their actions. Always have and always will.

Regardless, according to the Genesis account that human being became a living soul at the point time that the human being became able to breath on its own.

Really though, the big difference is that this story has taken a very long time to get media attention, to get any traction. For weeks now secondary sources have been on this story of Trump's alleged bribing of Bondi and illegally using his foundation to hide it. But few of the large news networks have given it more than a passing reference until recently. And it is distinctly something real and serious. As compared to the instantaneous and sustained coverage of nothing of any real substance in terms of wrong doing or scandal or corruption about the Clinton Foundation. Continuing to beat on Clinton over nothing really does seem like persecution. NBC did just headline it, but only after the NY Attorney General announced opening an investigation of Trump's Foundation. Since it is a NY based private foundation, it is properly within its jurisdiction to do so. State attorney generals have regulatory and legal compliance oversight responsibility for nonprofits within their state. The IRS is not commenting because legally they cannot do so. But it would not surprise me if the IRS is not finished with this. This is important and significant. There are too many missteps for this to have been a simple honest mistake, or clerical error. And the explanations really don't quite add up. This appears to be just one example of the way Trump has been using his foundation for similar self dealing. Like using the foundation to buy a painting for $20,000 of himself at a charity auction. Or reporting donations that never happened or that really were't from him as he claimed. Not trying to toot my own horn on this, but this is an issue within my area of legal expertise. I am just saying that so you understand that I do know what I am talking about on this issue.

No. There is a hard core group of people on both sides who are not going to change their minds. But, there are others who may be beginning to look at the issues. For these people, the discussion is helpful in making up their minds.

279 posts and there's still no definitive answer as to whether or not abortion of a fetus is a sin? Come on, people. Do you think you'll ever see eye to eye?

Nic said, below: An examination of Genesis 2:7 establishes that when God created humanity He did more than just supply oxygen, Rather, God supplied oxygen in a manner that His created being became capable of breathing on his own. It was at that point that this new creation became under the Biblical definition a living soul. The fact that an unborn fetus does receive oxygen through the mother's blood does not rise to the level of that ability to breath on its own. Green is more correct than is Nic.

Nic, The Bible commands certain forms of killing. Hatred would convert that killing into the crime of murder, which was to be punished with death. Killing had to be without hatred in order to comply with God's law. I'm quite sure most people who choose to get an abortion do not do so out of hatred for their unborn. If you were to say a "lack of love" was the basis for prohibiting abortion, how do you know if there was a lack of love? Consider the case where the parents really want the child, but something goes wrong and they must choose to abort because it's not going to end well in any case. It happens. The abortion itself is not hatred. Therefore, motivation must be considered on this issue.