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When persons of Spiritual integrity confronted Church leaders about errors in teaching, in the 1500s and after, we hail them as Reformation heroes. How is it, that in the Third Millenium, we are urged to abandon our conscience in favor of "church unity"? The counsel of Acts 4 is that we should obey God, rather than man. I have been a baptized member of the Adventist Church for 53 years. I was an ordained minister of the Church in three different conferences. I love the Adventist Church. I believe in the message of the Church, but, I will not sacrifice my conscience because of a majority vote. History has repeatedly shown that the majority is very often wrong! If the General Conference takes punitive actions against Unions who follow their consciences, it is time to "stand for the right though the heavens fall." My faith is in Jesus Christ and the Bible, not in humans, even if they are elected officials.

When Church leaders are willing to have a Church split over the trivial differences of what a Commission Minister and an Ordained Minister can or can not do, we either need new leaders or a new Church.

It would be a huge thing to me if this was not a trivial item, and I know calling it trivial will seem insulting to some, but it is not. So a conference thinks that women should be able to organize and close Churches. that is about the only difference between a Commission Pastor and an Ordained... for that they are willing to risk splitting the Church I say leave the Unions and Conferences alone, if they grow than good, if they fail to grow the mission of the Church then they need to re evaluate. The proof will be in the pudding. Not difficult to me.

This thread is about Robert and his beloved dog and I love the love expressed here. Us pet lovers know exactly the pain and loss felt. I took great comfort in two things when wild animals killed three of our pets here in the forest two Octobers ago. 1. we will see them in heaven 2. we loved and cared and spoiled our creatures in the short time they were here. Others animals have not been so blessed in this cruel world. # another reason God will bring all earthly creatures back

I believe that Jesus did voluntarily leave His pre-incarnate "God stuff" in heaven when He came to earth. Everything He did while on earth was through the power and commands of His Father. Did He take His "God stuff" back when He ascended into heaven? Or is His "God stuff" what we now call the Holy Spirit, or Comforter? Jesus did say He would be with us always, even until the end of the age. Is He with us now through His Spirit ("God stuff")? Is what many people call the 3rd person of the Trinity actually the Spirit ("God stuff") of Christ? I think so. That makes me a "Twinitarian"

"When the Holy Spirit leaves the church, all we have left is religion". - Bono (maybe not the exact quote)

In yet another effort on this quest to understand the weirdly warped political world we find ourselves - https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/about-thinking/201610/trump-is-only-the-symptom Just trying to run counter to the trend and make sense of it all...

The Unions need to ask for forgiveness or repent? "According to reliable sources, should the unions choose not to repent or ask forgiveness for their actions, the item will be brought back to Annual Council in 2017." This is TRAGIC.

JoeMo said below: People on both sides consider this issue to be much more than trivial. The real issue is what do we who have strong convictions do about our convictions? Do we take it upon ourselves, individually or in groups, attempt to purify the denomination? Or, do we leave such an issue to God to ultimately resolve? Do we even believe that God can resolve it, or do we think that we are the only ones who can resolve it?

O YES! God is helping us! O YES!! How much more could He help us than by sacrificing His own divine Son (who is also God) to pay the penalty for our sins. If you think that Jesus did a good enough job to save us, then O YES!! If you think that you need to add to Jesus' sacrifice to "earn" your salvation, then O NO!!

This has also been debated at length on other threads. Let me just refer you to a study at my website: http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/11-DOMINION.pdf My understanding, is that Jesus had to overcome as a man, in order to win back the dominion of earth FOR mankind. Jesus said very clearly, "The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works" (NKJ).

Gerry, in a democratic society, such as the United States of America, the will of the majority is always limited. It is not unlimited. You asked if in that event that an issue did not involve a mandate from God, should not the majority prevail. I say it potentially should not. If it does not involve a mandate from God, then it is not important enough for the majority to override the wishes of a few. Gerry, take a look at our denominational history. Ellen White encouraged the formation of the Unions because she felt that there was to usurpation of power by the General Conference. She urged a decentralization in which people working in the area would decide how to conduct the work. I do not agree with every so-called new effort to do the work that we have been given to do. But, I believe that God is God and we can allow something to grow to the point where it demonstrates whether it is of God or not of God. To me, the message from China is clear: God has ordained women to fully fill a pastoral role. This does not mean that women can effectively work in every area of the world. Local areas can decide how they should be worked to accomplish our God-given mission. Gerry, I believe that at this time in our denominational history, EGW, if she were alive, would bring the same message of reproof to us that she did when she called for the establishment of the Unions in order to get some level of decision making power out of the General Conference.

How about these two. 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.....Matthew 22 Go is Love!~Jesus saves!

No.

Would not be considered 'nice' to use the correct word/s!!