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Lets be very careful that this Forum doesn't become know as a 'finger pointing' one also. I do know of people who have left because of that attribute also

When I was a coleporteur I met so many XSDAs. I lived in an Adventist Ghetto and I was surrounded and saturated with Adventism which I felt at home with.. I remember as a very young naive idealic on fire for God deeply hiding man .. I couldnt understand why anyone would leave the Mother Church. I would ask.. "Ummm did you read The Great Controversy?" and then stunned when they said yes. I couldn't process it. Now decades later.. I understand. Aside from the hurts and misunderstandings and spiritual abuse and church politics that was shared with me thru the years.... I now understand how our presentations,sermons,debate etc. can persuade and win over people.minds. Answering much asked questions in their lives. But we easily get convincing and conviction mixed up in the process. We can win the best of arguments with our theology. But unless the soul is converted and cherished and nourished and loved ..people do not stick around. Oh sure it can become a lifestyle and circle of friends of familiarity with a weekly (if not daily) dose of reassurance we are on the right track. Challenged and inspired. Sometimes creating pendulums swinging drastically to and fro. But it is not what keeps the soul safe. Sometimes it's not enough to keep you attending and serving the Church. What keeps the energy and fire in the belly is beholding JESUS together and alone! And JESUS is not often Front and Center in everything explored and presented. Well at least not a noncondeming GOD that loves you just the way you are. My heart goes out to these beautiful people in these XSDA internet sites. Many are still trying to find their way in this world and now finding similar thinking comrades embolden them and solidifies their thinking. In our approach we foolishly think a good argument is what is needed. They need to loved on into the Kingdom. One approach is to find commonality as Paul looked for when presenting the Gospel. Acts 17:16-34 ... Every Soul is Precious in His sight!. I learned the hard way that a soul is not just a missionary project.or a castaway.

some are bitter... some are just truly searching.. I was a member of FAF for a time when I wasn't in the church.

HCH, I do find you're 'wiggling' quite amusing. Your way 'catch 22' statements certainly leave you a way out because they are so convoluted that most of us simply do not want to 'straighten' them out. USA from JerUSAlem, that is a real good one. Like I said '4 corners of the earth', world is flat.

HCH said below: What HCH said below is a misunderstanding of the work of a translator. A translator is supposed to consider the verbal meaning of the word, phrase, sentence, as that meaning exists in the language being translated. Then the translator is supposed to take that meaning and chose a word from the language to which the work is being translated that best represents the meaning of the word in the original language. This is not an exact science. In any language words typically have multiple meanings. The word chosen from the language to which the work is being translated will probably not have the same exact meanings that the word had in the original language. The result is that any translated work is likely to be imperfect.

HCH said, or quoted another person as saying, below: I am totally confused by his statement: 1) Yes, one Hebrew word for lightening is "baraq." But, according to Youngs that word is never translated in the book of Isaiah as lightening. 2) The Hebrew word translated as "heights" in Isaiah 14:14 in NEITHER "baraq" nor "bama." Rather the Hebrew word used there is "bamah." 3) Yes, the two words differ by only one letter. But, that makes them two different words with different meanings. E.G. In the English language there is a major difference between the words Cat and Cato. They only differ by one letter. But they are not the same. 4) The English words heaven and heavens have been translated from multiple Hebrew words. None of those words are either the Hebrew words "baraq" or "bama." 5) I doubt that HCH claims and substantial knowledge of Biblical Hebrew. But, I will suggest that he should have investigated more deeply the source of the passage that he cited/referenced. 6) That passage, as HCH referenced it, is both confusing and factually lacking.

(Sounds like someone I see in the news everyday lately!! There are many others, but he's at the top!!)

FAF Yes, I noticed..... Look, I too was embittered, but then I realized it was my fault for making Ellen White the final word when she clearly didn't make herself that. And yes legalism is a terrible experience...you have no peace, no assurance and it makes you mean and bitter.