Leaderboard

hey no problem Wanderer i was not offended in any way.

When i was struggling to come to church, i called the pastors wife, who was a conference paid bible worker teamed up with her pastor husband. I asked her to pray for me and please pray with me once a week. she said yes she would and hung up... no prayer. i was in deep darkness and just hoping for some support. she never called back over a week later I called her again and said, you never called to pray with me, and she said she would and she was sorry and she hung up again. after waiting again for over a week, i called her again, and said you never called and prayed with me, and you hung up without praying for me. She was very sweet saying we pray for you, and i said, i am sorry but i get the idea that you feel if you pray with me you are wasting your time. She got tense and said with this emphasis WELL! you ARE mentally ill. i was not suffering anything any medication could help, i was suffering from a break down from emotional pain... and i replied, what if i am not mentally ill but just very injured. She hung up and i felt the door shut and the darkness settle around me, i lost the hope i had in my church. I had been an organizer of women's ministries, i had served as an adult Sabbath school teacher, i felt awful. I would have become bitter and angry if not for a neighbor I had just a couple years before. She had had her own break down, and her adventist church failed her. When i, her unknowing adventist neighbor, went to visit her to connect with her, she laughed in scorn and sarcasm, and offered to read me her hate poems she wrote for the adventist church. I was overwhelmed and didn't know what to say. I was out of my comfort zone and completely unprepared. this filled my mind and i realized this bible worker was out of her comfort zone and unprepared to deal with someone in deep pain. So, by divine grace, i forgave this Pastor's wife, and i knew my previous failure had prepared me to be protected and saved from worse suffering from this failure of this pastor's wife. It was over 10 years later before i would have the strength to be in church again every week. I have often wanted to speak with her again and fill her in on my journey. I have wondered if the Lord had taken her over any paths that helped her be more prepared to relate in such circumstances. May we all grow and learn.

The entire 19th century in the United States was a time of religious ferment and change. Unitarianism was formally organized in 1825. The LDS (Mormon) denomination formally organized in 1830. The Jehovah’s Witnesses trace their background to Charles Taze Russell and the 1870s. The Advent Christian Church formally organized in 1860 and the Seventh-day Adventists in 1863. In addition there were Utopian groups such as the Oneida Community (1847) and the Brook Farm Association (1844). Whitney R. Cross discusses this period in his 382 page book The Burned Over District. This book concentrates on the years from 1800 to the 1850s in the area of West Central New York State. One-hundred seventy-two years ago this past Saturday an event happened (October 22, 1844) that is of great interest to students of church history in the United States. It was on that day that the so-called Millerite Movement cane to a crashing end. Christ had not come. The Millerite Movement had achieved some success in Europe, primarily in England. But, in the United States it had achieved major standing. William Miller was a Baptist farmer who came to believe that Christ would return sometime during the 1843 – 1844 time period, which ended on October 22. Both the Advent Christian and Seventh-day Adventist denominations trace their foundations back to the break up of the Millerite Movement. A major video that is focused on the Millerite Movement, its break up and events that followed was released Saturday. It is in two versions. One is full length, for showing to an audience at one time. The second divides into six (6) segments that can be viewed separately. That six segment version has been placed on the Internet. It can be viewed at: https://telltheworld.adventist.org/watch Then click on Watch the film. That will bring up the 1st video. From there you can watch each succeeding video. While this video was independently produced, it had major support from the SDA Denomination. The first two segments deal with William Miller his message of the soon return of Christ. The middle two segments deal with what immediately happened after Christ failed to return. The last two segments continue on with the story. This video has been professionally produced. While it is told in story form, it is historically accurate in its major parts. Anyone interested in American religious history should consider watching this video as it provides an interesting story of what was once a part of our religious history.

2016-1903 is 113, and 2016-1914 is 98. You wouldn't have to be over 120 to have been alive when it was being built. Only 98! And that's not too old...if you ask my grandma.

I fully agree that the issue is about the role of scriptural authority in the church. The issue is are you willing to study the words of scripture to understand what the Bible writer was saying, or do you want to just grab the words that a superficial reading makes it appear like it is supporting your view and use your imagination and tradition to interpret scripture. Are you going to follow the methods of those who believe that Paul was clear and concise that the dead go to heaven at death and that Paul did not want us to continue to keep the Sabbath. Or are you willing to study Paul in his context?

This morning after the Sabbath sermon, my wife and I were sitting at a table at the potluck. In the conversation, it came out that my wife and I had once lived in Panama. Immediately one of the men asked me if I had lived there while the Panama Canal was being built! I could not contain myself as I informed him that I had not been born during the time that it was being built. My wife attempted to encourage me to restrain myself. But, I was unable to do so. I just laughed and laughed and laughed some more. Well, his wife got on the Internet and informed us that work began on building it in 1903 and ended in 1914. Well, it would be nice to be 120+ years old, I guess. By the way, I understand that the U.S. government has extablished 120 as the maximum age a human can reach. I have not checked it out. But, let me know if you know of anyone who is older than that.

Debbym: Thank you for taking the risk to share what is a deeply personal and emotional experience. Indeed it is a risk, for not all will understand. I can only say: In our humanity, not everyone can work with everyone. That does not mean that the fault lies with the person seeking help. I can not work with everyone. There are people whom I need to refer. In doing so, that person should not be considered to be at fault. As a matter of fact, no one may be at fault. It simply is our humanity.

It is times like this that bring to mind that message of 1 Cor 13: You can have every spiritual advantage but each and every one is NOTHING without love. Love is what conquers. It endures, it thinks the best, it helps bear infirmities.

Thank you, Deb, for your testimony! Your experience is an example of where the rubber meets the road. We just don't know what a person has gone through, but for many a gesture of kindness or sympathy or encouragement can be life-changing and empowering. Even the most steadfast members undergo stresses that are too big for them. It is NOT too much to seek a helping hand and prayer for God's presence at times. The battle they are fighting is a noble one. I am glad you were able to pull out of the mess you were dealt. Too often we church members chase them right out of the fold.

For most of us, there will be many summers to come. There is still a great deal of time left before the final events take place. Generations will yet come and go before we might see any of them happen. And none of the predicted evil things ever have to happen. If we run instead with the "extremely good news" of the (four) angels' message, which really can change the world overnight. Let's focus on that, rather than on all the evil things which predictably may be done by and because of those who oppose such extremely good news.

Ah, the blessings of Mary Jane! Just kidding of course.

Hahaha. You're right. Does it help that our house was filled with marijuana last night...the neighbors were smoking it and for some reason our house absorbed it all. I was out of my mind. We are doing all we can to get rid of the smell today. The attic fan is on, the air conditioning running, the fans are all on, we have air cleaners in every room going. (It was awful. Just awful.) My husband (lucky guy) gets to go on a trip for the next 4 days. He won't have to deal with the smell. I already know all to well that my grandmother is a liar and a cheat. Doesn't stop me from giving her full-time care; but I don't have to ask her if she's a liar--I already know.

Yes, people are leaving the community within the church. I found often that members who leave the church do not stop believing in the Sabbath and the Bible in general. They just do not have any friendship, or a church family bond. Their prayer life faded before leaving, they do not have inspiration and strength to practice their faith, they find they are not being witnesses anymore. When you do not have a church family to bring your friends to... you lose the structure of witnessing and bringing others to Christ and to baptism in the church. Those no longer attending become the forgotten child in the family. There is a wonderful glow in the heart of the newly baptized, a warmth and new life... the honey moon period. Too often when that fades there is not enough support to keep growing faith. Then there is various causes of alienation, the wounding attitudes by the staunch members, the power struggles in committees, the fear and controlling in the church where members are holding to church without a loving connection to Jesus. Then there is mental illness, like depression, health issues that cause one to disappear from church attendance, abuse in the families of members, and the member never comes back. Some come into the throes of being an adolescent or young adult and not finding their needs met. Then there is divorce, families who cannot come to the same church, and family fights keeping people from being in church together, and addictions that weigh people down, and the business that drops prayer and bible study out of the life... and sports obsessions, politics, and the entertainment industry, gaming, internet and media preoccupation, and porn. this is just a small slice of factors that lead to lost members i am certain. what is the answer to all of these? The power of God in the lives of the members providing every need, wisdom, strength, worship, praise to God, joy, Hope, Faith, and Love.

I see religion as being static, a set of information proscribed by a church or an institution, comprised of creed or beliefs, or doctrines. I see spirituality as relational, something dynamic alive and growing. Meaning may also readily become cataloged in that static stack of what is religion as soon as it is determined and added to the fixed and compiled. Raison d'tre seems to be something so easily springing from the ego and satisfying the ego... what is my importance. It seems to me that spirituality is about experiencing being moved by higher impulses, being engaged in a relational dynamic greater that one's self . But in my experience to reason with God is something that occurs through moments and brings responses of hope and comfort, assurance, cleansing, and humility. what amazing loving, understanding, kind, restoring, and healing God.

i have not been reading this thread, and glanced through it today. I hope you will be ok HCH, as time rolls on, and what you have believed is not proven as you expect.

I have thought that the word religion used to refer to one's faith. Now it seems religion refers to the brand of faith. You didn't take on a person's religion because it was what was in their their heart. this was sacred domain. Now religion seems to be defined as what is in your head, and spirituality is what is in your heart. There seems to be less sense of the sacred ground of a person's conscience and inner sanctum where only God and angels would tread. This is how there is spiritual abuse. I think spiritual abuse is as common as any other kind of abuse, because if you do not recognize spiritual boundaries you can most likely be blind to many other kinds of boundaries. Only Jesus had every boundary in place within himself, in His relationship to His heavenly Father, and in his relationship to all people, and all His creation. And as Jesus comes into our hearts he brings those options to us, that we would not otherwise see.