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Hermeneutics are very powerful in determining how you derive is truth from scripture. i have observes people deriving truth from scripture in a very superstitious way, or a very dramatic free association of one scripture to another, selectively ignoring other text. i have seen approaches as if the whole bible were such a mysterious strange concoction of expression anything anyone wants to think or believe the bible says they will find it. I have also seen this with people who approach the bible to utterly ridicule the possibility the scripture even has truth. There are many ways to find oneself in a ditch and off the road, and getting nowhere in understanding God's thoughts towards us communicated in Scripture.

Nope, not leaving and still a supporter of WO. So , will you attend or be a member of a Female ordained Ministered church?

I guess I missed where folks said they would leave the church if they didn't get their own way...

There are several threads out there proclaiming universal salvation, Samie - most of them dominated by you. If you want to talk about the Trinity doctrine, please join in. If you want to talk about (your) doctrine of universal salvation, please use one of the other threads.

Here we go again Samie. Inserting your teaching that God has already "saved" all mankind, and that He "saved" them on the very day that Adam sinned. This thread is ABOUT the nature of the holy Spirit. Who or what, is the Spirit with us.

See: http://atoday.org/friedensau-adventist-university-responds-to-unity-in-mission/ An interesting comment form the above documents follows:

Totally agree, Deb! There can be so many variables that apart from the Holy Spirit it is amazing to get any agreement!

Sometimes, we think too big when we think "exotic vacation abroad." Why not look a little closer to home for your next international vacation? We give you eight reasons to put Canada at the top of the list for your next trip. http://www.smartertravel.com/photo-galleries/editorial/reasons-why-canada-should-be-your-next-international-vacation.html?id=968&all=1

The actual statement may be read here: http://www.thh-friedensau.de/wp-content/uploads/2016-Statement-on-Ordination-Friedensau.pdf The above statement challenges present SDA practices related to ordination as being extra-biblical (my word).

I believe it is the young people who are leaving... and they were never really quite here. They are making up their mind, and a church that is not relevant, and closing doors on them for preparing to serve how they experience the Holy Spirit leading them.... they will go and serve the Lord where he leads. and it is not just the WO issue that we are losing them over, although that is one. EG White speaks of the masses who remain outside of the sda church because of the unconverted in the church, who feel they are great Christians. They are so offensive and misrepresenting of Christ that the children of God outside of the church would not survive if they joined the church.

HEY ALL Today NOV 24 is Thanksgiving Day---- i hope all have a good time with family and friends dgrimm70

Exactly!! Its just amazing that all we can do is give out labels as to who is this and who is that!!!!

Both 8thd Day Priest and JoMo have commented on Samie inserting his views on a doctrine unrelated to the purpose of this thread and suggested that he take that discussion elsewhere. On the one hand, that suggestion is appropriate. Probably most people would want a thread to continue on in discussion as to the main purpose. However, I am probably a bit more liberal on this point that others may be. In discussions people who are discussing the main issue often make comments that are tangential to that main issue. In my thinking, when that is done, it is appropriate for someone to comment on that tangential issue. When this happens, the appropriate response is for people who do not want the main issue to be side-tracked to simply ignore that tangential comment. As I review the posting, I believe that Samie commented on a tangential issue that 8th Day Priest introduced in a comment that she made. Therefore, while I understand why Rachel and JoMo might want the discussion to go off in that direction, I believe that Samie was justified in responding to that aspect of Rachel's comment. So, as I said, simply ignore it and let it die of itself.

I am concerned about the trinity doctrine because it is one of the obstacles that prevents religious Jews from accepting Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah. The Scriptures and the Jews emphasize the unity or one-ness of God, while modern Christians emphasize the three-ness of God as taught by the trinity doctrine outside of Scripture. The Jews may be correct, or the trinitarians may be correct, or both groups may have drifted away from what Scripture really teaches. If trinitarians were going to effectively take the Gospel "to the Jew first" (Romans 1:16) as the apostle Paul did, it seems that some of the issues would need to be resolved in a Scriptural way.