Leaderboard

It turned out that Friday the 13th was pretty fortunate for me. My mom saw an ad in the local paper for a car being offered on a two-year lease at a local dealership for a good price. So I got my brother Bill who lives nearby to take me. It took a long time, and we discovered it would cost more than the ad said because I was not coming off of a previous lease, but they finally got me into a 2017 Chevy Cruze LT (light silver-grey). It has so many modern features--rear camera for backup, key-less remote start, high-res digital display screen on the dash, Onstar, WiFi! The dealer smiled and said, "Welcome to the 21st century!" Actually, when I got home finally, I was pretty tired, and somehow forgot how to turn off the car. I had to read the owner's manual. Finally I realized: "Oh yes! there is a big Start/Stop button on the dash." I decided not to drive it to church until I am better acquainted with the car. This is definitely the nicest car I have ever been allowed to drive. Now when the check comes from the insurance company of the driver who hit my previous car (and was ticketed), that will help to pay for the increased costs. And after two years, I can lease another new car for about half the cost. Have I told you my theory about Friday the 13th? Some people wonder where the tradition that Friday the 13th is unlucky got started. My suspicion is that Satan started it. He is the one who views Friday the 13th as unlucky--for him. Why? 13 is the sum of the numbers six and seven. Six is the number that signifies man, because man was created on the sixth day of Creation Week. Seven is the number that signifies God, because God created life on earth in seven days, and ordained the seventh day as the Rest Day that would forever be the Sabbath for mankind, in commemoration of Creation. Since Jesus is both the Son of God and the Son of Man, the sum of 7 and 6, 13, symbolically represents Jesus our Savior. Furthermore, Jesus was crucified on Friday. That is what signaled the final death knell of Satan's kingdom--when Jesus went through with it, despite all the horrendous treatment that Satan incited humans to heap upon Him, hoping to break Him and turn Him aside from His purpose. So we humans should regard Friday the 13th as a supremely "lucky" or fortunate day for US! It signifies our Salvation in Christ! It is the sign of Christ's victory for us on Calvary! Whenever we have a Friday the 13th, we should celebrate it as "Salvation Day!" Ron

I have neither an Android nor an iPhone.. I'm not one of those 1/3 of SDAs who make over $100K per year.. lol

The previously unpublished letters and manuscripts are available for use in FolioViews, the program that runs the EGW CD-ROM and can be downloaded on the link you provided, the direct link to the "infobase" is: https://media2.egwwritings.org/nfo/LtMs.nfo The advantage of this is that it using the same program many are use to using and works when there is no internet connection. It is also very fast to search. I have found it works in the 2008 and 2014 versions of the CD-ROM. Also note, you can download the CD-ROM program for only $15. That link is here: http://ellenwhite.org/cdrom

I believe that many of these folks are on the right track, but we have a different angle on the lake of fire. They say they wish to spend eternity there because they believe it is the presence of God, the "everlasting burnings" of Isaiah 33:14. We hold that the everlasting burnings is the presence of God and this is one and the same as the unquenchable fire. God, the consuming fire, is the unquenchable fire. The lake of fire is the great final conflagration when God takes everything out of existence by the cessation of His word, of His power that sustains all of nature. Notice that the beast, the false prophet, death and hell are all cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20; 20:14). These are abstract entities. It is like saying "the Clinton Foundation" was thrown into the lake of fire. With everything being taken out of existence, all evil institutions and their results are to be gone forever. Yes, bodies will also be in the lake. But they will have already expired. God isn't throwing anyone alive into a vat of molten sulphur.

Hi Samie, and thank-you for your civil dialogue; it is truly appreciated. I enjoy talking to nice people. Your question is a good one and I am happy to share some thoughts on it with you. The resurrection is certainly not anything akin to passive wrath, hiding of face, giving over, as you say. It is an act of God. The life of Christ is the source of their resurrection, though they do not acknowledge Him. What gives God the right, under the terms of the great controversy (freedom of choice, non-coercion, demonstration of love on principles of righteousness, not physical power) to impose a resurrection upon those to whom Satan has a total claim? It is because this is unfinished business. Yes, they are Satan's and they are brought back for the last act. Would Satan cry "foul" on this? Apparently not. He is happy to have all of his army again, especially at one point of time. They are his last great hope of victory in the great controversy. They are given over entirely to Satan right from the moment of their resurrection. Satan has all power to deceive them and he does. He claims that he resurrected them, he tells them a story of how he has been robbed of his place and that the tyrant is over there in the city with His followers. He backs up his stories with miracle working power, healing the infirmities of the resurrected wicked. In this unfinished story, the wicked must be brought to a full awakening of the choice they have made. As the scene progresses, war preparations are made for the attack upon the city. The day comes and they march. I believe it is noteworthy that just as they begin their march, Jesus issues the command to close the gates of the city. Think about that. They are not given a new probation, but then again, they are not looking for one. The gates are opened but they will not go in. That place would be torture to them, as we read in inspiration. Then comes the coronation of Christ and the great white throne judgment scene and everything is brought out from the books of personal memories and the records of history. This is the time of fire from God out of heaven. The presence of God burns into their souls as fire, like this: "As soon as the books of record are opened, and the eye of Jesus looks upon the wicked, they are conscious of every sin which they have ever committed. They see just where their feet diverged from the path of purity and holiness, just how far pride and rebellion have carried them in the violation of the law of God. The seductive temptations which they encouraged by indulgence in sin, the blessings perverted, the messengers of God despised, the warnings rejected, the waves of mercy beaten back by the stubborn, unrepentant heart--all appear as if written in letters of fire" (GC 666.2). This is the time when this experience begins: "We read of chains of darkness for the transgressor of God's law. We read of the worm that dieth not, and of the fire that is not quenched. Thus is represented the experience of every one who has permitted himself to be grafted into the stock of Satan, who has cherished sinful attributes. When it is too late, he will see that sin is the transgression of God's law. He will realize that because of transgression, his soul is cut off from God, and that God's wrath abides on him. This is a fire unquenchable, and by it every unrepentant sinner will be destroyed. Satan strives constantly to lead men into sin, and he who is willing to be led, who refuses to forsake his sins, and despises forgiveness and grace, will suffer the result of his course" (ST, April 14, 1898 par. 13). The eyes are all opened in the great white throne judgment. All of humanity is brought together at the same time to take part in a common war against God and provide this revelation to the universe and to themselves of the nature of the course of their lives and the inevitable results of it. Further, they will realize fixedness of their choice and that it is by their choice. The next thing that happens is a breakout of war as the damned turn upon Satan and upon those most powerful agents he has used to deceive. I do not see that they actually get their hands on Satan or come against him physically in any way. Satan and his angels are spirit beings. The Bible says they turn their sword against the beauty of his wisdom and thereby defile his brightness (Eze. 28:7). This would be his deceptions, his ideology. Being totally unmasked for what he is, they do not follow him into battle. His kingdom is lost forever, having no subjects to lead. I can see that at this time all of nature is being let loose, as well and the fires that were unleashed in the seventh plague will resume. In all of this upheaval, each one will come to the point of giving up the struggle. The level of wickedness will determine how long before they give themselves over. Some perish quickly. Others "burn" a long time (in the unquenchable fire experience). I have no way to categorically state that none will die in physical fire, because physical fires will be a part of this mix--not as fabricated by God, but as unleashed fires already in reserve in nature. As the wicked give up, it will be witnessed by all the righteous universe that they gave up their struggle and said to the Almighty, "Depart from us" (Job 22:17). At that point, nature's fires may burn them, or they may go down in the battle that is being waged on every side, or they may even commit suicide. One thing I do not believe for a moment is that God simultaneously injects healing power into them for the purpose of sustaining them to receive physical torture. Imposed physical punishment is inconsistent with what God is purposing in this final demonstration and it is inconsistent with His character for it attributes to Him the principles inherent in human systems of justice which are: 1) restitution--which is eye-for-eye and is also impossible in this situation because they cannot pay back for what they have done by physical suffering; 2) vengeance--God does not do hurt-for-hurt retribution; and 3) deterrence--which has nothing to do with securing heart loyalty but is only concerned with non-resistance, with obtaining obedience on threat of punishment and this is fear based. Deterrence precludes love. The events that take place because of the second resurrection are absolutely necessary to the finishing of the great controversy and ensuring that sin never again rises. The onlooking universe will see that the choice to perish was not imposed upon any soul by God but was totally their own choice and that God did everything He could to save them. The fixedness of their choice had to be demonstrated so that their death would be seen to be the result of sin and not of God killing them for being sinners.

HCH, thank you for opening the discussion up to an issue that I will suggest is important. Let us look at the image of Daniel 2: In Daniel 2, the image is described as having: * A head of good. * Chest and arms of silver. * Belly and thighs of brass. * Legs of iron. * Feet and toes of iron and clay. * A stone that demolishes the image. Each of the above is further explained in the chapter. E.G Nebuchadnezzar is represented by the head of gold. If we believe that the Bible is sufficient to explain itself, it is very important to note what the Bible explains and what it does not explain. We can state with confidence that Nebuchadnezzar is the head of gold because the Bible says so. But, it is just as important to note what that Bible does not explain. The Bible does not state: * That there are two (2) legs. * That there are ten (10) toes) * That there are five (5) toes on each leg. I know of people who attempt to give detailed discussions of all three (3) of the above on the basis that people generally have two (2) legs and ten (10) toes. Because the Bible does not give that detail, it is not justified for us to attribute prophetic importance to such issues and to do so goes beyond the Bible. Yet, I know of people who think it proper to do so. such is reading into the Biblical text what in not there. NOTE: We can not say that everyone has two legs and 10 toes. I have a relative who has eleven (11) toes.

HCH, I can only

Christians who were burned as human torches, and thrown to lions in the arena, or beheaded by ISIS, would be placed in LOWER positions simply because they didn't have the right DNA. I can't believe that.

I agree that we Gentile believers are grafted into Israel and will inherit the Kingdom. However, I can't help but suspect that ethnic Israel could somehow hold a special classification in the Kingdom. Those who accept preterism and supersessionism (replacement theology) as "Gospel" need to seriously reconsider their worldview. Christian Gentiles did not "replace" Israel as God's chosen people, we were "allowed" in by the grace of God. The future everlasting King of the universe will be a Jew; and will sit on David's (who was also a Jew) throne. We will keep feast days and Sabbath; and will obey all that the Lord has commanded (those commandments being given to us through Israel).

As to the Bible predicting that someone would die in Iran: I suspect that on any day of the year, at least one person dies in Iran. I do not believe that one needs to assert a claim that the Bible has predicted one death in Iran on any day of the year. On another issue: What if President Elect Trump would die before January 20? The Electoral College has met and Donald Trump is now the President Elect. If he were to die before January 20, the 20th Amendment to the Constitution would rule. In that case the Vice-President Elect would become President on January 20.

Yes, your idea is wrong. The body of Christ consists of those who believe in Christ. Abraham is the father of all who believe, according to Paul. Paul, throughout his writings keeps pointing to Abraham. If your idea were correct, why would Paul be using Abraham as *the* example of justification by faith? Think of the tree illustration that Paul uses in Romans 9. The tree (another metaphor for the body of Christ) already existed, but entities were moved on or off according to what? According to faith.

In every place in Scripture which speaks of the body of Christ, the context is believers. It is believers which constitute the body of Christ. This is what "body of Christ" means. This is so well known and understood, you can find it in Wiki! In Christian theology, the term Body of Christ has two separate connotations: it may refer to Jesus's statement about the Eucharist at the Last Supper that "This is my body" in Luke 22:19-20, or the explicit usage of the term by the Apostle Paul in I Corinthians to refer to the Christian Church... Saint Paul the Apostle spoke of this unity of Christians with Christ, referred to in the New Testament also in images such as that of the vine and the branches,[9] in terms of a single body that has Christ as its head in Romans 12:5,1 Corinthians 12:12-27, Ephesians 3:6 and 5:23, Colossians 1:18 and 1:24. If we look at the 1 Cor. text, we can see Wiki is correct: We can see this refers to believers, as these are they who have been baptized, and have spiritual gifts. This is written by the same author, in the same letter, and there is no controversy as to what this verse means. When one believes with the heart, one is justified. This is justification by faith. Whatever Paul is intending to say in Romans 5:17-18 must be in harmony with what Paul wrote here. How do you reocncile these two? Your idea of Romans 5:17-18, as I understand it, would have to set aside Romans 10:10, so would seem to be false on the face of it. As for individual justification in the 2nd Dimension, that occurs for an individual the instant he commits sin: He is spontaneously justified, because Jesus was raised for our justification (Rom 4:25). There is no such thing as "spontaneous justification". In 1 John 1:9 we read, Yes, Jesus was raised for our justification, but what does this mean? It means Jesus was raised so that we could be justified by faith. I think this is a universal reading of this text (outside of yourself, of course). For example, let's see what Waggoner has to say. He has quite a lot to say on this text. I just quoted a small amount. It can be found here: http://www.1888mpm.org/book/romans-chapter-4-believing-god-s-tremendous-promise. This is actually quite an interesting verse, and A. Graham Maxwell discusses it in depth here: http://www.pineknoll.org/audio-resources?media_group=MMROMANS66&show_dropdown=0. This is a great site if you like listening (these are recorded talks). One thing you're not discussing, and I don't recall your ever discussing this, is repentance. There must be repentance on the part of the offending party. There is a tremendous amount of Scritpure on this point. I don't know why you think that there can be forgiveness without repentance. What do you think the role of repentance is on the part of the sinner? To mention a few texts that come to mind off the top of my head, Psalm 51, The parable of the Publican and the Pharisee, The parable of the prodigal son. Romans 2:4 tells us that the goodness of God leads us to repentance. What do you think this means? Do you think repentance is necessary? If so, why?

God can only offer faith to people. He can't really give it unless it is accepted by the recipient. Gifts don't have to be accepted. When faced with a choice of believing or not be lieving, the recipient is faced with either accepting or rejecting the gift.

His believing was the response. It's like this: 1.God loves <- this is God taking the initiative. 2.Man responds <- this is faith, or believing, man's response.

You can't discuss a question about the timing of faith without having a definition of faith. Also I sort of doubt anyone else wants to play, so you're stuck with me. But if someone else joins in, I'll watch.

What God does is to provoke a response. The goodness of God leads us to repentance.

If we accept the definition that faith is a response of man to the love of God, then your question becomes did God give man a response before or after he responded. You should be able to see this question doesn't make sense.