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Sin was imputed to Christ. It was an act of God as much as it was an act of Christ. In fact, it was Christ who went in to the Father to make the offer of Himself, in the everlasting covenant. He could not have died otherwise. This is no wise makes God the slayer of His Son. It was the principle of sin, which is the separation of the soul from God, in whom only is life. God's withdrawal from Christ was the imputation of sin. He chose to do this, for us, and for the securing of the universe by the demonstration of the principles of two opposing kingdoms, one based on love and freedom, the other on force and deception.

Interesting.

Let loose and sent mean the same thing. In Biblical parlance, sent means allowed, given over. There are no dual modalities of wrath. It is always the same. God's "decision" is His judgment. It is not arbitrary. It abides by strict evaluation of the choice of the free moral agent. When the line is reached, God knows it and Satan's claims must be honored. Satan says, "they choose me." God sees that they are choosing him. God must abide by freedom of choice, for this is the foundation of love and His character and government. Uzzah would have been given over. Satan had claim. Satan would have slain him, making it look like God did it. In this, he delights. He can easily hide behind the bible language, here, and the unsuspecting sheep see a fire breathing monster God. Again, the principle: "...the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some, in order to further his own designs; and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them” (GC 589.2). In the flood, God gave the world over to the forces of nature. They worshipped the creation rather than the Creator, so they were allowed to have their God. The water mantle condensed because the power that kept it in suspension was withdrawn. There is reason to believe that events in the sun and moon did this. The integrity of the earth's mantle was also given up in the great changes that took place as God was sent away on a holiday. So, God "causes" all of these things, in the sense employed by Bible language. But not by the application of power, rather, it is the withdrawal of power. Never arbitrary. Always by a strict code of honor.

Thanks. I gave you verses. We read them differently. So, then, can't you move on? That love of argument runs strong, doesn't it?

You bring all this wonderful evidence, dear APL, but do you think those who have ears and eyes will use them? These folks WANT a God who does these various cruel and unusual punishments, manipulating by His power of force, the natural world, as weapons, to strong-arm Pharaoh like a mafia "protection" scheme, to poison the stomachs of the murmuring people, and myriad other such bizarre phenomenon. What a God! Is that YHWH that does these things? NO! He gave them over to their chosen leader, Satan, who loves to do this stuff and make it look like that is what God does! It is not that people cannot see the principles and learn to read the language for what it means instead of what it is apparently saying. They just don't want to. We can bring evidence until the cows come home. Makes no difference to them. What good is a God who doesn't seethe like a volcano, roll up His sleeves, and get the job done? Awesome God! Thunder in His footsteps, lightning in His fists. So YOU better be believin'.... "...the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some, in order to further his own designs; and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them” (GC 589.2).

Moses faithfully set before the people their great sin. It was God's power alone that had preserved them in "that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water." Deuteronomy 8:15. Every day of their travels they had been kept by a miracle of divine mercy. In all the way of God's leading they had found water to refresh the thirsty, bread from heaven to satisfy their hunger, and peace and safety under the shadowy cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night. Angels had ministered to them as they climbed the rocky heights or threaded the rugged paths of the wilderness. Notwithstanding the hardships they had endured, there was not a feeble one in all their ranks. Their feet had not swollen in their long journeys, neither had their clothes grown old. God had subdued before them the fierce beasts of prey and the venomous reptiles of the forest and the desert. If with all these tokens of His love the people still continued to complain, the Lord would withdraw His protection until they should be led to appreciate His merciful care, and return to Him with repentance and humiliation. {PP 428.3} Because they had been shielded by divine power they had not realized the countless dangers by which they were continually surrounded. In their ingratitude and unbelief they had anticipated death, and now the Lord permitted death to come upon them. The poisonous serpents that infested the wilderness were called fiery serpents, on account of the terrible effects produced by their sting, it causing violent inflammation and speedy death. As the protecting hand of God was removed from Israel, great numbers of the people were attacked by these venomous creatures. {PP 429.1} Now there was terror and confusion throughout the encampment. In almost every tent were the dying or the dead. None were secure. Often the silence of night was broken by piercing cries that told of fresh victims. All were busy in ministering to the sufferers, or with agonizing care endeavoring to protect those who were not yet stricken. No murmuring now escaped their lips. When compared with the present suffering, their former difficulties and trials seemed unworthy of a thought. {PP 429.2} The people now humbled themselves before God. They came to Moses with their confessions and entreaties. "We have sinned," they said, "for we have spoken against the Lord, and against thee." Only a little before, they had accused him of being their worst enemy, the cause of all their distress and afflictions. But even when the words were upon their lips, they knew that the charge was false; and as soon as real trouble came they fled to him as the only one who could intercede with God for them. "Pray unto the Lord," was their cry, "that He take away the serpents from us." {PP 429.3} ---------- We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. But when men pass the limits of divine forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown which yields its unfailing harvest [cause and effect]. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan. The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1} The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon His law. Dark are the records of human misery that earth has witnessed during its long centuries of crime. The heart sickens, and the mind grows faint in contemplation. Terrible have been the results of rejecting the authority of Heaven. But a scene yet darker is presented in the revelations of the future. The records of the past,--the long procession of tumults, conflicts, and revolutions, the "battle of the warrior . . . with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood" (Isaiah 9:5),--what are these, in contrast with the terrors of that day when the restraining Spirit of God shall be wholly withdrawn from the wicked, no longer to hold in check the outburst of human passion and satanic wrath! The world will then behold, as never before, the results of Satan's rule. {GC 36.2}

That sin slayed Christ and that He voluntarily laid down His life are not mutually exclusive. He volunteered to become man's surety and when that plan was executed, God gave Him over to the results of sin. Did your sin and mine slay Christ? Yes, or no? I say, "Yes," they did. Everybody here knows I am right. Do I get a badge?

2 Cor. 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. Isa. 53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Cor. 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Isa. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1 Sam. 15:23 For rebellion [is as] the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness [is as] iniquity and idolatry.

You can doubt if you wish. That is your choice. Christ gave us the true picture of the Character of God which reveals how He deals with sinners. See John 12, John 14, I'll let you figure out the verses. In dealing with Sin and demonstration of the results of sin, see 2 Thessalonians 5, Romans 7 and 8, 1 Peter 2. As for the Cross, certainly you can find those verses too. But it is clear that there is not much I can say to convince you and I really do not see that as my Job for it is not I that is convince you, that it the work of the Spirit. Rejecting the work of the Spirit however has cause and effect consequences. Good Luck brother...

I’ll do my best to be non-partisan in my remarks below. Some have wondered if the election of Trump and the threats to the inauguration would have prophetic significance. I would suggest that we tend to blow current events out of proportion, simply because they are what we know and our fears for the future […] The post Thoughts on the Inauguration and Bible Prophecy appeared first on Jon Paulien's Blog. View the full article

I am not out of topic. Apparently you either love arguing so much OR you just aren't smart enough to understand a simple statement and how it applies. I'm done.

Samie your verbiage feels contrived for the love of debate. Not interested. Are you looking for a badge in a contest of who is right? God, by your insistence, has an "active" participation in all that happens. Granted. It must be so. The holocaust was God's active participation. The crusades. The Lisbon earthquake. The death of your grandparents. But while God is "responsible" for all that happens, He is not to blame. It is His universe. He has the power to stop any and all suffering. However, God cannot actually do all that He is able to do in terms of having the power to do it. He does not act outside of who He is. For then He would cease to be who He is and everything would change. We would have a God that is just like Satan.