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Derek: You have raised an issue that is exceedingly complex, often misunderstood and misunderstood by SDAs. I will make a very brief response to certain aspects of this doctrine: 1) Sanctuary in heaven: This is not to be understood as a building composed of bricks and wood. God speaks to us in human language and we on earth have not accurate idea related to buildings, etc. 2) A central component of this SDA doctrine is that at all times we live due to God actively giving us the power today to live. 3) Judgment: It is not humanity that is the central focus of the judgment. It is God. God is on trial before the created beings of the universe. Back in the beginning of time, there was a rebellion in heaven. A being we now call Satan rebelled, charged God with misconduct and proposed that people given freedom of choice would chose to reject God and follow his. This Earth has been the working out of that rebellion. At the cross, it convinced the unfallen universe that Satan was a false leader and God was right. Now in this time of judgment, God is showing the universe that those who will be translated into eternity to live forever with God have had the propensity to sin removed from them and they are safe to save. 4) At the same time it will be shown to the universe that those who will not spend eternity with God have exercised their freedom to chose whom they will spend eternity with, God of Stan 5) Then for eternity God will remove HIs life-giving power from those who do not want to spend it with God and with that life-giving power removed they with all who have sinned go out of existence. Derek: In short, the focus of this doctrine is on God, not humanity.

If my last name is the same as the president, it does not follow that I am directly or even indirectly related. Just because one worships on the 7th day of the week, does not make them SDA. Our beliefs, what ever the number, make for an SDA. There are others who choose to worship that day and believe in the 2nd advent, they are not considered SDA's. I find it rather specious to try and tag everyone who believes the same as us on those two or even more issues as being SDA's. By trying to claim Biblical persons as being SDA the effort is to make us seem more superior or legitimate. Christ taught extensivly against such an attitude.

Spiritual abuse, within the SDA Church happens. It cannot be dismissed. The first step in dealing with it, is to recognize that it exists.

my ex-boss would *love* your words... Until you've been in the shoes of someone to whom spiritual abuse has happened, you've no idea of what might have occurred. There is no attempt made to discredit the church as a whole. The abuser can be such a smooth-talking, trust-provoking manipulator that the "victim," though wondering about the legitimacy of the suggestions/orders/judgment, accepts the words of the abuser as God-given and the *right* thing to do, and follows through with the "suggestions".... It is only *afterwards* that it sinks in what actually happened. And the "victim" ends up feeling like cr*p for having been so stupid, so gullible, so trusting, to have done exactly what the abuser had wanted him/her to do. And the abuser goes merrily on his way, having gotten exactly what was wanted and keeping his little religious skirts clean while turning the "victim" into the "culprit"... yeah... browbeat that into the heart of the "victims" .... Let them know that, of course, any TRUE Christian worth his salt wouldn't have done such a bad thing. Make the "victims" feel even worse about themselves and the situation. Don't bother to find out what *really* happened. By all means, blame the "victims" — because, you know, it's the Christian thing to do.

He'll be missed for sure. What a talented person!

Within a God believing reality, what is the ultimate purpose of human life? Many would answer: To lead others to Jesus. To witness. To evangelize. To evangelize and witness we must live on a fallen Earth - where there are others who do not know God. Created in God's image, before the fall, what was our purpose? Alive after sin in the New Earth, what will be our purpose? Once we know our past and future purpose - that for which we were created - it stands to reason we should live with that as our ultimate purpose now. So, what is the ultimate purpose of human life?

Worship Any created being able to comprehend their nature as both created by God and loved by Him has but one response. Worship Created in God's Image, we more than other creatures, have reason to honour Him. We understand God's love for His children, His passion for life and His care for creation. Worship We worship God by loving Him and others, living well, and caring for creation. Worship Like the angels around the throne, the only response in God's immediate presence is, "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God almighty - who was and is and is to come." Worship It was our purpose in the past. It will be our purpose in the future. And, it is our purpose now! Worship

To answer this you have to think of the other worlds which are populated with perfect beings. We would have been intended to serve the same purpose as they were. However, God was still hampered with the case of Lucifer and his followers and there needed to be a way to destroy them. There had to be a way to show the world what sin is and how devastating it is and how it couldn't be allowed to fester in His perfect creations. If our world didn't sin there would have to be another and another until one world gave in to the devil. We must be here to witness to the worlds God's fairness.

Not sure that its something that's just happening now. Back when I was a teen and going to a Jewish Adventist church, the pastor, Dr JM Hoffman did evangelistic meetings for Jews in the NYC area. Never once did the advertisements mention that it was an SDA church that was sponsoring the event. But we never covered up on the building that we were an Adventist Church!

Total darkness for THREE HOURS as the result of an eclipse? Impossible!!! So all this checking as to when an eclipse occurred does not settle when Jesus died. The record clearly says He died on Friday, the Preparation Day, and rose on the first day of the week.

I have wondered about that too, but maybe that's where the sign took place because that's where the most intense interest in the Second Advent was and had the most meaning.

If it was me, I'd want to know who is sponsoring an event...

Jesus ate the Passover after sundown - ON Nissan 14. Jesus was arrested later that same night, STILL Nissan 14. The "day" begins at sundown. He suffered whipping during that same night - STILL Nissan 14. He died the afternoon following (before the sun set] - which was STILL Nissan 14. The command from Exodus was that the Passover was to be EATEN on Nissan 15, after the sun set. Passover was the day the lamb died - NOT the day they ate the lamb. The day they ATE the lamb was the "Feast of Unleavened Bread". Jesus ATE the Feast of Unleavened Bread on the 14th [after sunset] rather than on the 15th. But would the priests at the Temple have prepared the meat in the proper way for Passover [no bone broken, to be eaten whole] if it was sacrificed on the 13th, rather than the 14th? I believe they would have, because the rulers had extended Passover to TWO DAYS, to accommodate the millions of worshipers who flooded Jerusalem for the Feast, by this time in history. There were not enough priests to complete the sacrifice of all the lambs on one day. PS: There is much commentary (with Scripture support) coming out recently, saying that all sacrifices were boiled - rather than roasted, AFTER the Israelites crossed into the "promised land". Just google it.

When I tell my patient/brother, "If you love your wife, your children, your little baby, you will/should/must stop smoking/drinking/doing drugs/dividing the church/etc. Is that medical/spiritual abuse?

And don't say that Christ's WILL was the same as God's will. There were two separate WILLs operating - two individuals. Jesus prayed, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." (Luke 22:42 NIV)

Gustave, What WOULD BE did not come about because God Himself MADE IT come about. Foreknowledge is NOT manipulation to make things turn out as He predicted. Our God is NOT a manipulator. That would mean humans do not have FREE WILL. FREE WILL means that Jesus could have chosen to sin. Foreknowledge means God knew that Jesus would not choose to sin. You are teaching predestination - that my salvation (or not) has already been determined by God who has willed it. Islam teaches this too, that it is impossible to resist the will of God, and God has already willed the individuals who will go to paradise and those who will go to Hell. You are saying that God had already willed the victory of His Son, and Christ could not resist the will of God.

Mr. Trumps claps all the time! When he gets up to lecturn, after he finishes his speech, when he gets off the lecturn. Have you noticed any county leaders doing like Mr. Trump? Only one I know is the dictator of North Korea, Kim. He does clap like Mr. Trump. Is there any similarity in personality?

Gerry asked in the quote below: * Spiritual abuse may come from individuals and it may come from the denominational organization. * Drawing on a legal background, denominations have been required to pay damages for the actions of their clergy. * I am personal aware of a child who was taught to lie in the name of the Lord, in order to do the work of the Lord! That was spiritual abuse. * You ask about someone doing something in the name of the Lord. Well, we humans often are deceived as to what God is asking us to do. See the next one above. * Another case, of which I am aware: A young woman attended an evangelistic series and took Bible studies. As a result she decided to join the SDA denomination and she made major changes in her life. In this process, she became pregnant with the Father being the person who gave her the Bible studies that brought her into SDA membership. In her condition, she went to a female SDA employee (employed in ministry) and asked for advice and help. The result was that a letter was circulated to the women in the congregation informing them that she should not be allowed to be alone with their husbands. Folks that was spiritual abuse. * Yes, spiritual abuse always has an individual, aspect. But, we live in a society where organizations are held responsible for the actions of their members. In this context, the SDA denomination has at times spiritually abused another. We should not be complicit in this by dismissing such as solely an individual matter.

Uh, the Bible is not speaking to SDAs then?

Yes, of course sweetie, you may come to my throne anytime you need to for learning gentleness, quietness, kindness to foreigners, an even temperament and proper etiquette in public protocol.

Why are you letting your strong misogynist feelings stop you from shaking my hand respectfully?

I don't make giant leaps in logic. There were no SDA's in the Bible...as popular as that concept might be!!!

Is it spiritual abuse when under God's direction one of His children does this? NIV84 | ‎Is 58:1 “Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins. "

Like the time that a camp counselor told me I was going to hell! I could quote other wonderful things that were thrown at me. Personally, I don't blame the SDA church for that, I blame individuals!!

The "beloved" SDA teacher that molested my son was also just quietly transferred to another SDA school across the country by the church while my son was "shunned" (in the Amish sense of the word) until he left the church out of discouragement and ended up blaming himself for the abuse.

After I was baptized, my boss (who happened to also be an SDA minister and the company president) used spiritual abuse to bully me into doing things I didn't want to do. It was horrible. Over the course of my employment, he cheated me out of over $50K, as well as bullying me into helping him participate in Medicare fraud of well over $200K. Horrible. By the time I was convinced (by a pastor and counselor) to dump that job, I was a basket case. It was after that experience that I vowed to never EVER let anyone anywhere use spiritual abuse against me ever again. And by the way, that company folded, and my ex-boss went on to work again for the SDA church.

That poor lady had abuse at home AND at church! I hope that one day she found a better husband and a better church. So sad!

I'm loving the answers! I have a one word answer (as the Wanderer suggested I might!) that encompasses many of the answers here. I'd love to hear a few more of the ideas from club members before dropping my word. Not that mine is any better - just that it often kills great questions when then questioner answers too soon!

I think my purpose is to be good; to be happy; to enjoy the world and the people God put here for me; and to be not a stumbling block in the process of others doing the same.

No one attempts to hide the truth. Truth is progressive and it musts be laid upon a foundation that is Jesus Christ. The One Project (TOP) attempts to reach people who feel a need to be better grounded in Christ. TOP is not intended to teach the so-called 28. That must come later and after a foundation in Christ. If you do not feel a need to be better grounded in Christ, do not attend.

In the process of salvation there are sequential steps. There are early steps that must be taken prior to the later steps. This is exactly what the Bible teaches, but some who have been in the faith for some time fail to recognize that others do not have their level of spiritual maturity. Paul faced this same criticism (in general terms) that is leveled against The One Project. Writing to the Church at Corinth, Paul said first: I could not address you as spiritual persons as you were worldly and mere infants. You were not ready for solid food. I had to feed you milk. [See I Corinthians 3:1-3] Then Paul went on to discuss the spiritual growth process that should take place. Paul planted the seed. But, Apollos cultivated that growing plant and God developed it. As Paul said, both he and Apollos had the same purpose. [See 1 Corinthians 3: 6-8] Paul then goes on to say that he (Paul) laid a foundation and another person erected the walls and the foundation that Paul laid was Jesus Christ. [See 1 Corinthians 3:10 & 11] There is a time for preaching the three angels messages. We are living in that time. But, the Bible is very clear: The First and Second Angels Message must be proclaimed prior to the proclaimation of the Third Angels Message. [In support of this see Revelation 14: 6-12] Note that the Second Angel is stated to follow t he First and the Third is stated to follow the Second. We do spiritual harm to people if we give them the Third without the First and the Second. When we do that we demonstrate that we do not understand a fundamental Biblical principle of the process of salvation. That principle is that spiritual growth is a process of step by step. The One Project has one simple focus: Make Christ the center of one's life, belief and practice. It is a process that is centered on two (2) days. In that very short period of time it can not bring people to full spiritual maturity. For anyone to think that it could simply demonstrates that they fail to understand how spiritual growth takes place. The One Project exists due to the fact that the Seventh-day Adventist Church has people associated with it who are not centered in their life, belief and practice in Christ. Green may be correct in his statement that The One Project does not teach some Biblical teachings that are important. But in making this a criticism, Green either misunderstands the Biblical process of salvation and spiritual growth or he misunderstands The One Project. Take your choice. In any case, the Lord has assigned a task to all. [See I Corinthians 3:5] As The One Project accomplishes the task given it, it is a fellow worker of God. [See I Corinthians 3:9] NOTE: In my references to Biblical passages, I have not quoted any of them exactly. I have stated them in my own words. Please review them in your favorite translation if you want to see the exact Biblical words.