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There are Messianic Jews, who are still Jews!! They don't consider themselves to be christian. Its the foolish rules of the Jewish nation that says those that believe in Jesus can't be Jewish. I was born Jewish. but was not brought up Jewish, or I should say my father, having spent 5+ years in 3 different concentration camps wanted nothing to do with God or Judaism. So we never did any of the Jewish festivals, etc. Do I consider consider myself Jewish? Absolutely, but I am a SDA! Which doesn't take away that I was born Jewish. I'm not sure any of that makes any sense to you, it does to me!

See: https://atoday.org/secular-campus-ministry-in-new-york-special-event-on-sabbath-may-6/ The author of the above article is a committed SDA Professor on a secular college campus. As such he has led out in organizing the SDA students for mission and ministry at the college where he teaches. NOTE: Today, May 6, 2017, he has a large ministry outreach going on. This man tells it like it is. He is clear in telling the denominational leadership how the SDA Church is failing to equip and use the SDA students in campus ministry. But, he is putting into action the advice that he is giving. He speaks form a decade of experience. Agree with him, or not, his article is well worth reading.

Great article!

Samie has been talking like there are only TWO conditions of men - in relation to God. 1. "saved" (in the Book of Life, "in Christ", destined for eternal life) 2. "lost " (destined for destruction in the Lake of Fire) In his understanding #1 universally comes BEFORE #2 I'm saying that there is an in between state. 0. ignorant - undecided - not yet saved or lost I believe this state ALWAYS COMES BEFORE either #1 or #2. And the blood of Christ DOES COVER all men during their ignorant/undecided stage of being. God will judge their state of ignorance, and just WHEN they had enough evidence upon which to base belief (resulting in obedience) or rebellion. If Samie wants to say that all men are therefore "in Christ" because they begin life "covered" by His blood, so be it. But I will NOT agree that all are "saints" or "the church" or "born again" or "born of the Spirit" or "written in The Book" for Eternal Life.

Jesus said, "I am the light of the world. He who comes to Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." So - where were men BEFORE they came to Christ? Answer: "in darkness". We must "come to" Him, in order to "have the light".

Easy. By ASKING to be attached through faith. Jesus' answer is always yes; if we just ask and follow His bidding. Not behavior management; but trusting on the spirit of Christ to gently lead us to His will for us.

Thank you, Gregory. It's good to hear there is some flexibility in some places, allowing persons who desire baptism without membership to go ahead and be baptized by an SDA pastor in an SDA church. Perhaps the concept will grow.

Most interesting and enlightening!

Those are good reasons for a church, DebbyM and Wanderer, but it doesn't explain how formal membership in a church enhances one's ability to participate, except for rules made by the church for members-only participation, and our church isn't very exclusive in that way. The SDA Church places high value on membership but so far I haven't seen any clarity on what membership does for the member -- except for a discount for your lodging at camp meeting time and a discount for your children's education in an SDA school. I have seen "loose" membership churches (i.e. regular attendees are called members, no formal acceptance required) -- nondenominational or independent -- gather funds and do phenomenal things for others in their own community and for missions across the world. Membership isn't necessary for such activities. Such participants may pledge to help with this or that project, but it is not the same as being a card-carrying member. You can associate closely and worship with others, week and week, and not need membership credentials to do it.

Yes, we all belong to the Family of God. But many will be EXPELLED from it for not overcoming evil with good. Their names will Christ Himself blot out from the Book of Life. Do you actually hear yourself Samie? You say the entire world and every human who was ever born into the world, was born already "in Christ". Then I point out, that God is calling us to be SEPARATE FROM "the world" and "the nations". He wants to "sanctify" us - which MEANS "to separate from" or "to make separate from". Why would we need to SEPARATE FROM "the world" and "the nations" IF we are already "saved" ? There would be no need to separate.

That again brings up the problem of our baptism policy -- automatic membership when baptized. I've known perhaps a handful of people who wanted baptism but didn't want the membership. Some chose not to be baptized in our church because of that policy, and some were baptized (after a Revelation Seminar) and voted in, even though they had asked not to be made members. I don't know how they came to be baptized without understanding how our church does it. The Sabbath they were baptized was their last Sabbath in church. They were very disappointed that their wishes were not followed. We use the terminology, "baptized into the church," when the person is actually being baptized into Christ. Even our long-time members -- maybe especially our long-time members -- are confused about the meaning of baptism. This baptism/membership issue has come up repeatedly for years. Is there a possibility that this matter will ever be considered for amending?

I have felt that we should offer some thing like this for a long, long time. I'm glad to hear others proposing it as well. Thank you Gregory. Oh, another aspect of this is to invite pastors of other denominations and their family to come and worship with us in a way where they don't have to be the pastor and pastor's family, but just worshipers of God a chance for rest and spiritual growth.

i do love how the Lord stretches me to see Him as bigger and bigger, greater and greater, and merciful and loving yet concerned with every particle of my being in thought, and action, and in just being. He wants to bless me and my nature does not naturally seek Him or love Him, but he reaches me and touches and changes my desires in the most gentle and pure ways.

For the nth time Samie. We DO NOT do it "without" Him. He is the one who SENDS the evidence. He is the one who came to show us the Father's love. He is the one who created us with intelligence, and the ability to choose. You Samie, want Him to DO everything FOR us - including choosing FOR us and believing FOR us. But that's NOT how it works. There IS something for us to DO. We must respond - choose - believe - surrender. When a man proposes marriage, he CANNOT say "Yes" FOR his intended bride. She must say, "Yes".

Walter Veith is one of the best all around out there. I'm a conspiracy "scientist" so to speak and when all is brought to light I think you are going to find the hellishness that is in the events are not what is painted by the controlled media. Deceiveing the "sheeple" is the name of their game. We need more like Walter Veith and I thank God for the true watchmen still on the wall. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.