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I visited this week: Yosemite Falls, Yosemite National Park.

That whole passage is interesting in context. Your verse is found in Paul's description of those "having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power." In contrast to that, in the next paragraph (2 Tim. 3:10-17) Paul commends Timothy for some things: following Paul's own example in various aspects of life continuing in what he had learned since he was a baby from scripture (Old Testament) Paul then prescribes the whole Old Testament as the antidote to the problems mentioned previously. In direct relation to the trinitarian doctrine we should notice that the man of God can be complete and wise with only the Scriptures that existed when Timothy was a baby (the Old Testament) along with Paul's testimony about Messiah and the example of Paul's lifestyle. Neither Paul nor the Old Testament ever used the trinitarian vocabulary of "trinity", "God the Holy Spirit", "triune", "third member of the Godhead", "three-in-one", etc. etc. Notice that Paul attributes the inspiration of the Scriptures to God's breath. As a child learning from the Old Testament from his Jewish mother, Timothy would never have been exposed to the concept of "trinity" (except perhaps in relation to the pagan gods), yet Paul urges Timothy to continue in what he had learned from childhood.

TribeofJudah, You seem to have two concerns. You are concerned about the future of you young children, and you would like to know who the 144,000 will be. Personally, I would be very glad to "sleep" through the "time of trouble". The sleep would seem like only a moment. But if I am called to endure through that time, then Christ will sustain and strengthen. Who are the 144,000 - of Israel? First: It all depends on just who are Israel. Some define "Israel" as only those of Hebrew descent from Jacob. Others - like me - define "Israel" as living branches of the "Olive Tree" (Romans 11). Only those who believe in Jesus Christ are drawing life from the "holy root" of that Tree. Faith in Jesus determines whether one is attached to that Tree - not DNA. The 144,000 come from EVERY TRIBE - not just from Judah. So they are NOT all Jews. There is a study on this topic on my website: Here's the link. http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book Chapters/18b-Israel-Part II - Who are Israel.pdf Second: The 144,000 were seen by John, "standing on Mount Zion". This need not be a literal standing. It could be spiritual - like Hebrews 12:22. The writer of Hebrews 12:22 said "you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels". He said this to those who believed in Jesus Christ. He was not saying they had literally come to the New Jerusalem. He meant they had joined this community, and that this location would be their sure and certain destination. He meant that they stood with the true God of Mount Zion. Third: If the number is symbolic rather than literal - then other possibilities present. The 144,000 are all "virgins" - meaning they can marry the High Priest of Israel. They are the "bride of the Lamb". They are pure and worthy, their past sins having been washed away. They can enter the place He has prepared for His bride - the New Jerusalem. That City has 12 gates, and over each gate is the name of a tribe of Israel. 12,000 from each "tribe". If "Israel" consists of all those who worship Christ as Lord and Savior, then the whole would BE Israel redeemed. Fourth: The 144,000 are called "first fruits to God and to the Lamb" (Rev. 14:4). The "first fruits" were not necessarily better than the rest of the harvest - quality wise. They were just harvested "first". First fruits implies a greater harvest to come. The bulk of the harvest is the "great multitude which no one could number" (Rev 7:9). The people of this "multitude" are from "all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues". The people of this "great multitude" stand before the throne. They have palm branches (symbolizing victory) and they are clothed with white robes (symbolizing purity and righteousness) which are white because they were "washed in the blood of the Lamb". So these people are redeemed. The "great multitude" have "come out of the great tribulation". This could be the last great "time of trouble" OR it could be that Heaven regards this entire earth experience down here, tempted and persecuted by Satan, slowly dying, etc. etc. AS "the great tribulation". Certainly no such tribulation has occurred anywhere else in God's universe. The 144,000 and the great multitude have gone through it and have come out victorious. Another very interesting point is that these people of the "great multitude" "are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple." Only priests could ENTER the Temple of Yahweh. And only PRIESTS could be serving in His Temple. This means the people of the "great multitude" will be part of the "first resurrection". Rev. 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years." Fifth: The 144,000 is the answer to the question posed in Rev. 6:17. "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" The 144,000 stand - with the Lamb, on Mount Zion - on THAT DAY - the day when God's wrath is poured out. That is judgment day - the DAY when Christ returns to execute judgment. My conclusion is that the 144,000 will be those who are living to see Christ come. The "great multitude" will be those who are resurrected by Christ at His return. Just my opinion, based upon my study - up to this point. Someone here may show me texts which suggest other views.

TribeofJudah said in the quote below: Whatever the so-called tribulation is, no one will have the strength to withstand it on their own. God will be at their side giving every person whatever strength that they need. We humans are never our savior. Christ (God) is always our savior.

Hey ToJ, I'm not gonna post it here; but take a look at Rev. 7. It describes two groups of people - the 144,000 and the unnumbered multitude. From the context, I believe that the 144,000 are ethnic Israelites - 12,000 from each tribe. There may or may not be members of spiritual Israel in that group - those Gentiles who through adoption and "grafting in" (See Romans 11) become the seed of Abraham. Rev. 7 then goes on to describe a great multitude that have also come through the tribulation into the Kingdom. I'm not "laying down an immutable truth" here; just stating my opinion. The below is (IMHO) an immutable truth - we serve a God of life who wants to save all those who love Him - not a god of death who wants to torture and kill everyone who breaks the smallest jot and tittle of his rules. If we believe that Yahweh is God, and that faith in the sacrifice and blood of His Son Jesus Christ saves us, and maintain that faith through the tribulation, we will be saved. God doesn't save us because we are good; He saves us because He is good. Jesus didn't come here to make bad people good; He came here to make dead people alive. Being "good" is a (wonderful) side effect of having the Spirit inside of you and following the impulses It gives you.

From Calaveras Big Trees State Park, this week.

JW's are masters of one-on-one evangelism. They faithfully go door-to-door passing out literature and inviting people to in-home Bible Studies and church. People who "take the bait" are frequently invited to members' homes for dinner and parties (an much as JW's party). I was on the verge of being baptized as a JW when I was turned on to the Sabbath. They had no satisfactory answers as to how Sabbath got changed to Sunday; so I eventually became an SDA. JW culture is similar to SDA culture; so I still count JW's as friends; and am always cordial to them when they come to the door. I even had one in my Bible Study at work! She became a sold-out Jesus freak after about a year in our study - went totally charismatic. I personally don't think younger people have the stamina or time for a 4 to 6-week, 5 or 6 nights/week commitment to a traditional SDA evangelistic event. I also don't think younger people are as interested in a denomination as they are in Christianity on a more global basis. I don't try to turn people on to Adventism when I witness; I try to turn them on to Jesus.