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I personally think it is interesting to see what people use in the Bible to form their beliefs. I think we all continue to debate the subject because we are all passionate to learn more about the nature of Him (or They) whom we worship. I personally am not a staid Trinitarian. But I don't truly "know" that I am right. I may be wrong, but I don't think Trinitarians "know" that they are right, either. Both sides "believe" they are right. They "believe" they are right because there appears to be strong Biblical arguments for both sides; and both sides avoid the evidence for the other side. As I've said before, none of us truly "knows"; and it won't be until when we shall know as we are known - when we no longer look through a smoky glass; but see clearly into the divine realm. I believe we are all committed to following and worshiping God - whatever form He has. That being the case, when we get to the Kingdom and everything is clearly explained to us, none of us will have a problem with the "facts" we learn once we get to the Kingdom. Plus, it beats the heck out of debating WO, Jesuits, or homosexuality - for me at least.

The topic of the trinity is not new on this site, is comes up every now and then. My question has been and still is, what impact, if any, does a correct view, what ever that may be, have on being a follower of Christ or salvation. We have a new group discussing this so am interested is what the current view is. Not attempting to shut down the dialogue, just curious as to why it seem to be so important.

To continue First -- Canada right now (at least in my part of Canada) is covered with a foot of fresh white snow. We sang in church today: "Whiter than snow" when Christ washes us we can be whiter than snow. The whole world is white! Frost on all the trees shining in the sunlight. Pretty -- except a little hard to drive in -- but a good set of winter tires helps in that aspect. And I have to shovel the stuff after sundown -- good exercise. But back to "holy Ground" THE TRANSFIGURATION During Christ's life on earth, having taken on humanity, the glory of His Divinity was hidden, but on the mount of transfiguration, His Divinity was revealed. Those three disciples caught a glimpse of the majesty and awesome holiness of Jesus Christ. In the presence of His Divinity, the ground upon which He stood was "holy ground" because -- Jesus Christ is God. He is God manifest. And the Father declares that Christ is One with Him -- His Son. 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. It was a foretaste of what would take place in the future Phil. 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Someday everyone will confess that Christ is truly God, and bow down to worship Him. And yes -- they are worshipping Christ. And since God the Father and the Son are of One mind in all the plans and outworking's of the plan of redemption. The glory given to Christ is equally given to the Father.

Confusion seems to reign as to the history of the doctrine of the Trinity: * Arius is the priest, not Arian. * Arius was born sometime between 250 and 256 AD. He died in 336 AD. * Arius served as a Bishop in Alexandria, Egypt. * Arius was condemned by the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. * The Jesuit order was founded by Ignatius of Loyola, on September 27, 1540. * The Pope authorized the Jesuit order several years later. * Arius was never a Jesuit priest as he died more than 1,000 years before the Jesuit order was founded and authorized.

TrevorL wrote: "Angel means messenger " That is correct! The problem of course lies in the fact that the word "angel" or "messenger" can be used in different ways. 1. The created heavenly beings that surround God's throne and are sent as messengers, guardians, and other missions to earth. Also known as cherubim and seraphim. 2. The word can be applied to people who are entrusted with a message (as we see in the letters to the churches in Revelation which are addressed to the "angel" of each of the churches. 3. The word "angel" as in "messenger" can be applied to ANYONE, heavenly or earthly, with a message of importance. So -- the problem is that people tend to limit the word "angel" to definition #1, but the bible does not do so. THE STORY OF JOSHUA Joshua 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Are you for us, or for our adversaries? 5:14 And he said, As the captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest [is] holy. And Joshua did so. Notice -- first Joshua say "a man" (but this was no ordinary man). Who was He? The ground where He stood was holy! Joshua falls down and worships Him! Not a word of rebuke concerning this worship comes from this Being Who has come to direct the battle. He is worthy of worship. The verses declare that He is the captain over all Jehovah's hosts. Go to Rev. 19 and you will meet Him again. It is none other than Christ, and He is God, one with God the Father. He is God manifest, personally bearing the message from the throne of God to the created humanity. Rev. 19:16 And he has on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. WHAT ABOUT ANOTHER JOSHUA? You'll find the story in Zachariah chapter three. In this prophecy of Zechariah we see Satan's accusing work, and the work of Christ in vindicating His people. The prophet says, "He showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord An Angel? How is the word used here? he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment. And I said, Let them set a fair miter upon his head. So they set a fair miter upon his head, and clothed him with garments." No, created being, even those we think of as the angels surrounding God's throne, has the power to forgive our iniquity and clothe us the garments of righteousness, This glorious messenger iis none other than Christ, and He is God, one with God the Father. He is God manifest, personally bearing the message that He will cause our sins to pass from us, and clothe us with His garments of righteousness.