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Gustave, Miller message was false. But, it was not a lie. The word "lie" has the connotation that something was either intentionally false or intended to deceive. Miller believed what he proclaimed. Therefore, while his messaged was false, it was not a lie. By the way, yes Miller's message originally began in the Spring of 1843 and later moved to include a period of time that ended in the Fall of 1844. But, that time period was a 12 month period that simply changed from Spring to Fall. That is why the October 22 date is called the Great Disappointment as that date ended the one year period of time.

Rachel has raised a very important point. God does not need to investigate in order to figure out who is saved and eligible to spend eternity with God, and who is not saved. God knows. The so-called Investigative Judgment (IJ), is not focused on God in that sense. The plan of salvation, in its beginning was focused on the false charge that if God actually gave His creation freedom of choice. The Investigative Judgment is an examination of the record of the candidates that assures the created, intelligent, beings in the Universe that they have freely chosen to spend eternity with God and that if they are allowed to do so, sin has been so eliminated that they will never choose to sin. In it the Universe that needs to have this assurance. God does not. God knows. We who it is commonly stated are being judged, do not need to fear for our salvation. It is fixed and certain. With the end of the IJ, the Universe will also have that assurance.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness." (NIV) Should not God's "solid foundation" also be SDA foundational doctrine? If HE knows those who are His, then He does not need to "investigate" !

Waaaay over my head.

Obedient unto death

It is common for SDA congregations that are in an early stage of growth to rent space in a Sunday-keeping Protestant church in order to hold services in Saturday. Ihave been the pastor of such congregations. It is common for SDA congregations to rent their building to a Sunday keeping, Protestant congregations for them to hold services on Sunday. I have been a member of congregations that did that. All of the above is well within denominational policy. If it was not, the local Conference could take action to stop it.

The message was false. It did not happen. It was not a lie as all believed it and did not knowingly proclaim what they knew to be false. By the way, SDA historians could, if they wanted to do so, point out an inaccuracy in your statement in the post above. But, that would not make you to be a liar as you have no intention to decieve. It would only mean that you were inaccurate in a minor detail.

Digression continued: actually there is a more fundamental problem with our genes than the sun, and in fact that problem is why the sun causes damage. Over half of our DNA is non-original, composed of transposable elements (TE). See: Transposable Elements. The Sun causes damage most likely in areas of TEs where there is a higher concentation of T and A base pairs which only have a double covallent bond vs a triple at the G and C pairs in the DNA. There is even a hypothesis that all disease, including heart disease, cancer, autoimmune and ultimately all aging and death is a results of TEs in the DNA. As for abortions and assisted suicide, I for one could not participate in them, but cannot judge those that do. I have many friends and colleagues that have participated in these procedures. I certainly would not want to have a miserable life prolonged by artificial means.

Ellen White said she wasn't a prophet, she said she was MORE, much MORE than a prophet. Ellen's visions were simply things she copied from other writers which she didn't give credit to. The Investigative Judgement Doctrine was the final theological mechanism used to justify Miller's lie ( that the timing of the 2nd Coming could be known ). Matthew 27, 50: "Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last.[r] At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom". Exodus 26, 34: "And the veil shall separate for you the holy place from the most holy". The sanctuary was one long room SEPARATED by a thick curtain, a veil - a veil that was torn from "TOP" to bottom when Jesus died, leaving ONE COMPARTMENT.

Now, at the time they told us in our original church that they would be forming these groups (of spiritual formation) to take us through these classes to teach us. They didn't tell us what they were teaching, just that they would be, so I naturally went into the church board meetings to find out what it was all about. Well they were planning to teach first the 'spiritual leaders' basically the 'directors' who would lead the groups and they planned on a large number of groups, to make sure everyone in church was indoctrinated or 'trained' in these classes. Everyone had to join a group, and they would meet at various venues, interestingly on Wednesday night, at the same time as regular prayer meeting, so it would supersede that. Well, we had a long time bible study group that I assisted in that would meet on Sabbath afternoon and most of them also came to the Wednesday night prayer meeting. They didn't make any exception, and had one of the leaders of the spiritual formation groups who was also a pastor invite us to his home and try to persuade us to join one of the groups. We told him we already had a bible study group that we were involved in and politely declined. They started the groups, and then tried to put in the 'directors' into all the church offices by bypassing the nomination process. This was our first hint at what was about to occur, as the church members stood up and refused to allow this to happen. The church members asked to form the pre-nomination committee to nominate the leaders and then vote in church or take it to a business meeting if needed to make themselves heard outright on the matter. Well they said the pastor could choose the leaders he preferred and thus they did not need a nominating committee or need the church to elect them as we had done since its beginning and put in these 'leaders'. So the pastor put in those leaders he wanted, and said our nomination would not happen, but he ran into trouble 'training' enough of them so some offices were left empty of they left the incumbent. I have never heard of anything like this, but it gets worse, as when the next nominating period came, the pastor and the church board knew the church members would fight against the methods they had used, so they changed tactics. They pastor said they would just 'rollover' all the leaders from the previous year and this is how they again bypassed the church nomination process. Well by this time the members were seeing that they were going to impose their 'spiritual formation' agenda by any means possible, and they began leaving. As they lost members the church board voted to allow a Sunday keeping group to come in and hold service, so on Sundays you could actually come in and keep the first day as the Sabbath. Some of the church board members, started a Sunday service for the group we had been making sandwiches and soup for, and basically hijacked all the good work we had been doing for the group in the downtown area. It seemed as if they intentionally took all the good work we had been doing and tried to corrupted it, and shove aside the bible study time, to keep any true study from being done. They dragged the church from a regular SDA church to their 'Willow Creek' celebration style church, and push aside or rode over anyone who would stand up to them. I pray none of you ever have to go through this, to be betrayed in such a matter, by those claiming to be Adventist, I can only say it is certainly 'of a most startling nature'...

The Spiritual Formation concepts being brought in are nothing but mystic spiritualism and are destroying the faith of the members and basically infiltrating the Adventist church. Out of our original church or 300 plus, there now may be a dozen show up on Sabbath morning, and many of the members just simply stopped going as it was taken over by the forces changing it into a celebration church. We have come across some of the members at places such as stores, restaurants, events, etc.. and they have quit participating and just stay home and watch Adventist programing they find, or are selling their homes and moving away, or drive to various Adventist churches distances away to see if they have been affected or they are safe to join. Its devastation to see so many of my Adventist friends is such despair and we have tried to bring them to visit our little group, but a lot of them have been so discouraged, that they have just given up. We are having Bible study on Sabbath in the afternoon for the members to try and go over the truth that we have in Adventism, so we are trying to fight back from the corruption that is being brought in, even from the Conference lever, but the damage has been done, and we are just picking up the pieces as we can.