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The thoughts that David evoked from me were, how far do I share the mercy and grace that God has shown me toward others? Do I replicate forgiveness the way I receive it?

Let me commend you for the excellent work that you have done in collecting a number of statements that EGW has made in regard to labor unions. I am impressed. In regard to confederacies: What did EGW mean by that term? It would seem to me that the manner in which you seem to want to apply it to labor unions could also be applied to a person who was employed by a large corporate or governmental system. I do not think that such would be totally unreasonable even if I might challenge that application. After all, in those developmental days of this denomination, workers were needed for the Church, to include the establishment clinical health centers. While it is true that today, our clinical health centers could not exist if they only employed SDAs, in a more general sense, we as a denomination can not possibly employ every one who is a SDA member. Our members are essentially forced to seek employment outside of this denomination. As I look at the various statements that EGW has made on this subject,, to include others that you have not listed, I will suggest that her opposition to membership in labor unions included the following: * Restrictions of what we as a church wanted to do in our ministry: Perhaps (?) one might say that this might be true today as far as it might be related to an attempt to unionize a denominational business? However, the union membership of an individual SDA will have essentially no effect on how a local congregation accomplishes it mission today. * Keeping of the 10 commandments: Well, as in our example, there is an involved labor union which is clearly supporting the right of a SDA worker to keep the Sabbath. I am aware that this has not always been true. But, I will suggest that it can also be said that today membership in a labor union today, does not always mandate the breaking of God's laws. The bottom line is that no matter the position that one may have in society, one must always be careful to stand for what is right. * Robbing to poor of their just wages and employment rights: I find such to be interesting in view of the fact that this is the denomination that once argued in court that it had the right to pay women less than men for doing the same work. In actual fact, labor unions today often defend the employment rights of the poor and support their right to receive just wages. I will not argue that labor unions today are perfect. But, I do not believe that all labor unions of today are ipso facto wrong for SDAs to join. In addition, at all times, Christians should be aware and careful to take stands for the right, even if employed in a SDA institution. SDA employment is not always perfect.

The letter 201 that The Wanderer cited is a letter to which it is not easy to determine the context in which EGW made the statement. The following quote provides some additional context as to EGWs thinking on labor unions. I will suggest that there are labor unions today to which the following sstatement woudl not apply: Do all labor unions today rob the poorer class and prevent them from purchasing and selling? To what extent do labor unions cause people to disregard the entire decalogue?

That may be true in some areas. In other areas, it's not that big of a problem. I have rarely if ever heard of a non-unuin employee at a union shop here in Denver being the subject of union violence. There are still cases of union grievances. I had a grievance written up on me when I was helping a union electrician work on a critical piece of equipment at a power plant (I was an engineer) My hand slipped and my tool dropped into the equipment, shorting out a control unit and tripping a 350 MW electric generator. I advised him to write me up since it was my fault (not his) that the unit tripped. I immediately went to the plant manager and reported the incident to him. He chewed me out good; but then thanked me for letting him know why the generator tripped; otherwise they may have taken days or weeks to find the problem and restart the unit. Otherwise, I have never been at odds with the union. I sometimes even got invited to their happy hours.

So, we assume that such was true in the time that EGW wrote. But, is it possible that today some labor unions might exist for which what EGW stated would not be true? As an example, I can show you quotations that suggest that labor unions hindered a SDA from being free from working on Sabbath. Yet, this labor union clearly seems to support the idea that this person should be freed from working on Sabbath. Context is important. Is it possible that there may be labor unions today that do not represent the problems that EGW mentioned in' her comments? We can look back through history and see where labor unions have been involved in violence, to include murder. We can see where labor unions called upon their members to strike. What if we found a labor union that in its entire history had never called for its members to strike and had never been involved in violence? By the way such labor unions do exist.

Thanks, yes, I think people are different, so a simple formula like '2 years no, 5 years yes' or whatever wouldn't work. It would need to be about sustained evidence of change. Humans love redemption stories: how many novels and movies involve someone making a mistake or doing something wrong and redeeming themselves? This might be a slightly different situation than what Gail has in mind, but I think one of the issues around redemption and forgiveness is that Christ redeems and forgives instantly. We call on His blood, and (from a salvation perspective) the sin is as though it never happened. From a human perspective, though, we need to make amends to those we harmed, and demonstrate over time that we have changed and become new people. 'Works' don't contribute to salvation, but they are very important in seeking redemption from others.

I know that there are some members of this forum who live in Northern California, as do I. Today, I will be preaching at the Penn Valley SDA Church, near to Grass Valley. You are welcome to attend. SS will be at 10 AM with the worship service following. I will also do a SS Class where we will talk about leadership.

In the spiritual realm, the statute of limitations on sinful or evil activities expires upon the sinner's confession and repentance. In the physical realm, on an individual basis, it ends when people quit holding grudges. Whether it is Al Franken or Donald Trump, people their "evil deeds" occurred years ago when social norms were different (that doesn't make them right). They should still be forgiven. How many of us have done things in our past that we pray will never see the light of day? People who don't forgive others may face a rough time being forgiven in the judgement.

Some very interesting questions/ideas Dave. I'm taking your thoughts more to be forgiving someone than giving redemption?? I actually find in this day and age that Christians seem to be less forgiving than in any other time in history, or I should say in my short history of living on this earth!! I do agree that Al Franken should never have given up his seat until all was investigated, which they did have planned to do. What I have found is those that seem more guilty seem more likely not to stand down, but to be more defiant. I also believe that, at least here on earth, we need to pay the consequence's of our actions/choice's!! We should also be allowed to grow as we get older, which to your point does seem not to happen, at least to those that are public leaders, etc. I'm glad we have a God that does allow us to repent and change for the better!! I don't have that same faith that people will be that forgiving!!

Went back to the church I visited last week. Same experience - great Sabbath School, great message, an invitation to participate in a food giveaway today, an invitation to throw a BBQ and church service for the homeless in a couple weeks, an invitation to join a small group. This place sure seems to have it going on!

Since Bourdain's passing I have not been able to watch any program with him in it. There are some celebrities whom I sympathise with, knowing somewhat of their struggles that have been revealed. I respect their courage. Chef Bourdain made no secret that he was a former heroin addict. I wondered what sort of pain he had been carrying. Another death that touched me was that of Chester Bennington, who had been sexually molested. It makes me think of how deep some wounds are.

Let me give you an example of a situation that is probably different from that of the time in which EGW wrote. The labor union of which I am thinking about has a very large contract with a major organization, that has been agreed to by both the organization and the labor union, which provides for the following: * In cases of discipline, employees shall have the right to be represented. They may chose to be represented by the labor union. * in the majority of issues (not all) that affect an employee's working condition the labor union may represent the interests of the employees in negotiations with management. * Both the labor union and management commit to working together to resolve issues in a fair and just way. * The labor union will not strike and in return labor union representatives may represent employees as part of their official duties. What this means is that the labor union representative continues to receive their normal pay for the time spent in representing the employee. In addition, the labor union will be provided with free office space in which to meet with employees--this was a contract with a very large organization. * Specific details were spelled out as to the conditions under which a issue that could not be resolved could be settled by: mediation, arbitration and by an administrative law judge to include how management and the labor union would be required to finance those. In actual fact the details of all of the above and more were spelled out in the contract which I will suggest was a very large contract. But, I will suggest that the tole of the above labor union differed considerably from that in the time of EGW and that the problems that she mentioned did not apply. NOTE: The actual contract I reference above is more than 300 pages in length. For anyone who wants to read it, it has been posted on the Internet and may be accessed at the URL I will list below. In addition, that contract provides for local contracts between management and the union. https://www.va.gov/LMR/docs/Master_Agreement_between_DVA_and_AFGE-fin_52311.pdf

And you know this for a fact! "The "racist" label" You got that right and guess why? The proof is what you said. You making a statement for all Democrats. You must be a mind reader! Because we speak out against inhumane acts you would say something like this and know that we want these people here for some stupid political reason of just voting and not for freedom. Wow! I have been on this earth for 68 years and have always wanted people to vote their choice. Yes, I disagree with Republicans because of the things you have just proven to be true with your "racist label." I stand for religious liberty and freedom of choice. That is my right! I have never wrote like I have now due to Trump and the Republican party going totally against what they claim they stood for. One good thing was the family and I respected them for that! They don't now! I do not always agree with the Democratic Party on a lot of things. What I agree is choice like YAHSHUA gives all of us! Happy Sabbath and be bless!

Again: This is an individual decision. There are labor unions today that are unlike what EGW experienced. The context of her advice is found in the statements where she states why she said what she said. To quote a single sentence of hers with no relation to the total body of what she said on the subject, is to elevate her writings to a rigidity that is not appropriate.

Furnace of affliction ?

I mentioned that Steele is black, because he was writing specifically about blacks in the US. Far as I'm concerned, there is only ONE RACE - the human race. We are all the same color, just lighter or darker shade.

A while back, I was invited to join the Gideon Society. When they found out I was an SDA, they changed their minds because I belonged to a "cult". They said If I changed churches and got official membership in another religion, I could join their club. Kinda reminded me of sprinkling incense before a statue of Caesar. I refused; so they told me I could support them financially without joining. I respectfully declined.

But deliver us ?

Great Poem - 'Sister White said it!' Sister White said it— Well . . . I never really read it, But someone said she said it, So of course it must be so. To prove my point, I’ll quote it, Though I can’t show where she wrote it. But someone said she said it. And that’s all I need to know. It saves a lot of time for me, If I just listen carefully, When others speak of Sister White, And what they say she said— Though I can’t repeat it word for word, I’ll tell you what I think I heard, And quote you things from Sister White No one’s ever read – that really are absurd —Adapted from: Thelma Burton in Adventist Review, January 8, 1998, p. 7. You can find out if she really wrote it! Go to egwwritings.org

It is good and we need to be aware of it, but there is much that she wrote and not always able to remember the source. I like to mention when more iffy, but there are other things such as when for Bible Archaeology class at the Seminary we were sent to the White estate to read an article she wrote that down played the strict 6,000 years and tells us that what ever age we use to see as the age of the earth to just make sure it is fair to scripture. Also, there was when I thought I was just reading for fun in the White estate vault and on topic after topic I read a number of letters between Mrs. White and/or Willie to the pastors who's thoughts have developed into the so-called "Historic Adventism"(last generation theology/Folcrom7) branch of the church. I wish I could turn back time and I would have done a full paper on these letters. I recognize that people who have not read what I read cannot confirm these two issues (although some of it has come out in books such as the biographies of Prescott and Daniels), but on the other hand, I need to follow what I have read first hand.

A neutron star is a very dense star that is formed by the implosion of a large star such as a supernova. A neutron star with a mass 1.5 times larger than the mass of our solar sun, would have diameter of about 20 kilometers (12 miles). One (1) teaspoon of the material that made up such a neutron star would have a weight of about one billion tons! NOTE: Neutron stars were first discovered in 1967 by a Jocelyn Bell when she discovered one that was emitting radiation in the form of a pulsar. That radiation had a periodicity of 1.3373011 seconds. Just something for you to think about when you go to bed tonight. If you are still thinking about it on Friday night, you just might think that the world that God has made is indeed a wonderous one of which we have a lot to learn.

On another important issue: Our modern world works in may ways on a GPS system. It guides our autos on the ground and tells us whether we are in Sacramento, or in New York. It guides our aircraft through the air and tells the airplane whether it is landing at London or at Chicago. This entire GPS system has a basis in part on the time as measured by that satellite and on the surface of the Earth. In order for the system to properly work, the satellites have been programed to measure time 38 microseconds, each day, more slowly than the clocks on the surface of the Earth. Absent that programed reduction in the measurement of time in the satellite, the system would not work. The above is simply General Relativity in action. Thank you Dr. Einstein.

B/WPHOTODUDE that is a interesting poem dgrimm60

GREGORY thank you for posting this===it was very interesting====yes our GOD is a wonderful creator dgrimm60

"All your links regarding Trump are worthless." If they were, why comment? If it bothers you it is because you know that what I am saying is true! "There are so many lies regarding Trump from the left that I have lost count and some of them paid for by the opposition in the last election. And the content of some of the lies paid for by the opposition party were beyond disgusting. In fact, truth almost lies dead in the streets of Washington and is dead in the left wing media." What is with this right and left wing mess. Truth is truth, but if you are delusional you can't see truth. It is funny that these news media's have been on for years and Trump talk on their shows, but all of a sudden they are what "left wing media!" What did they have a baby Trump sitting in for Trump or something? Maybe they painted a talking poster, no maybe he has a twin! You know the story of the piper that play his flute and got all the children to follow him-well he really was Trump. I am being funny because it so unbelievable that all of a sudden all of the news media except for Fox is making up lies-really? See this we so right wing stuff has blinded your eyes. That self righteousness, having a form but denying what is truth, calling it left wing. That is nonsense! "Given that the last election was a difficult one for this country, I am confident that many many people prayed very hard for Trump to win the election. Given the alternative, it was an easy call. How could you even consider someone who would say "what difference does it make?" regarding dead Americans. I will not include a laundry list of other reasons why it was better that Trump won, but it probably wouldn't make any difference to you any way." They pray hard but not to THE MOST HIGH! The Bible clearly says to try the spirit and my HEAVENLY FATHER WOULD NOT put up with a man, who curses, lies, commit adultery not once but continually (and now there is a recording that he allowed to be put out that he is so dishonest and a cheater and lies ). The man that you pray for has no moral. You are right it wouldn't change my mind because I see the man for what he is! Again you tell by his own mouth! Oh, the lies we weave and change wouldn't for would and didn't mettle but then did! Now Russia is going mettle against him! Do you ever listen to all the tweets, do you? I even heard some of them say, they wish he would stop tweeting. Why is that? "However, you may wish to consider: Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.1 Peter 2:13-17 I think you are under heaven's orders to not disparage the current president. You do not have to like the policies and can work against them, but personal attacks are not allowed." I am going to let someone else provide to you the meaning of that Scripture: Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man - Greek, “to every creation of man,” (ἀνθρωπίνῃ κτίσει anthrōpinē ktisei The meaning is, to every institution or appointment of man; to wit, of those who are in authority, or who are appointed to administer government. The laws, institutes, and appointments of such a government may be spoken of as the creation of man; that is, as what man makes. Of course, what is here said must be understood with the limitation everywhere implied, that what is ordained by those in authority is not contrary to the law of God! Albert Barnes And YAHSHUA answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to ELOHIYM the things that are ELOHIYM 'S. And they marveled at him. Mark 12:17 You know I will say it again, I feel that some of Trump's followers are looking for hope because he is rich. Some like him because they think he acts tough. But I know why the Evangelical are following him because he loves Russia. Russia's leader Putin has them believing that they are following Jesus! This former KGB's has really sucker them that they will sell themselves because of homosexuality and abortion. Instead of trying to show people their mistakes with kindness and praying for them and then allow THE HOLY SPIRIT to change them. They are just like Judas selling out their country due to hatred. Judas sold out YAHSHUA and they are too and taking sides with Barabbas. Saying: "Let HIS BLOOD be on us and our children." The Republicans with Trump are doing the same thing. How many people in his office have swindle the funds? How many have left or have being fired? Have the media lie about that too? I watch that Judge get on the View from Fox and she was rude, disrespectful and cursing up a storm back stage. Do you actually think that THE MOST HIGH want this kind of service? All I can say is my heart goes out to you! You made your choice and I have made mines. I want the best for you and I truly don't want to see you hurt. I cannot stand for a man who is tearing this country a part. Satan is behind it because he is trying to stop the prophecies from being fulfilled. YAHWEH is allowing it to wake up those who claim to love HIM! If you do keep HIS Commandments! Blessings!?

Father in heaven. ?

Thank you!I'm happy I found this forum and I know the Lord will deliver me and my family from this situation where in. Yeah I'm just taking this one day at a time please keep me and my family in your prayers.

Mercy and truth. ?

Devotional: Love the truth ❤️

Thank you for this! I'm going through tough times and I was feeling a little discouraged but this made me feel strengthen.

Devotional: Compassion upon us ?

GREGORY thank you for posting this article ===it was very interesting this remains me ot what the bible says about ' "make sure you sins will find you out" dgrimm60

It was Milton in Paradise Lost that has Satan casted to the earth prior to creation. Milton's work has colored our culture. While Mrs. White does not outwardly correct Milton, she does say things that could be used to follow what Revelation tells us, that Satan was cast out after the cross. A big part of his being cast out was that he could no longer find anyone in heaven who would listen to him, and he was uncomfortable with God's glory.

Peace I give ?

“First, I hate everything that Trump has done to this country and people.” I’m sorry you’re filled with hate, but recognizing you have a problem is the first step to finding a solution.

The author is unable to see the forest because of the trees, and thus turns to tradition for the answers. He needs to ask questions like "What is the principle behind this application? Does she see only the application or does she see the principle that could be carried out even if the specifics are not carried out? How is this tied to the issues of the Great Controversy: The 3 aspects of the trinity, the 3 deceptions of Satan attacking the trinity and how God answers these questions? etc.

It seems to me that there are three main options for the faith-based scientist in the science classroom. 1) Teach science the way the average believer in the pew (and some church administrators) want you to teach it, disparaging evolutionary science and scientists, and highlighting only the evidences for creation. 2) Teach science the way […] The post Teaching Evolution at a Faith-Based University (Faith and Science 7) appeared first on Jon Paulien's Blog. View the full article