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The Son of God was "begotten" - NOT created from nothing, from the mind of God, spoken into existence. The Son of God "came forth from the Father". He said so. He existed before the world was created, because He created all things. Then - the Father "brought" His Son into our world, incorporated into flesh. Hebrews 1:6 "And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, 'Let all God's angels worship him.'" (NRS) The Son - unassisted - did not bring about His own incarnation. When the Son of God - a divine being - incarnated to become fused with flesh, a NEW BEING came into existence - Jesus the Son of Mary, and Son of God. Jesus - the man - did NOT exist before. The Son of God did exist before. We speak of His "pre-incarnate existence", but really Jesus (the man) had no pre-incarnate existence. When the divine Son of God incarnated, He was profoundly changed - imprisoned in, and limited by, flesh and blood and bone. He was no longer a spirit being, no longer powerful, or omnipresent, or omniscient. He had to overcome AS A HUMAN - to recover the dominion which Adam had lost through disobedience, to fulfill the terms of the covenant. Having finished that work, He could then be set free from the limitations of flesh. Divine powers could be restored to Him, poured upon Him by His Father.

I'm of the opinion those scriptures are specifically given in order to warn the followers of Christ not be mistakenly led into pursuing an entity not sent forth by God Almighty, therefore seen by only some more privileged humans to follow. Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. God is Love!~Jesus saves!

I believe Christ was warning His disciples against any secret coming, one which did not involve "every eye" seeing Him, in a cloud of glory.

"I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matt 28:20). Considering that the Apostles went in different directions, and Christ was with them wherever they went, and later promised to be "there in the midst of" the smallest gathering (Matt 18:20), that rather convey's the idea of omnipresence. But how can a man be omnipresent? The NT Testament places Jesus - sitting at the right hand of His Father - in Heaven. This is why many teach that the Holy Spirit (believed to be a THIRD divine being/person, has to represent Jesus to believers. My problem with that teaching, is that it places God (as the Holy Spirit) BETWEEN Jesus and man. ITim 2:5 says that Jesus is the ONLY MEDIATOR between God and man. I do not believe that is limited to protecting us from the wrath of God. I believe it means that Jesus is the communicator - communicating God's messages TO us. A mediator does not act for one party only. Folks immediately point to John 14 thru 16, to support the teaching that the Spirit is a THIRD divine being. I have several responses to Jesus dialog about the coming Comforter. But - in short - I believe that Christ was speaking of His coming glorified self. Once restored to His former glory with the Father, He would once again be omnipresent. If not in body, then certainly in mind. He is able to communicate with us. He is there "with us" and He communicates with our minds. He is "in us". His presence with us, is not just a message sent by Him through another being. It is Him - in Spirit. Paul did say, "God has sent forth the Spirit OF His Son" (Gal 4:6). Christ spoke of His glorified self, in THIRD PERSON, when describing His glorious return. Matthew 19:28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth: In the age when all things are renewed, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. " Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory.

We have TWO QUESTIONS. 1. Was the Son of God present through all eternity past, without beginning? 2. Is the Son of God present in all places now and since the beginning of the creation? If you are citing Micah 5:2, here are my comments on passage. Micah 5:2 “But you, O Bethlehem of Ephrathah, who are one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to rule in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days.” NRS Micah 5:2 “. . . . whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” KJV The words “from everlasting” are sited by those who believe that the Son of God had no beginning, but instead has always existed. They believe that He was one of three co-eternal divine persons who together make up “God”. The Hebrew translated “goings forth” in the KJV (Strong’s #4163) means “origin.” This would mean that Christ originated from something, someone, or somewhere. God the FATHER has no origin. Jesus said, “I proceeded forth and came from God” (John 8:42). “I came forth from the Father (John 16:28). From The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament by Harris, Archer, Waltke who give the meaning of “everlasting” as simply “most distant times.” The word translated “everlasting” (#5769) is from a root word meaning “to hide,” thus pointing to what is hidden in the distant future or in the distant past. When the word is used to refer to the past, it generally points to the far distant past, but rarely to a limitless past. In Deut. 32:7 and Job 22:15 the word may refer to the time of one’s elders. In Prov. 22:28; 23:10; Jer. 6:16; 18:15; 28:8 it points back somewhat farther. In Isa. 58:12, 61:4; Mic. 7:14; Mal. 3:4, and in the Aramaic of Ezra 4:15, 19, it clearly refers to the time just before the exile. In 1Sam. 27:8; in Isa. 51:9 and 63:9, 11, it refers to events of the exodus from Egypt. In Gen. 6:4, it points to the time shortly before the flood. None of these references has in it the idea of endlessness or limitlessness, but each points to a time long before the immediate knowledge of those living. My personal understanding is that time began with the Son - when He was begotten. He was the beginning (Jn. 1:1), and He calls Himself “the Beginning” (Rev. 3:14, 21:6, 22:13).

Excellent post Wanderer! Lone Ranger: You are correct in your concern "If Jesus does not posses ALL the characteristics of God, then he is not fully God." And Jesus does indeed possess ALL the characteristics of God and is fully God. The problem is that we try too much to squeeze the trinity, especially Jesus, into a box. And yes, there are aspects of God that accommodates our box, but we need to remember that our box is only a way of us having some comprehension and that God is way out of our box, far beyond our comprehension.

I have question this myself even though I believe in THREE INDIVIDUAL BEINGS! But if every eye shall see HIM, then I suspect that this POWER was return to HIM. When HE return to Heaven THE FATHER said ALL POWERS was given to HIS SON. To me that means ALL HIS POWERS were restored. This is a mystery but I like to hear other views on this matter! Blessings!

Trump is doing what he has alwasy done...fear mongering and division. I call them 'cheese and crackers' parties!!