Leaderboard

FWIW, I wasn't under the impression that you were having a difficult time, or that you were leaving the forum. I just thought you were annoyed with the inundation of "articles" related to WO being posted in the Real Issues area. I'm tired of it, as well. Articles are okay, but they don't really make the forum interesting.... we aren't discussing the articles with their author(s). Indeed, we rarely even discuss the articles with the person who posted them. Kind of odd. If one posts an article you’d think the poster would have a personal comment or opinion regarding said article. If not, then why post the article? Forums are for discussion … it’s not a “news” agency. IMHO. **shrugs**

There is ONLY ONE TREE - in Romans Cpt 11. It's an OLIVE TREE. God called Israel's name "Green Olive Tree" in Jeremiah. The TREE is Israel. The "root" of that tree is holy - so we know the root is Christ. Branches were "broken off" from that tree - for unbelief. Some during the wilderness wandering. Some at the time Assyria destroyed the 10 tribes, - and some when they would not believe in Jesus Christ (who gave them every miracle as evidence of who He was/is). Israel remained. Only branches were broken off. New branches were grafted in (Gentiles coming to faith). Those Gentile believers were every bit part of "the tree" - and still are. The broken off branches could be grafted in again - IF they came to believe. Most did not. Some did (like Saul of Tarsus). There is ONLY ONE ISRAEL - just like there's ONLY ONE TREE. Whatever Jews call themselves, if they do not believe in Jesus Christ as their Messiah, then they are NOT living branches of THE TREE - NOT God's Israel. The promises are for Israel - for the living Olive Tree - NOT for broken off branches. "IF you are Christ's, then you ARE Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promises." Galatians 3:29 IF you are NOT Christ's, then you ARE NOT Abraham's seed, and NOT HEIRS according to the promises. Most here do not share my belief that those who died in various degrees of ignorance, will be raised at the 8th millennium as "the rest of the dead" to learn of Christ and then CHOOSE whether to serve Him as king. I believe all those Jews who, because of their culture and education, did not learn the truth of Christ, will be raised at the 8th Day, to learn of Him. At that time, they will have the opportunity to be "grafted in again" - into the ONE TREE that is ISRAEL.

EGW had a vision of people on the path to heaven. in summary, the ones that made it were 144,000 Adventists. This is a prime example of replacement theology in Adventism. If you believe all of EGW's visions were accurate, then you are a proponent of replacement theology. As long as we're quoting from Romans, let's consider the following: "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” (Rom. 11:1-4) Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! "(Rom. 11:11-12) "If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." (Rom. 11:17-21) Incorrect. A true Jew is a descendant of Judah. A true Christian is a spiritual Jew.

This is a question for people smarter than me. I have read (on the internet, of course!) that SDAs are huge proponents of Replacement Theology (aka supercessionism), which states that Christians have replaced Jews as God's Chosen people; and all the promises God made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have been taken from the Jews and given to Christianity - all because the Jews killed Jesus. Is this true? If it is, how can they say that after reading Romans 11 and Hebrews? How can they say that knowing that a Jew will one day rule the world?

Something to consider about the upcoming 'vote' Not every organization is under US Law. For example, a Church or other Charity in Canada that lets a foreign power take control of them and remove a democratically elected Church leader, as my long-term friend Ted Wilson is proposing, will cause the Church in Canada to either lose our charitable status, or we will have to separate from the World Widebody. I suspect other countries have similar laws.

?

In reaction to the documents being proposed at Annual Council next week, two main possible outcomes seem to be envisioned; peace with honor and massive centralization of church authority with serious consequences. Those who wrote the document (and many conservatives on issues like women’s ordination) hope for the former, that these processes will achieve peace […] The post If These Proposals Are Voted, Where Will They Take Us? (AC18-10) appeared first on Jon Paulien's Blog. View the full article

One of Satan's favorite methods is to take a truth, divide it in half, and deceive some people with the one portion of the truth and to those who see the error in that portion of the truth to embrace the other portion of the truth. We Seventh-day Adventists see that the view of the dispensationalists is wrong. That view is the idea that all the prophecies to the Jews in the land need to be fulfilled in exact detail and therefore the church is in the way. Thus theThy teach that the church needs to be raptured away then God will once again use the Jews in the land and fulfill every minor point of prophecies that were not fulfilled back then. Sadly in seeing that error, Satan has encouraged us to embrace replacement theology. The idea that God is through with the Jew and is now using the church to fulfill the prophecies. (and for the Bible texts that you pointed out, replacement theology says that they apply to Jews who become converts to Christianity.) The Bible sees prophecies as conditional to our response. And the Bible offers two possible ways how God is willing to use the Jews. In one possibility you start with the land. We tend to read these in a vacuum and miss the historical setting. That piece of property was THE major intersection between the great trade routes between Europe, Africa and Asia. It was quite literally the center of the ancient world. While I Canaanites could have been blessed by the tolls of the caravans, they picked up a couple of very harmful ideas. One was in their worship they believed that they needed to help out the gods of life to defeat the gods of death. (That property was also where the weather patterns of Europe, Asia, Africa and the Arabian Desert also happened to meet.). They believed that this was done by uniting the life forces: They would on the important times in the agricultural cycle (which were the same as what we were to find later as the feasts of the land) they would wear clothing of mixed textures, eat breads of mixed grains, and everyone have sex with each other, man, women, children and animals. This depravity caused other depravities, including the idea that if they raped someone that they were stealing some of their victim's life force, and if they were to rape them to death that they would get all their life force. That meant that some of the food that would have grown in their victim's garden will now grow in their garden. Some of the animals that would have been born in their victims animals will now be born to their animals, some of the children that would have been born to their victim's wife will now be born to their wife. This made the land a very dangerous place, but yet it was again the center of the ancient world. In giving this land to the Hebrews, world commerce would improve because this great intersection would no longer be dangerous. The Hebrews could get their revenue from the tolls and trust in God for the weather issues. Meanwhile the trade caravans would travel the world and talk about the people in that intersection and their God and religion of simply trusting that God instead of trying to appease the gods or help them out. This would have carried the gospel to the whole world and God's kingdom would have been set up. Now if the Hebrews were not faithful God would bring them curses to get their attention and encourage repentance. But if they all failed then they would go into exile where they were to talk about God's faithfulness and their unfaithfulness, and if faithful the messiah would come to take them home. We find the Assyrian and Babylonian exile, it did not end as predicted but they had a lackluster second exodus back for another 70 weeks of years of God wanting to use them in the land to share the gospel. But they were so afraid of paganism that they kept to themselves, and Jesus was not accepted by the people as a whole, so Jesus again predicted exile theology, going into all the world and sharing about their unfaithfulness but God's faithfulness and wait for the messiah to come and take us home. God can use both the Jews and the grafted in gentiles in this situation. As for the way of using the land.... that piece of property is no longer the center of the world. No longer where the great caravans need to go through and learn from the people and go and tell others about these people, their religion and their God. Shipping and air cargo has made the way God wanted to use the land back then obsolete, and the only way to use is us going into all the world spreading the gospel. None of us have all the truth. The only time we had full gospel was in the Lord Jesus Christ himself. Once you got to his disciples you got different aspects of the truth that they saw clearer than others. God's people consists of Jews and Gentiles who are trusting in God and sharing what God means to us.

If the ONE TREE - ISRAEL - has believing Gentile branches along with believing Jewish branches, then the 144,000 (all from Israel) could be of non-Hebrew as well as Hebrew origin. The 144,000 will be "able to stand" at "that day". What DAY is that? It's the Second Coming. Look at the preceding verses. Revelation 6:14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" The full "wrath" is poured out - as the 7 last plagues (16:1). They are poured out on the DAY that Christ returns, as soon as He has removed His people. Whether the 144,000 are those who live through to the end, or those resurrected to everlasting life at His return - both - will "stand" at that day, while the wicked are hiding in caves and crying for the rocks to cover them. The New Jerusalem has 12 gates and 12 foundations. The 12 gates are named for the tribes of Israel, and the 12 foundations are named for the 12 disciples. Kinda combines Old Testament era with New Testament era saints. 12 x 12 = 144,000. No. I don't believe the #144,000 is a literal number. It's symbolic. Represents all those who have served Christ. The 144,000 are call "first fruits". They will come first. The "great multitude" will come later. The "great multitude" - I believe - will be "harvested" during the 8th millennium, from "the rest of the dead". They "come out of the great tribulation" in the sense that they suffered with all the rest of mankind, during this terrible 6000 years of earth's history. This earth's history - under Satan's domination - IS "the great tribulation".

Pastor I did apologize, and I told him I forgot before I read your comment. But I would like to address you on dynamic translation. I sometime feel that being a woman it is like we are not familiar with the different translation theories. According to Eugene Nida, dynamic equivalence, the term as he originally coined, is the "quality of a translation in which the message of the original text has been so transported into the receptor language that the response of the receptor is essentially like that of the original receptors." Nida, Eugene A., and Charles R. Taber, (1969); The Theory and Practice of Translation, With Special Reference to Bible Translating, 200, Leiden: Brill I am full aware of both formal/functional and the dynamic equivalence terms. Wikipedia express my understanding that I was taught in school very clearly: Formal equivalence approach tends to emphasize fidelity to the lexical details and grammatical structure of the original language, whereas dynamic equivalence tends to employ a more natural rendering but with less literal accuracy. Because functional equivalence approach eschews strict adherence to the grammatical structure of the original text in favor of a more natural rendering in the target language, it is sometimes used when the readability of the translation is more important than the preservation of the original grammatical structure. Formal equivalence is often more goal than reality, if only because one language may contain a word for a concept which has no direct equivalent in another language. In such cases, a more dynamic translation may be used or a neologism may be created in the target language to represent the concept (sometimes by borrowing a word from the source language). The more the source language differs from the target language, the more difficult it may be to understand a literal translation without modifying or rearranging the words in the target language. On the other hand, formal equivalence can allow readers familiar with the source language to analyze how meaning was expressed in the original text, preserving untranslated idioms, rhetorical devices (such as chiastic structures in the Hebrew Bible) and diction in order to preserve original information and highlight finer shades of meaning. These are the tools of studying to be a Biblical Historian. But what is left out is the most important tool THE HOLY SPIRIT. Men think they can out do THE MOST HIGH and they can't that these so call theories are better and they are not. Do they have some merit yes but I use them both; however I check the resources and both the translation and transliteration of the word. I am going to give you that most will not like but to prove a point. Now I will provide the same Verse from all the translation Bibles that I use: God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. Gen 9:27 KJV “Let Elohim enlarge Yapheth, and let him dwell in the tents of Shěm. And let Kena‛an become his servant.” Gen 9:27 TS2009 Elohim shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall live in the tents of Shem, and Canaan shall be their slave. Gen 9:27 HRB Elohim shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. Gen 9:27 WOY Now if you notice that they all say that Japheth shall be enlarge! Is this correct and do it it fit in with either formal or dynamic let's see. What we will look up is the word large because as a young girl I believe the KJV that Japheth would spread all around the world, which I felt make sense. But let's take a closer look at the word: H660: pâthâh (paw-thaw'): A primitive root; to open, that is, be (causatively make) roomy; usually figuratively (in a mental or moral sense) to be (causatively make) simple or (in a sinister way) delude: - allure, deceive, enlarge, entice, flatter, persuade, silly (one). Strong Hebrew Dictionary Boy was I confuse first it meant to open and roomy, then these other negative words and also enlarge is in with them? So I go to Hub.com I am sure that you know about this website and look at what I found: Words Added_Page_1.tiff Words Added_Page_2.tiff Now I was truly puzzle and had to some distinctive research. I look at the verses that Hub provided and not one of them had the word enlarge, roomy at all. They all use the various negative word. So I put in the word enlarge and I got this: H7337: râchab, (raw-khab'); A primitive root; to broaden (intransitively or transitively, literally or figuratively): - be an en- (make) large (-ing), make room, make (open) wide. Strong Hebrew Dictionary Now I check Verses from this word and it had nothing to do with Japheth but it used all the words from Strong H7337. If you notice in the Hub chart Japheth is called pathah. Why would the European translators change this word? I feel because of what it actual mean which were negative words. You see the Canaanites was to be servants of servants to their brothers and servants (not slaves) to their uncles. Why because YAHWEH came to them first and the Bibles states it in Gen 15:16. The Children of Israel were not slaves, but servants and they got paid which is the same in Biblical times and today. Now Japheth children had problems too and sadly the translators did something real big they added a lie! I am sorry but they did. This had nothing to do with formal/functional or dynamic this was just added or change to make this brother's children look better then the other two brothers childrens. Let me explain something to all, I have in my home numerous Bibles, lexicons and other source books (my house and shed is full of books), since I started studying History and Biblical Religion and other Religions in school. I studied, wrote articles and have spoke on various occasion about the problems that Biblical scholars lack and that is understanding culture. When you do not understand the culture of the time you will not get a clear grasp of the language. The Dead Sea Scroll reveal something. It reveal that the Hebrews spoke an AfroAsiatic language that we now know is Paleo Hebrew. The language comes from the Canaanites who if you read all the modern translations they love to put these people down. We all have sin and come short of the GLORY of THE MOST HIGH! Any without sin cast the first stone! We all have problems that we are ashamed of. Hey Nimrod came from Cush and look what he's done. Shem got the blessing of YAHSHUA coming through their line but they are the ones who had HIM crucified! Yet, when the truth has been reveal that the Hebrews who were Chaldeans who came from Ebner; they did not speak a Semitic language. But Biblical Scholars wanted to ease it in there anyway. Let me tell you something, when you put one person down you put all of us down. We all came from Noah and from Adam! We all have problems and hating each other means you hate THE CREATORS! I want it to be clear that I having been search and studying for over 40 years and I still research words over and over again. I know I am not perfect, but I am striving by THE GRACE of THE MOST HIGH! I want everyone to check out everything I present here. If I am wrong I will gladly accept my error and correct my error but would any of you do the same? The Bible say that people are lost due to the lack of knowledge and understanding, ours or THE MOST HIGH! YAHSHUA said: "In vain do man worship ME teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Mat 15:9 I want all do realize that the word study means to research. Men have tampered with YAHWEH'S WORD! One good thing about the ancient writers they were chosen by YAHWEH and the Dead Sea Scroll showed that they were consistent. We are not today and that's sad. Why I ask you Pastor would EGW have a vision that she was shown words were changed in the Bible if this is not important? Are we just so suppose to take these Bible Scholar words because they have a PHD beside them or because they are well known? EGW said we shouldn't, do we believer or not or when what she wrotes suits us? I am not well known by the world standard, but I am in favor and known by THE MOST HIGH and I owe my allegiance to HIM! Many may not agree with me and that's fine, we all must make our own choices. But I have been to college and I have a degree. I almost finish my Master but had to quit and take care of my two elderly parents. My Master I feel came by THE HOLY SPIRIT and with the aid of all here in this forum. For every challenge or question or subject I address has help me in achieving a better understanding of the Bible. I owe my gratitude to you all and thank you all so much. I just do not want you think because I am a women, I do not know the philosophical teachings and theories that are the norms. I was taught them in school. I don't agree with them in everything and I ask THE HOLY SPIRIT to guide me. If I make a mistake and I have, that's why I constantly ask please check out things I have presented. Some have and that's great and I appreciate it but let's discuss all things with meekness and kindness. Respecting that we all are intelligent human beings and with THE HOLY SPIRIT to guide us we can all choose to find truth! I truly hope I haven't offended anyone! Happy Sabbath and be bless!

I would be reluctant to assign motive based on a differing viewpoint.

A Refiner’s fire ?

From my time in SDA it seems that most Adventists believe or buy into Replacement Theology in one form or another and/or to a greater or lesser degree. However, most would deny adherence to RT, at the same time affirming the points thereof. IOW, they believe it, but don't know they believe it.

Many are concerned that the proposals coming before the Annual Council are an unwarranted step toward excessive centralization of control, an Adventist Papacy or dictatorship. For them voting these documents is another mistake like the action in 2014. To me, this is overstating the situation. The compliance committees are not arbitrary bodies with the power […] The post Are Compliance Committees a Step Toward an Adventist Papacy? (AC18-9) appeared first on Jon Paulien's Blog. View the full article

Eye be single ?

The term Replacement Theology is coined by those that do not want to see the truth of who a real Jew is. Romans 2:24-29 (24) As it is written: "God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." (25) Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. (26) If those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? (27) The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker. (28) A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. (29) No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God. So it is not "replacement theology", but a denial of the truth. The true Christian is the true Jew.