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Thank you for your observations, and your citations. They are important contributions to what we are discussing. I have to be brief since I am not in country, and I am only able to type through my phone so apologies. I think it is important however to say that firstly the Catholic Encyclopedia does refute the SDA position regarding the ascendance of the Papacy in 538, which is my point. Both quotes agree on this point. And theye dont differ in detail either. The Emperor Justinian in the 550s is using Pope Vigilius' letter of 547/8. The fundamental is that Pope Vigilius was not a high point of Papal authority but a low point of Papal humiliation, and certainly not an establishment of temporal authority (that was to occur in 756 with the Pepin donation of the Papal States; or Imperial authority for that matter which was to occur later with the coronation of the newly established Holy Roman Emperor Charlemagne in 800). This neither of the quotes differ on. Regarding 1798, yes that did happen. However, as I've tried to carefully point out this was the beginning of a gradual annexation of Papal States territory. This quote does bear this out, that began in 1797 and continued on into 1813 (my quotes) where Pope Pius VII finally but momentarily abdicates the full Papal States. 1798 thus did not mark the end of Papal rule but rather it marked the beginning of the resurgence and revival of Papal rule, since it neither lost completely or permanently temporal and religious authority. It is more accurate to highlight 1798 as the beginning of a 'chapter' from 1797/8 to 1814 (ending with victory gained at the Congress of Vienna, with the almost full restoration of the Papal States, which was only possible from the widely respected reputation that the Popes earned from their suffering under the Revolution and Napoleon). Here is where the SDA position had divorced the event from the context of wider events, namely the French Revolution as a whole and particularly the tussles between Napoleon and Pope Pius VII. Therefore still neither of the facts surrounding 538 nor 1798 support the traditional SDA claims regarding them in support that of the 1260 year interpretation of Daniel. I hope that clears that up. Happy New Year to you by the way and to All!!!

Thank you for your compliments Joe. Yes, this is an additionally crucial historical reality in which I wholeheartedly agree with you. And this disrupts the neat chronology (Roman Empire allegedly ending in 476, and the alleged Papal rise and fall between 538-1798) that the traditional Adventist position has established for itself that justifies its assertion of the Papal fulfilment of the Little Horn. The historical reality as you've pointed out which I support is (of which I am now highlighting to others more generally): End of the Roman Empire in 1453 Its Successor being the Islamic Ottoman Empire from 1453 to 1924 (post WW1 carve up) The repercussions of that World War reality and the subsequent World War which was built on the first is the reality of the Middle East today as many historians, political commentators and historical documentaries point out. Thank you for your comments too :) They are most useful.

5 Things You Didn't Know About The New Year's Eve Ball Drop Welcome to 2019, folks. It's a brand new year, so join us as we celebrate New Year's Day, Trivia Today style! Here are five things you didn't know about the New Year's Eve Ball Drop. Each Crystal Triangle Has a Specific Pattern That Represents a Theme The current ball in Times Square is decorated with Waterford crystal, so you'd expect the ball to have lovely patterns etched into each crystal triangle. However, the patterns aren't random. Each triangle has a pattern that represents a specific theme or idea. Some of these occur year after year, while new ones are also introduced. For example, in 2017, the patterns represented themes like "The Gift of Kindness" (this was a rosette with extended fronds) and "The Gift of Wonder." For 2019, the patterns will once again include "The Gift of Wonder" and "The Gift of Kindness" (among others), as well as bring in the new "Gift of Serenity," which will feature crystal butterflies flying over a meadow. The Ball Drop Started When a Popular Fireworks Show Was Canceled for Raining Ash on Spectators The ball drop wasn't the first New Year's Eve celebration in Times Square, but it has been the least alarming. Previous to the ball drop, the New York Times sponsored a popular fireworks show in the same location. (At the time, the paper was located in the narrow building now home to the ball drop.) The fireworks show happened three years in a row with enthusiastic crowds filling the streets below. However, the fireworks back then would rain hot ash down on people, and city officials didn't like that. They finally decided to halt the show, but Adolph Ochs, the paper's publisher, still wanted to sponsor a celebration. He came up with the ball-drop idea just in time for the party ushering in 1908. The Ball Drop Was Inspired by a Daily Timekeeping Ball Ochs had to come up with an idea quickly, but in a crowded, lively city such as New York, finding inspiration wasn't a problem. Ochs thought the time-ball drop at the Western Union building could be the key. A time ball was a ball that would drop at noon daily, and people would literally stop and stare at it as the drop marked the time. Time balls were common features in cities that allowed residents to synchronize watches, appointments, and more, before times across each time zone were standardized (for example, noon in New York City was equal to about 11:48 a.m. in Washington, D.C., when time balls were in use). Ochs realized that if people would stare at this small time ball, they would love a spectacularly lit ball that would mark midnight. The Ball Has Seen Some Massive Weight Changes The ball in Times Square has seen not only stylistic and material changes, but some massive weight changes as well. The first wood-and-iron ball weighed about 700 pounds, and it became progressively lighter as new versions were introduced—at first. In 1920, the new ball was 400 pounds, and in 1955, it weighed 150 pounds (the owners switched to an all-aluminum ball). For the 1999-2000 drop, a ball with Waterford crystal and a diameter of 6 feet was introduced, with a weight of about a half ton, or a bit over 1,000 pounds. However, the latest Waterford-crystal version—12 feet in diameter and weatherproofed—upped the weight to an astounding 11,875 pounds. Lots of Other Cities Drop Food in Their Own Version of the Ball Drop It's not a secret that other cities have fireworks and ball drops to mimic what New York does. Many cities, though, drop a food—in some cases, real—instead of a ball. Fake food replicas that are dropped include the giant potato in Boise, Idaho; a giant cluster of grapes in Temecula, California; and a giant Moon Pie in Mobile, Indiana; real food that gets dropped includes 200 pounds of real bologna in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. The bologna is then donated to charity for meals. Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin used to drop a dead carp—yes, a real one—but in 2018, the committee that runs the town's multiday Carp Fest decided to stop the drop for logistics reasons. No word on whether future celebrations will include a carp drop.

♥️ Pureness of heart ?

Happy New Year from those of us here in the Office of Archives, Statistics, and Research! For your contemplation, here is Charles P. Whitford's poem, "New Year Wishes", published one hundred years ago in January 1919 in 'The Present Truth': New Year Wishes. WHAT shall I wish for thee - Treasures of earth? Songs in the springtime, Pleasure and mirth? Flowers in thy pathway, Skies ever clear? Would this ensure thee A Happy New Year? What shall I wish for thee? What can be found Bringing thee sunshine, All the year round? Where are the treasures Lasting and dear, That shall ensure thee A Happy New Year? Faith that increaseth, Walking in light; Hope that aboundeth, Happy and bright; Love that is perfect, Casting out fear, These shall ensure thee A Happy New Year. —Chas. P. Whitford Whitford was born in Vermont in 1843 and died in Florida in 1931. He was a singing evangelist who regularly contributed to various church papers.

HEY ALL today JAN 1 2019 is New Years Day===as we follow the BIBLE TRUTHS=== may we also get GOD'S BLESSINGS dgrimm60

Happy New Year! REJOICE!

Posted some info over here: https://adventistan.com/forums/topic/74585-historical-revisions-to-sda-beliefs/?tab=comments#comment-785929

The fundamental beliefs (aka "Principles") of 1872: https://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/fundamental-principles.php A look at the beliefs thru the years: https://www.truthseeker.church/fundamental-principles-vs-beliefs From 2015, regarding the latest round of beliefs revisions: https://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story2975-what-got-changed-in-fundamental-beliefs A nice pdf file of the 28 beliefs: https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

Your response to hch was very respectful; and a very detailed and orderly historic response to his message. Thank you. Perhaps I can be that way. I have not been very respectful to hch in the past. Personally, I don't see the demise of the Roman Empire until the 15th century, when the Ottomans conquered Constantinople (named after King Constantine) and renamed it Istanbul; and the Greek Orthodox equivalent of St. Peter's Basilica was turned into a mosque currently known as the Hagia Sophia. Constantinople may have been the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire; but to non-Christian people of the region (Muslims), it was still the Roman Empire.

Is it not fair to question what we believe and why? Are we afraid we might find something in our 174 year old fundamental beliefs that may be questionable or need revision? The apostles Peter and Paul both seemed to believe Jesus' Second Coming would be in their lifetime. They were truly inspired by God; but on this account they were wrong. Could we be wrong about some of the things we have believed; or was EGW more inspired than Peter and Paul?