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Morewnna has asked about the following: I will respond later. Her question related to SDA membership, not election to office. In specifically responding, I will place my comments directly under the question, in brackets [ ] and with my initials. It should be noted that the so-called 27/28/29 Fundamental Beliefs were never intended to establish the boundaries of Adventism. There are 13 beliefs required for baptism. But, those have some slack as to membership. In any case, it is the individual congregation that decides. Is it permissible to drink alcohol, and still be a SDA? [As I have posted, a recent research world-wide study has suggested that about 9% of SDA members do drink some amount of beverage alcohol. So, yes, there are SDAs who remain members and do drink some alcohol--GM.] What about eating a pepperoni pizza? Would that be a disqualification? [ I can only say that such would be quite rare--GM. Working on the Sabbath (even in a non-medical field, but perhaps in a support staff position)? Automatic excommunication? [We believe that there is necessary work that must be done on the Sabbath. That decision is left to the individual. Necessary work is not limited to the medical field. SDAS serve as police, prison guards, and much more. Most jobs today do require some sort of support staff. the decision is between the person and God--GM.] Disbelief in Trinitarianism? {There are a few SDA members today who do not believe in the Trinity. If they wish to live in peace with us, they can generally do so--GM.] Belief in transubstantiation? [I have never heard of this being a membership issue--GM.] Belief in infant baptism? [SDA clergy are unlikely to baptize an infant. The parents can believe as they wish--GM.] Multiple wives? [There are places in this world where men have multiple wives. This is an issue about which the SDA denomination has struggles. I do not believe that it has a good answer. However, a man with multiple wives may not be allowed to become a SDA member. NOTE: IF you are personally involved in such a situation, I suggest that you discuss it in depth with SDA clergy--GM. Why else would you be interested in asking such a question?] Disbelief in Ellen White's prophet status? [Many people are confused as to what is meant by stating that we believe that EGW as a prophet. In any case, officially you do not have to believe that EGW was a prophet-- GM.]

Wander: You are correct! I had to research the Paleo Hebrew word 'echâd due to its diversity of meanings. Strongs states this adjective means properly united, that is, one; or (as an ordinal) first: - a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any (-thing), apiece, a certain [daily], each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, once, one, only, other, some, together. The Paleo Hebrew language must be understood differently than the Indo-European languages. The language of the Ancient Hebrews is closely related to their agricultural and nomadic lifestyle. Each word must be understood through this culture rather than from our own modern western Greco-Roman culture. . . A good example of this is found in the very first verse of Genesis where most translations will have "In the beginning God created." The Revised Mechanical Translation reads "In the summit, Elohiym fattened." The Ancient Hebrew Language; By Jeff A. Benner But what made it worst is the changing of words by translators causing confusion a mixture of different denominations. All claiming to believe in THE MOST HIGH! One word can have many to believe a lie! YAHWEH clearly said not to add or subtract from the Paleo Hebrew language and it is an Afro-Asiatic language that our European family still will not accept due to prejudice and that's sad. Just like refusing to accept the truth about the dark days, the same problem accepting this language was not a Semitic language but a Canaanite language who were descendants from Ham! So they put it in the Afro-Asiatic language and still labeling it Semitic! When we truly accept the history that YAHWEH created us all out of one blood this must be corrected! Like the dark days the belief that Deut. 6:4-5 is referring to a trinity when it is not. It has to do with the Paleo Hebrew word ELOHIYM. This word or TITLE was not in the original script at all and it is plural. What Moses said: "Hear, O IsraEL, YAHWEH our ELOHINU is ONE.” Even as a historian, I am not perfect and I miss this myself until reasons. I too accepted the plural form and thought the adjective echad meant unity or together. I was wrong it meant one or first base on the noun. The TITLE was ELOHINU and not ELOHIYM that many Hebrew suppose versions deceived me. ELOHINU is singular and means the same as “our ELOAH, which is the singular form also.” This verse was referring to YAHWEH, THE FATHER THE FIRST called THE MOST HIGH! Everything is done for HIM, that is why YAHSHUA has always come down and represented HIM and HIS NAME! HE Said in John, I come in MY FATHER'S NAME. I have said this before The theme of the Bible is THE FATHER and that is done by THE SON and THE HOLY SPIRIT is to uplift THE MOST HIGH! THREE INDIVIDUAL SPIRIT BEINGS but THE FATHER comes FIRST YAHWEH ELOHINU! Happy Sabbath!

the ebay Jesus toast was funnier ... lol

The expression "sinful flesh" used in Romans 8:4 is a summary of human nature described in chapter 7. Note the characteristics of sinful flesh: "I am doing the very thing I hate" vs 15; "I am no longer the one doing it [the thing I don't want to do] but sin that indwells me" vs 17; "Nothing good dwells in me," "doing good is not present in me" vs 18; "I practice the very evil I do not wish" vs. 19 “Indwelling sin does the thing I do not wish" vs 20 Evil is present in me" vs 21 "I am a prisoner of the law of sin in my members" vs. 23 This is the plight of fallen humanity, those born with sinful flesh. Jesus did not have any of these deficiencies, not for a second. That's the reason scripture inserts the term "likeness." Scripture does have a term for describing people with identical nature. The KJV translates the term "like passions" in Acts 14:15 and James 5:17. It's not used with reference to Christ.

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I know this is an old thread, but I ran across a lecture by Pr Doug Batchelor today and thought of this thread! I believe there were a few others, but this will do. In my personal opinion I believe he pretty much covers all the angles?? Did Angels Marry Humans? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hMMZx12KN4

Narcaqh: I commend you for bringing to our attention the U. S. Vaccine Court. A careful reading of the purpose and function of that Court clearly demonstrates the value of vaccines that the lives that they save. It is good to see you post material that is convincing on the need to be vaccinated. For information on the purpose and function of hte U.S. Vaccine Court see: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/vaccines-trial-us-court-separates-fact-fiction The following is jsut one of the informative paragraphs in the above:

I was just gonna ask what kind of car Jesus drives? - A great big Honda! He wants us all to be in one Accord!

Yes they were. Look at the Jews under Egyptian slavery and Babylonian captivity. Look at the poor non-Muslim women in the Middle East who are sex slaves to ISIS. Look at the Chinese who were forced into slavey to build the railroads. Most people are slaves (or at best indentured servants) to their jobs. Most people (especially the unskilled) are underpaid compared to their "masters" (CEO's and General Managers). They may not feel like they are owned; but they are. I don't think the Bible ever outright condemns slavery; but it does condemn treating your slaves badly.

The "fault-finding" comment was a direct reply to GM who said that he "found fault" with my posts. And JM did the fact checking on your "fact filled" comment that Babylon was not the King of the North. I thank JM for giving the King of the North Bible text that shows that "over and over" people are claiming to disprove the truth that is not convenient for whatever reason. It is unsettling when fault finders and fact checkers do not get it right. An old adage goes like this. A man heard something. He told everyone in town. When the man learned the truth. He confessed to the local priest, who instructed him to go through the town and place a feather on the doorstep at every home that he had told the story and return to the priest when he was done. When he returned, the priest told him to go back and gather all the feathers and bring them to him. That proved to be an impossible task. I have tried to find and gather feathers on occasion. And I have felt like I was being tared and feathered at times by folks who just didn't think before they spoke. The hurtful comments were not disputing the facts, but the ones that came across like personal attacks.

“Therefore, absent more information, I can not pray as President Ted has requested.” So... if someone at church is like “Can you please pray for my mom, she’s going through a hard time” you won’t pray for her without demanding details? AND you’ll feel the need to bash them on a public forum?

Thank you, Gregory. You have at least attempted to answer my question. Still, I have to wonder: How many of these kinds of items would it take to cross that threshold of being a Seventh-day Adventist, and not being one? If one of them is ok, are two ok? What about 3 or 4 or more? Certainly, there must be some threshold. I ask many questions for the sake of investigation, understanding, and clarity; I do not ask questions that pertain only to my own personal experiences. [Morwenna, I have what my wife calls a dry sense of humor, that some people do not understand. My comment as to multiple wives and you was an example of me attempting to be funny. I trust you were not offended--GM.]

Wander: You know a White Woman said the same thing in a store to me. I told her you are color and I have never said that you weren't. I said your people said that or make the difference between all the other color than them! If I knew the masters or if they were alive today I would tell them I forgive them. It has been a hard struggle for me over the years but I have changed. If YAHSHUA Said; FATHER FORGIVE THEM..." And HE was THE SON and A ELOHE, then I too must forgive. There is a reason why I am here in America and I know Satan brought my ancestors here in the cruelest way, however, YAHWEH made something bad to become something great. It all has to do with love and forgiveness! I must stand for the truth of what has been done but not in anger but in love. We all must change including me! The word one in the English language is not the same in the Hebrews language. One blood, one flesh, and one ELOHIYM mean the same in Hebrew. One blood shows two people together produced many nations, one flesh show when married you work together. One ELOHIYM is a UNION of THREE INDIVIDUAL SPIRIT BEINGS working together. Persons are people, not SPIRIT BEINGS! I can only pray that all will see this! Happy Sabbath and be bless!

Was it Jesus who prayed that we be in one accord? That is such a tiny car, the group of believers that fits into it will have to be limited. [HC, I applaud your sense of humor--GM.]

oh brother. Spare me the irresponsible mixing of word *origins* vs the current vernacular meaning of a word. It reminds me of people who get the vapors over the celebration of Christmas or Easter because the days had been celebrated by druids or ancient pagans eons ago. The author needs to take a course in semantics and rhetoric.

As I stated earlier, this has nothing to do with parties, this has to with the man himself. I have never seen Barak Obama, the Bushes, Jimmy Carter, Ragan or other men in the office act the way this man acts at all. I am not prejudiced, but it appears you are. The character has nothing at all to do with parties it has to do with the person. Happy Sabbath!

My personal views are eccentric. I tend to keep them to myself except on a forum like this, as I have no desire to challenge anyone's faith in my local congregation. Trinity - I tend toward modalism, which was rejected as a heresy by the early church. Adventists don't seem to have a well-developed doctrine of the trinity; few members I've encountered would object to modalism. Soteriology - I haven't a fixed view; I find support for both Calvinist and Arminian views in scripture. As for the identity of the scape-goat, the sanctuary doctrine or the exact legal byzantine process by which God blots out sins, I don't really care. If the result is that I'm forgiven, that's enough for me. Inspiriation - I lean toward thought inspiration and a non-literal reading of many texts. Creation - I hold to a metaphorical and symbolic reading of Genesis 1 and 2, but it doesn't really matter to me. 2nd Advent - this doesn't concern me. I take one day at a time. Assuming that death takes me from this world, whether Christ returns the next week or in 1,000 years makes no difference to me. Alcohol - consumption is generally unwise, but I don't see a blanket prohibition in scripture. Diet - I think we're misguided in holding on to an adulterated watered down version of the rules of kashrut, but the vegetarian/vegan diet is generally more healthful. Smoking - a filthy habit with no redeeming features. It's bad for health, but so is being fat. We don't discipline our obese brethren or exclude them from church office, should we really exclude smokers? Sabbath - My views on sabbath observance differ from the majority of Adventists, but I generally hold to the Friday sundown to Saturday sundown view when situated at tropical and most temperate latitudes. At extreme latitudes I don't believe the "evening" necessarily coincides with sunset. I have eccentric views on what constitutes "work" and "servant" for purposes of the 4th commandment. Women's ordination - much ado about nothing; I personally don't care for the idea of a full-time professional ordained clergy, male or female. I am loathe to send my tithe donations where they will end up in the division or GC coffers to help fund the internecine war between the NAD (and certain of its unions) and the GC. Tithe - I don't believe the New Testament supports the SdA official teachings and practices. I support the church with a donation that I mark partially "tithe" and partially "offerings". Ecclesiology - I have yet to experience the Holy Spirit leading in any of the deliberative meetings or votes I have attended, be they at the local, conference or union level. Clear corporate governance procedures are necessary for any large organization, but arguments that the GC vote is the voice of God holds little sway with me Dancing - I see nothing in scripture regarding ballroom dancing, ballet, interpretive dance etc. Licentious, sexually suggestive or explicit dance likely violates the Biblical exhortation to modesty. Music - I love Christian music of all kinds; I don't see the four-part harmony, multi-stanza "hymn" as a superior or more sacred art form over other types of music. When I was baptized in the mid-1980s, I held to the official SdA doctrines 100%. Since then, my views have evolved. Given the above, should I resign my membership?

The time has gone when an ABC could rely on the loyalty of the typical SDA customer. That just isn't enough. Store owners need creativity to attract customers, especially in these times.

The purpose of Bible prophecy is much more than to tell the future before it happens. The view that the primary purpose of Bible prophecy demonstrates that you do not understand the Biblical teaching.

Won't be able to explain it away in our day and age. Satellite photos would verify whether or not smoke or thick clouds were blocking the sun. Also, I believe the darkness associated with the prophecy will cover a heck of a lot more area than just a small isolated portion of New England.

I was just thinking the same thing, to invade Israel all countries, being east, had to come around and than down from the north!!

I happen to agree with hch on this assessment. Babylon may be east of Israel; but the only safe way into Israel (i.e., without the risks of crossing the Arabian desert) was from the north. Read the prophecies of Jeremiah concerning where Babylon would attack from - it was the north. "The Lord said to me, “From the north disaster will be poured out on all who live in the land. I am about to summon all the peoples of the northern kingdoms,” declares the Lord. “Their kings will come and set up their thrones in the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem; they will come against all her surrounding walls and against all the towns of Judah." (Jer. 1:14-15) "“Announce in Judah and proclaim in Jerusalem and say: ‘Sound the trumpet throughout the land!’ Cry aloud and say: ‘Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities!’ Raise the signal to go to Zion! Flee for safety without delay! For I am bringing disaster from the north, even terrible destruction.” (Jer. 4:5-6) "I will summon all the peoples of the north and my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon,” declares the Lord, “and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants and against all the surrounding nations. I will completely destroy them and make them an object of horror and scorn, and an everlasting ruin." (Jer. 25:9)

Trevor, I don't mean to "suggest" anything. I'm stating without apology or qualification that Jesus did not have a sinful, fallen nature. Paul's description of sinful flesh in Romans 7 makes it obvious that Jesus could not have had that kind of flesh because people with that kind of flesh i.e., humanity, can not resist sin. The text doesn't say Jesus had sinful flesh, it says he was in the likeness of sinful flesh. Before you skate away to another passage in another book by another author, you really ought to see how the term "likeness" is used in the rest of Romans. It's used in chapter 6 to compare baptism to the death and resurrection of Christ, obviously metaphorical. It's used in chapter one to compare a graven image to the thing it represents. That's the main way the word is used throughout Scripture. It's often used in Ezekiel and Revelation to describe items seen in vision. Philippians 2 does say Jesus was made in the "likeness" of men. It's just another way of saying Jesus was in the "likeness" of sinful flesh.

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Your understanding is just that, your understanding. Thanks for sharing it. Sinful flesh sins. That's what it does. It's impossible for those with sinful flesh not to sin. That's what Paul spends a lot of time laying out in chapter 7. Sinful flesh sinning is inevitable to the point that he refers to the dynamic as the "law of sin and death." Jesus was not a man of "like passions" with us. We can not compare ourselves to him like we can Elijah or like Paul compared himself to those who offered him obeisance. Jesus was a man in the "likeness" of sinful flesh.

I almost gave your post a like, however the part "perhaps overwhelmed by the outsize influence of EGW" stopped me. Yes, Mrs. White does hold a version of LGT, but as I pointed out above, her view of LGT and the views of those like Andreasen are very different. Andreasen and others sees LGT as a difference of QUALITY from other generations. Mrs. White sees it as a difference in QUANTITY from other generations. Also, they both had different understandings of Perfection which is delineated in Bowman's fantastic book "Hebrew Thought Compared to Greek"https://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-Thought-Compared-Thorleif-Paperback/dp/B00GOHAN5K/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=YZXQM6NK4SNBFDG0AM83 with Mrs. White holding to the Hebrew view of perfection and Andreasen and the other LGT people holding the Greek view. And they ignore Mrs. White's comments that they do not agree with and have connected their view of perfection to a thought that John Wesley sadly entertained. The great man that Wesley was he was wrong on that speculated view. Mrs. White's view of LGT is too different from Andreasen's and the others who have been pushing this view in the Adventist church. They are mistaken on this point, due to being overwhelmed by the outsize influence of Greek thinking and Wesley's incorrect speculation.

i understood that, the life in the word of God has the same source as the life in the leaves of the tree of life. Just as Jesus is the vine planted in heaven and the vine grows to the earth and we are grafted into the heavenly vine and becoming living branches, so as we eat the living word, we partake of the leaves of the tree of life and are healed in this life, healed to believe and live for God's glory. By faith I am healed from the power of sin to hold me in fear, and doubt, and selfishness. Spiritual reality is a special kind of quantum physics.

There is never any negative major biblical events occurring in the Word that has the children of God escaping all affects of the trial, but rather going through them and in the end being delivered from the assaults. I see no reason why end time events should be any different with instruction to prepare, indicating willingness to cooperate with God's instruction, Noah's instruction to build the ark being the most striking, especially since there had never before been anything such as falling rain up to that time. 9“I smote you with scorching wind and mildew; And the caterpillar was devouring Your many gardens and vineyards, fig trees and olive trees; Yet you have not returned to Me,” declares the LORD. 10“I sent a plague among you after the manner of Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured horses, And I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; Yet you have not returned to Me,” declares the LORD. 11“I overthrew you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, And you were like a firebrand snatched from a blaze; Yet you have not returned to Me,” declares the LORD. 12“Therefore thus I will do to you, O Israel; Because I will do this to you, Prepare to meet your God, O Israel.”...Amos 4 God is Love! Jesus saves!

Just from a quick skimming, noting the words "rapture", "Christians in heaven before plagues start", and the roles various countries are playing in the Middle East affairs...it looks very similar to the Hal Lindsey-esque prophetic school of teaching, only the Communist countries of the 70's and 80's are now replaced with ISIS of today. Pretty much everything else is the same. Hence, it is not something I will critique as lending valuable or credible counsel to God's people in these last days. Better contributions are out there. Blessings,

It's all in how one interprets the prophecies. If one has a historicist or preterist view of prophecy, they are gonna read things a lot differently than a futurist. I believe one of the purposes of prophecy is to demonstrate to people the accuracy and foreknowledge of God when we see these prophecies fulfilled. All we can do about prophesied future events and their timing is pure speculation. This has been demonstrated many times when your speculations turn out to be inaccurate and need "revision".