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SDAs have taken a position on the classification of food to eat based upon Leviticus 11. Gustave is asking well known questions, for which we (SDAs) do not have a good answer for some of those questions. On some questions, we may have good answers. However, let it be said that the SDA understanding is different from the understanding of that passage among Jews. We, generally are not as rigid in the application as were the Jews. As an example, we generally would be willing to take some medical pills that are packaged in a form that an observant Jew would refuse. I could expand upon this further. I am simply making a point with this one illustration. .

Unquestionably incompatible with the Doctrine of the Trinity. “We invite all to compare the testimonies of the Holy Spirit through Mrs. W., with the word of God. And in this we do not invite you to compare them with your creed. That is quite another thing. The trinitarian may compare them with his creed, and because they do not agree with it, condemn them. The observer of Sunday, or the man who holds eternal torment an important truth, and the minister that sprinkles infants, may each condemn the testimonies’ of Mrs. W. because they do not agree with their peculiar views. And a hundred more, each holding different views, may come to the same conclusion. But their genuineness can never be tested in this way.” - Review & Herald, June 13, 1871 I know you are on your way to work and want to add more when you come back so I'll just give you a high level summary of the position I'm taking. And to be clear I'm the position Ellen's teachings are incompatible with the Doctrine of the Trinity. God doing what He wants & how He wants isn't a Calvinistic concept it's a Biblical one. Isaiah 35,4 Say to the fainthearted: Take courage, and fear not: behold your God WILL bring the revenge of recompense: God himself WILL come and WILL save you.Then shall the eyes of the blind be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.Then shall the lame man leap as a hart, and the tongue of the dumb shall be free: for waters are broken out in the desert, and streams in the wilderness That's extremely clear, Isaiah is issuing an unconditional prophecy that "God himself will come" and WILL save" Isaiah is not unique in it's affirmation, there are nearly 100 such direct affirmations in Scripture. Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: That Scripture is representative of scores of others which affirm God knows what's going to happen before it happens, i.e. "declaring the end from the beginning" & that all God's pleasure will be realized. Christ was the express purpose of God for us. Ephesians 1,9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he PURPOSED in Christ Ephesians 1,10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out EVERYTHING in conformity with the PURPOSE of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory Religious Jews who accepted Christianity would have heard and understood the "trigger words" about Christ being "the purpose of the Father" & that according to Scripture NOTHING changes God's purpose. Job 42,2 I know that you can do all things; NO purpose of yours can be thwarted Psalm 33,11 But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through ALL generations Again, these are representative of scores of other Scriptures that say the same thing using different words. Jesus Himself was explicit the Scriptures spoke of Him and that those same Scriptures HAD TO BE fulfilled. Jesus reminded His Apostles of this after everything had happened. Luke 24,44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that ALL THINGS MUST BE FULFILLED, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me Scripture asserts that "God's Purpose" was to destroy the works of the Devil. 1 John 3:8 For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil All the above is systematized in the Creed repeated in Catholic & Eastern Orthodox Churches. I have collected multiple examples from the General Conference Archives that have the Authors of the articles calling out the Creeds repeated in Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic and Baptist Churches as apostate. Ellen White, from my understanding taught that the purpose of Christ was to "Vindicate God's Holy Law". NOT the injunction of eating from the Tree in the Garden of Eden but specifically the "10 Commandment Law" with extra attention paid to the Gregorian Saturday. Ellen White Satan will continue to bring in his erroneous theories and to claim that his sentiments are true. Seducing spirits are at work. I am to meet the danger positively, denying the right of anyone to use my writings to serve the devil's purpose to allure and deceive the people of God. God has spared my life that I may present the testimonies given me, to vindicate that which God vindicates, and to denounce every sophistry [intended] to deceive if possible the very elect.--Ms 126, 1905, pp. 3, 7. ("A Warning Against Present Dangers," typed December 29, 1905.) {5MR 144.1} Ellen White R&H August 13, 1895, paragraph 6 Representing the law of God in its true character arouses the enmity of Satan. Those who love God with all the heart, will love the law of his kingdom. They will not only profess to be guided by its principles, but they will actually live them out, even in a world that is no more favorable to the development of Christian principles than were the inhabitants of the world before the flood, of whom it is written that the thoughts and imaginations of their hearts were evil, and only evil continually. A similar condition of society exists in our world today, and if those who claim to be God's commandment-keeping people do not put in practice the principles of the law which Christ came to our world to vindicate, pronouncing it holy, just, and good, they misrepresent the character and mission of their professed Master Ellen White, Review and Herald, Jan 14, 1909 We are to be partakers of knowledge. As I have seen pictures representing Satan coming to Christ in the wilderness of temptation in the form of a hideous monster, I have thought, How little the artists knew of the Bible! Before his fall, Satan was, next to Christ, the highest ANGEL in heaven I suffered the expense of purchasing a very old "The Great Controversy By Ms. E.G. White". The cover on the book has a picture of what I suspect is a bearded Jesus with flapping angel wings holding a large chain. It should be understood that the quotes from Ellen above are not exhaustive, they are representative of other statements she made. While I readily concede that Seventh-day Adventists today use an Orthodox Formula for Baptism and Concede that Shawn Boonstra produced a video about the Trinity that I could not find ANY fault with. This poses somewhat of a quandary that Pastor Matthew has helped me somewhat understand. The SDA Church is a "BIG TENT" that allows a wide spectrum of belief - this ultimately made sense to me as I once went to a local SDA Church that's very close to where I live after being invited to an "explore prophetic" series of meetings. After the message multiple SDA Members of that Church started to grind on the Pastor about the Trinity (they were being negative about it). Is it possible in your view that Ellen White wrote so much ant-Trinitarian material that she was between a rock and a hard place and so she then made a few statements that were JUST ENOUGH to have SDA's who wanted the Church to move toward that position to use those Ellen quotes as justification or proof that she was migrating away from her prior belief? I can see how Ellen may have been told to try to please EACH SIDE of the argument which would make sense if you were trying to hold your church together and trying to please each side. Hope your day at work goes well.

Let’s come back to Matthew 5:48. There is an issue in the translation of Matthew 5:48 (“Be ye therefore perfect,” KJV) that we need to look at. The original language here is not entirely clear. Is it a promise or is it a command? Does it read “you must be perfect,” or “you will be […] The post Matt 5:48: Command or Promise? (14:4) appeared first on Jon Paulien's Blog. View the full article

I worded it wrong and I apologize for my wording which came out in an unkind way. You have some tremendous insights that I agree with and that we studied at Atlantic Union College. We also studied how those same issues apply to the Bible. These are true facts and neutral facts. Choice Theory points out that we filter information through things such as our background and knowledge and values Among our teachers at AUC they were presented in a context of excitement about seeing how God works with us. When Walter Rea came to present his findings, unlike other Adventist communities which was devastated, his visit to AUC came and went without grief. We were excited that God so loved the world that he respected the knowledge that was already there, and how God works with people making him approachable and willing to work with someone like me. You bring up much of the same information, but unlike the joy and faith it inspired at AUC, you seem seem to present it as if you expect a prophet should be a bit more exciting and not as earthy and human.

Frank M. Hasel, writing in an article titled The Holy spirit: His Divinity and Personality," says: NOTE: For reasons, in part given below, when speaking about God, I prefer to use the term: "personal being." rather than the word "person."

Kevin, "Putting down Mrs. White" is a fool's errand and one I need to repent of. While true that I have a lot of issues with her entire theological scheme and certain details it may be because I have misunderstood her, i.e., I have done exactly what I accuse others of doing--reading her writings through the filter of my own prejudices. MR # 747 in MR vol 9 contains an article in which EGW mentions the law and gospel. It's likely that EGW was using the term "law" not to refer to the Decalogue but to the OT, just as Paul did in Romans 3. Whether the Decalogue or the OT in general, sinful man is condemned by the testimony of both. Of course, if I only understand the law to refer to the Decalogue and interpret EGW in that false light, she can hardly be blamed. Appreciate your comment.

This is a very hard question as Mrs. White was a Methodist and thus presumably a trinitarian and it would be hard to see her transitioning to a non-trinitarian view. This may be why the people who knew James White could remark that when ever they discussed the trinity he would refuse to comment and only listen, and why whenever he was the editor of the review there was an amazing drop in anti-trinity articles printed in the review. Mrs. White also wanted people to have people decide on the weight of evidence rather than from external control psychology. We on the other hand look for external control psychology in doing things. A lot of the Jewish traditions were developed because the scriptures were not specific enough and they wanted to have more details and they filled in the blanks. Mrs. White was not like that. She would from time to time nudge but she would not share things until the church was ready to discuss them. Now, you see elements that lead to trinitarian thought coming with the Great Controversy vision. She said that part of the issue of 1888 was her fault for not telling all about the Great Controversy. She became more blatant starting in Australia after giving two of her assistants assignments. She assigned W. W. Prescott to do a study on the Holy Spirit, and A. G. Daniels an assignment to do a similar study about Jesus. Prescott came to the conclusion that the Bible taught that the Holy Spirit was indeed God and believed that the Godhead consisted of God the Father and God the Spirit. Meanwhile Daniels came to the conclusion that the Bible taught that Jesus was indeed God and believed that the Godhead consisted of God the Father and God the Son. As the two men came and reported the findings of their studies to Mrs. White the two men realized that between them they have formed the teaching of the trinity and they became trinitarians. Mrs. White saw the solution of "The law the law the law until we were as dry as the hills of Giloba" to transfer from seeing God the Father (God as power, law, authority) as God in total to hold the tension between the three roles of the revelations of the infinite God to finite beings through the trinity. This leads to your quotes and last line "No mention of a third divine being here. " Your statement does not show an understanding of the roles and purposes of the trinity. The trinity is how the ONE infinite God made himself known to finite beings so that they could have the life giving relationship with him. If you don't mind me being frank, but it looks like you only want to accept the trinity if the concept of three divine beings was pushed upon you through external control psychology. You seem to be looking for three gods which you don't see and thus rightly reject. But it is one God too big for us to understand, so God needed to reveal information about himself that we could have some understanding of for the ability to have a life giving relationship. God the Father is the revelation that God is creator, power, law. If God only reveled himself as God the Father he would have scared his poor creatures to death. So he also needs to reveal himself as our dear precious friend, approachable. To exist creatures needed to hold in tension that their precious friend was also the great powerful creator and that this great powerful creator was also their close friend. Now God the Father and God the Son are both objective revelations of the infinite God. But both God and his creatures are both objective and subjective. The Holy Spirit is NOT pictured as "a third divine being here." because he would have to be another objective revelation to fill that position, while the Holy Spirit is God's revelation to our subjective.

That Great Shepherd ??? Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

I'm sorry but much of the food restrictions in the Bible was followed by other nations around them. Eventually the restrictions became highly ritualized and had loopholes that missed the health benefits.

The food type restrictions were not enjoined on Israel for "health reasons", they were enacted to help separate Israel from the surrounding peoples. You CAN'T generally fellowship with people you can't eat with. It's the same way today. All that separation terminated at the Resurrection of Christ.

Who are you kidding Gustave? I know you've read Leviticus Chapter Eleven. Shrimp do not have "fins and scales". Then again, there were not likely any "shrimp" - as we know them today, in any shallow "waters" the Israelites came across in the wilderness.

After 1896 "three" statements begin showing up frequently, especially in the context of baptismal vows. MS 57, 1900; Bible Commentary Vol. 6, pg 1074 "The work is laid out before every soul that has acknowledged his faith in Jesus Christ by baptism, and has become a receiver of the pledge from the three persons--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." MS 57, 1900 "The three great powers in heaven are witnesses; they are invisible but present." Ms11, 1901 "Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." . . . Then cooperate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf." Ms85, 1901 "have pledged ourselves to serve God, the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit--the three dignitaries and powers of heaven --" Sermons and Talks pg.366 pr1 1990 "Those who have been baptized can claim the help of the three great Worthies of heaven to keep them from falling" Bible Training School Mar1, 1906, pr2; Bible Commentary Volume 7A pg441 "There are three living persons of the heavenly trio. In the name of these three powers, --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will cooperate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ." This one was written in Mrs White's own handwriting. (Australasian) Union Conference Record April 1, 1901 "The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order to fully carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only begotten of God, should give Himself an offering for sin." This is the first time that the Holy Spirit is said to have given himself to the working out of the plan of redemption, along with the Father and the Son. Before this statement, only the Father and His Son are said to have agreed upon and covenanted together to carry out the plan of salvation. Compare these: ST June 17, 1903 pr.2 "The plan of salvation devised by the Father and the Son will be a grand success." RH Sept 13, 1906, pr.4 "Before the fall of man, the Son of God had united with his Father in laying the plan of salvation." ST Oct 10, 1892 pr1 "A covenant has been entered into by the Father and by the Son to save the world through Christ." ST May 17, 1905 pr5 "The Father and the Son in consultation decided that Christ must come to the world as a babe, and live the life that human beings must live from childhood to manhood," Ministry of Healing pg.429 "Even the angels were not permitted to share the counsels between the Father and the Son when the plan of salvation was laid. " RH Sept 24, 1908 pr1 "In the psalms, in the prophecies, in the gospels and in the epistles, God has by revelation made prominent the vital truths concerning the agreement between the Father and the Son in providing for the salvation of a lost race." Something definitely changed. It's almost as if two different people are writing. Mrs White went from two divine beings - God the Father and His Son, to three persons of a "heavenly trio". You can say she "grew" in her understanding. Or you can say she was confused by men like HC Lacey. I have dozens and dozens of quotations from her writings in a volume I published back in 1996. If anyone wants a copy, let me know. I will check into the cost of photocopying or digital copying. Rachel

Kevin H, What year/s do you see Mrs White transitioning to the Trinitarian view. YI 7/7/98 "The Father and the Son alone are to be exalted." Manuscript 124, 1903; Education pg.131 "The mighty power that works through all nature and sustains all things is not, as some men of science claim, merely an all-pervading principle, an actuating energy. God is a spirit; yet He is a personal being, for man was made in His image. As a personal being, God has revealed Himself in His Son. Jesus, the outshining of the Father's glory, and the express image of His person, was on earth found in fashion as a man." Manuscript 25, 1898; Manuscript Releases volume Three pg.425 "The Father and the Son rested after Their work of Creation. . . (text of Genesis 2:1-2) . . The death of Christ was designed to be at the very time in which it took place. It was in God's plan that the work which Christ had engaged to do should be completed on a Friday, and that on the Sabbath He should rest in the tomb, even as the Father and Son had rested after completing Their creative work." YI Dec 16, 1897 "From eternity there was a complete unity between the Father and the Son. They were two, yet little short of being identical; two in individuality, yet one in spirit, and heart, and character." RH Nov 8, 1898; Bible Commentary Vol.6 pg.1068 "There is a personal God, the Father; there is a personal Christ, the Son." RH July 19, 1892, pr.7 "It is the Father who 'so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.'" Bible Echo and Signs of the Times October 28, 1895 pr.4 "No man, nor even the highest angel, can estimate the great cost; it is known only to the Father and the Son." Regarding the Holy Spirit: Signs of the Times May17, 1899, pr.3 "He would send it. It was a representation of Himself, and after He was glorified it was manifest." Signs of the Times October 3, 1892 pr4 "Jesus is seeking to impress upon them the thought that in giving his Holy Spirit he is giving to them the glory which the Father has given him, that he and his people may be one in God." RH Nov 5, 1908 pr4 "The Father gave his Spirit without measure to his Son, and we also may partake of its fullness." The glorious dove at the baptism RH January 21, 1873 pr.5 "Direct from the Father issues the light of his glory. The heavens were opened, and beams of glory rested upon the Son of God and assumed the form of a dove, in appearance like burnished gold. The dove-like form was emblematical of the meekness and gentleness of Christ." RH Aug 18, 1874 pr.2 "The opening heavens, and descent of the heavenly dove, were assurances that his Father would unite his power in Heaven with that of his Son upon the earth. . . These tokens, received from his Father, were inexpressibly precious to the Son of God through all his severe sufferings, and terrible conflict with the rebel chief." No mention of a third divine being here.

Only because poultry farmers raise and slaughter them in unsanitary conditions. It's not the fault of the chicken meat. It's contamination. With the Oysters, the waste is already in the "animal". I can agree that Oysters, especially raised in clean water and fed special food, would be much better for human consumption.

5 Things You Didn't Know About Big Ben_2 On July 11, 1859, Big Ben, the great bell inside the famous London clock tower, chimed for the first time. Here are 5 things you probably didn't know about Big Ben.... Big Ben Is the Name of the Bell, Not the Tower or Clock Big Ben is thought to be named after an actual person, but it’s something of a mystery as to who this is. The major candidate is Sir Benjamin Hall, who was a huge man as well as a politician and engineer in the 19th century. After bloviating about what the bell should be named, he suggested “Big Ben” after himself, and his name is inscribed somewhere on the bell, so why not? The other Ben in the running as the namesake of the bell is Benjamin Caunt, who was a popular heavyweight boxer during that time period. Money Makes the Time Accurate Money may make the world go round, but it also makes the clock on Big Ben keep accurate time. Old British pennies are stacked on top of the clock’s pendulum to balance it, which makes its timekeeping more consistent and steadies its swing. By adding or taking away one of the coins, the clock’s time can be changed by 0.4 seconds each day, which might not sound like much but eventually would make everyone passing by look at their watches. Birds Managed to Change the Time in 1949 Starlings managed to change the time on the clock in 1949 when they decided that the minute hand on the clock would make a good perch. Apparently, so many of them landed on the minute hand, their weight slowed the clock down enough that it became four and one half minutes slow. It was unexplained how management corrected the situation, but it might have had something to do with a large cat that was especially agile. Big Ben Has Been Eerily Quiet Since 2017 Although the clock will continue displaying the time, the chimes of Big Ben have been silenced except for certain special occasions, and this is expected to continue until about 2021. This is because the entire clock tower is undergoing restoration, including the dismantling of the clock itself to clean and repair it, and a kitchen, elevator and toilet are being added. Visitors and locals can still hear Big Ben chime on New Year’s Eve and on other occasions that are special. The Structure Was Originally Called St. Stephen’s Tower Built in 1859, the tower that holds Big Ben was constructed following a fire in 1834, and it was named after the House of Commons meeting place, St. Stephen’s Hall. In 2012, the clock tower was renamed the Elizabeth Tower to honor the diamond jubilee of Elizabeth II.

In an earlier post, Kevin made the statement I have quoted below: That statement is of great value and should be understood by all. One of its points that Ellen White often used Scripture in a manner that was NOT an exegetical statement of the meaning of the passage she used.

Rather - individuals who trust the LORD to know what is best for us. He created oysters to be cleaning filters for bodies of water. Why would He want people to eat the filters from His sanitation plant.

See: https://spectrummagazine.org/interviews/2019/survivor-abuse-church-works-help-other-victims\ One interesting quote: Needing a bodyguard to attend church!

GHansen and Kevin H: Great, honest, open-minded posts. I appreciate them.

Jesus said "I and the Father are One". I agree - you can't have one without the other. While the Spirit is an integral part of God; it is the power , love, and grace of the Father and the Son; not a third entity. This continues to amaze me. God created the angelic host. One-third of them rebelled.He knew it would happen. Then He created humanity; and they rebelled. He knew it would happen. He sent His only begotten Son to die for us. More people than not refuse to accept His sacrifice. He knew that too. Yet, He guarantees a Kingdom of free-will beings who will never ever choose to sin again. This is one of the mysteries of the ages to me.

Oh, she NEVER saw herself as an inspired interpreter of scripture. She saw herself as an inspired applicator and inspired to help to point out parts of the Bible we should focus on (such as the 3 angels messages) but would NOT interpret these she left that job to us. It was not until the mid 1920s when in reaction to the 1922 General Conference and the rejection of the 1919 Washington D. C Bible conference before people started to call her an inspired commentary on the Bible or an inspired interpreter of scripture, and despite our understanding of the state of the dead, she probably still rolled over in her grave when that happened.

? God of peace ? 1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Much of these discussions seem to go in circles. And it is a topic that is splitting churches with many members walking and losing their faith. Half of my church walked out years ago, and even though seemingly leaving because of a false belief, one former member exhibited quite a bit of hostility even with threats of violence. We know little of the Holy Spirit, but we know enough. In fact, we only know enough about any of the Three as has been decided that we need to know. I have read many quotes in EGW writings admonishing us not to pry into God more than is revealed in Scripture. That said, there is a lot that people often do not even see. I find the statement regarding how the Holy Spirit will not talk of Himself as interesting. He seems to get little glory in the whole process of the salvation of people even though he is doing a lot of the work! There is a lesson there. People selfishly think if they do a lot they should be recognized. But I find that isn't the case. In fact, doing everything you should do is called your "reasonable service." Sometimes I suspect that there are different understandings of the word Trinity and from one group to another it means something different. As far as the Holy Spirit not being an intercessor, I do not understand how that can be because even we can be intercessors for each other. It seems to be one of the duties of a priest of which we are also. "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." Revelation 1:6 For those looking for more info, and missed last quarters SS lessons, you can download the quarterly here: http://ssnet.org/study-guides/lesson-archives/2010-2019/2017-q1-holy-spirit-and-spirituality/ The 4 week lesson on the Personality of the Holy Spirit may help in this discussion.