Leaderboard

In the following article, a retired denominational administrator, who has often challenged the denomination gives ten (10) reasons why he remains a Seventh-day Adventist. https://atoday.org/why-i-stay-in-the-church/

On the Sabbath: There is much in Jewish practice that relates to the Sabbath. One might argue that such is not binding on the Christian today and still argue that the Sabbath, as given to Adam and to Eve, has an application to Christians today. That could include a specific time-period for the Sabbath.

Hmmmm. Plowing, planting, harvesting, threshing, treading grapes or pressing olives, etc. etc. etc. Work!

The following article provides on view as to the efforts of the General Conference to control lower level organizations. https://atoday.org/roll-over-and-play-dead-general-conference-to-the-conferences/ NOTE: As a personal opinion, I believe that the above is an example of a rejection of the administrative advice that Ellen White gave the developing SDA denomination. To be clear: I believe that if Ellen White were alive today, her voice would be raised to call for a rejection of the attempts that some are making to centralize authority in this denomination.

I believe that God instructed the antediluvians as well as Noah and the postdeluvians of the Law. Israel "forgot" the Law in the 400 years of slavery in Egypt - surrounded by a pantheon of false gods and mystic ritual. God needed to reintroduce Israel to the Law - just like He had to reintroduce Himself to them - when they left Egypt. God's Law (at least the "10") is eternal. It has existed since God said "Let there be light". It may not have been codified until Sinai, but it still existed.

Are you equating "moral" with "natural" ? Cause I don't think those two things are the same. Man's nature is carnal, therefore immoral. Man will "naturally" do what he can get away with, UNLESS indwelt by the Spirit of God. The indwelling is stronger than our carnal nature, which allows us to live "morally". Why does it matter exactly WHEN the LORD reminded human beings (a few of them) about His special rest day? If the LORD declared the 7th Day "holy" - set apart for the LORD, at creation - the day after creating Adam and Eve, I would assume He told Adam about it. Where did Moses get the creation account that he wrote down? I think there's a verse that says Moses consulted other sources. If human beings then forgot a whopping lot of the LORD's work, I think the LORD would reintroduce it slowly, first calling Abraham and establishing a relationship with him, then going on to Jacob, finally to the rescue of Israel from Egypt, then the revelation of his "Law". And even that was not a FULL revelation. The first human beings were offering animal "sacrifices". Right? When Cain brought plants, the LORD rejected his offering. I think it can be assumed that Adam had some instruction about this, and had passed that instruction on to Cain and Abel. Job offered sacrifices for his children, in case they had sinned. Job lived about he same time as Abraham, perhaps earlier. How did Job know what was sin and what wasn't, and what to offer as "burnt offerings" ? Because the Bible does not specifically say "Shem instructed Job, doesn't mean he didn't. Their actions say they were "instructed" by someone.

Who or what is the beast in Revelation 13:1-10? And who or what is the beast in Revelation 17:7? Are they the same beast or different beasts? Perhaps a word study would help make it clear re Rev 17:7-8? 7 ¶ And <2532> the angel <32> said <2036> (5627) unto me <3427>, Wherefore <1302> didst thou marvel <2296> (5656)? I <1473> will tell <2046> (5692) thee <4671> the mystery <3466> of the woman <1135>, and <2532> of the beast <2342> that carrieth <941> (5723) her <846>, which <3588> hath <2192> (5723) the seven <2033> heads <2776> and <2532> ten <1176> horns <2768>. 8 The beast <2342> that <3739> thou sawest <1492> (5627) was <2258> (5713), and <2532> is <2076> (5748) not <3756>; and <2532> shall <3195> (5719) ascend <305> (5721) out of <1537> the bottomless pit <12>, and <2532> go <5217> (5721) into <1519> perdition <684>: and <2532> they that dwell <2730> (5723) on <1909> the earth <1093> shall wonder <2296> (5695), whose <3739> names <3686> were <1125> <0> not <3756> written <1125> (5769) in <1909> the book <975> of life <2222> from <575> the foundation <2602> of the world <2889>, when they behold <991> (5723) the beast <2342> that was <3748> <2258> (5713), and <2532> is <2076> (5748) not <3756>, and yet <2539> is <2076> (5748). Ge 1:2 And the earth <0776> was <01961> (8804) without form <08414>, and void <0922>; and darkness <02822> [was] upon the face <06440> of the deep <08415>. And the Spirit <07307> of God <0430> moved <07363> (8764) upon <05921> the face <06440> of the waters <04325>. Jer 4:23 I beheld <07200> (8804) the earth <0776>, and, lo, [it was] without form <08414>, and void <0922>; and the heavens <08064>, and they [had] no light <0216>. bottomless pit (12)=1) bottomless, unbounded [{Ge 1:2 Isa 44:27 Job 41:31 }] 2) the abyss, the pit, the immeasurable depth 3) of Orchus, very deep gulf or chasm in the lowest parts of the earth [{Ps 71:20 }] 4) the common receptacle of the dead [{Ro 10:7 }] and especially as the abode of demons form (80414) = 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness 1a) formlessness (of primeval earth) 1a1) nothingness, empty space 1b) that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (fig) 1c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places) 1d) place of chaos 1e) vanity Void (0922)=1) emptiness, void, waste deep (08415)=1) deep, depths, deep places, abyss, the deep, sea 1a) deep (of subterranean waters) 1b) deep, sea, abysses (of sea) 1c) primeval ocean, deep 1d) deep, depth (of river) You are welcome

I thought it was a joke as well, maybe sort of a test and if you agreed you couldn't get into the cult. There were a bunch of people passing out pamphlets in Seattle less than a year ago claiming that ones eternal salvation would be determined on whether you accepted "the creator God" or the false God of the round earth!

Grafted into Israel in ONLY the Sense that we are enabled to lay claim to the promise made to Abraham NOT that we might become Jews to become Christians. I think I just figured out somewhat of where you're coming from.

Seems you were the one who brought it up as something to be considered to be done today! I can show you many many reasons not to do it and any reason you can come up with to justify it can be quickly knocked down.

Another thing - The OT priests would examine the sacrifice - not the sinner. With 20/20 hindsight, this is a big clue to me that the Father looks at the perfection of the sacrifice - His Son - rather than the perfection of the confessing sinner. Priests can't override the perfection of the sacrifice by refusing absolution.

Ezekiel 47:21 "You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe a foreigner resides, there you are to give them their inheritance," declares the Sovereign LORD." (NIV) Ezekiel is writing about the Kingdom after the "return" to "the land" promised. After the miraculous river of life is flowing from the new Temple of God, and everything is coming back to life. We Gentiles (as well as Jews) "inherit" only "in Christ". He is the inheritor. We share in His inheritance. He is the only one who fulfilled the terms of the covenant promising "the land". The "foreigners" are those "grafted in" to Israel, because they believe in Messiah. These Gentiles are treated "as native-born Israelites". We are all traveling together, living together - those who believe in God and His Son. Whatever is still valid for the "native born" is valid for the "foreigners" living among them. The Sabbath Ezekiel 46:1 "'This is what the sovereign LORD says: The gate of the inner court that faces east will be closed six working days, but on the Sabbath day it will be opened and on the day of the new moon it will be opened." (NET) This is Ezekiel's vision of a future day when Israel would be settled in the land and Jerusalem would be restored. I believe this will be the 8th millennium. Joe thinks it will be the 7th. Whichever - it is a future day, beyond Paul's day or ours - and "the Sabbath" is still special.

For me its not so much a problem making friends or wanting to have more friends, etc. I do the same, I think about why don't I have more friends, but than I think well I'm 70 now and I don't have the willingness to go out like I did when in my 30s, 40s! Back than I was working, than out playing baseball, basketball, doing things with the kids, family, traveling, etc. Now we have all we can do to take care of the house, car, etc. Also if they live close enough, we have family that we help take care of they homes too. Like the past number of years when my Mom was alive, I had our house and hers to cut grass, fix things that start to break down and this all as we age. And even if we are lucky enough to be healthy, we still slow down as we age. For me I have my grandkids now to take care of and raise. So for me I'm busy enough that I'd rather not have anymore friends, because than your obligated to visit or entertain!! No I think I'd rather not have anymore friends. ? And if we are into witnessing for God then we have those hours to be with others too!!

Perhaps we're not understanding each other here. I'm not asserting that Deut 5 is describing a New Covenant in the sense of something additional to Horeb. I'm saying that Deut 5 is more detailed description of the Horeb Covenant.

Jesus turned water - a very simple H2O, to wine - a very complex molecule. The servants saw Him do it - instantly. The "master of the feast", who had not seen Him do it, thought it was wine from grapes carefully trod and sieved and aged, from grapevines years old. The principle is the same. God made "the heavens and the earth" in six days. Those who didn't see Him do it, think it must have reached its present state over billions of years. Point is. He did it. No one saw Him do it.

There are several reasons why I believe the late Thursday arrest scenario carries more weight. I believe the "clock" for the "three days and 3 nights" began when Jesus said, "This is your hour and the power of darkness" to the guards who came to arrest Him. "In the heart of the earth" = "in the heart of Jerusalem" - not just in the grave. He was "thrown overboard" at that moment, just like Jonah was thrown off the boat into the dark deep. It's not as if the characters in this drama lived far from each other, and they were in a hurry. Night trials were illegal. They had planned it. Passover was on a Friday, in 33AD. The Feast of Unleavened Bread would have been eaten on Friday nite (which began the 7th Day Sabbath). Jesus "rested" over the Sabbath, and was awakened by His Father at dawn of Sunday (the third day). When you describe it this way, it seems like a lot, but things can move very fast when evil men are very motivated. Political things had changed for Pilate, and he was seeking to please the Jews. When the leaders yelled "no friend of Caesar" that tipped the scale very quickly. I don't know how long the flogging usually took - 40 lashes - perhaps half hour at most. I think weight must be given to the things He did during the week preceding His death. For instance, staying at Zacchaeus' house over the Sabbath, rather than walk 12 miles uphill to Bethany on the Sabbath day. Walking up to Bethany on Sunday, the feast that nite, then riding into Jerusalem on Monday. Each day has events given. Here is link to my study on this: https://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/45-Three-Days-Nights.htm

As far as I know there is no example in Scripture where the term "fathers" excludes the actual dads from the line of forefathers, as you have asserted without any supporting evidence. Your interpretation of what Moses said requires that the dads be skipped over in preference to distant ancestors, but your interpretation is quite different from what the individuals listening to Moses would have understood. Moses specifically said that he was speaking to ALL of the Israelites alive and present that day. There isn't a need of a new covenant in Deuteronomy 5 because the point of what Moses is saying in verse 2 is that the covenant already made at Horeb belongs to ALL of the Israelites of all generations. My point was that Moses was using a non-literal figure of speech to emphasize the fact that in God's eyes the covenant is not exclusive to, nor more applicable to, the generations of Israelites that actually stood at Horeb, but applies to each subsequent generation of Israelites as if each generation stood at Horeb personally, including the two generations of Israelites to whom Moses was speaking who had not been at Horeb. So the covenant made at Horeb applies to Jesus and to Benjamin Netanyahu just as much as it applied to Caleb and Joshua.

How easily Jesus could have used His power to blot out His tormentors at the cross. And He knew, moreover, that if He used His power, the people would be pleased. They would follow Him, but for the wrong reason. The people were looking for a Messiah that would use His power to conquer their […] The post The Cross and Satan’s Deceptions (17:2) appeared first on Jon Paulien's Blog. View the full article

Just Israelites. You think "the Law of Christ" does not include the Rest of the 7th Day?

I agree. Until we are with Him in the earth made new, we will not "perfectly" have His law written on our hearts.

You think that Christ has a different law, from His Father? I don't. Christ had to fulfill the Law of Moses perfectly, in order to be the perfect sacrifice - in order to recover dominion of the earth. Are you saying that once Christ fulfilled "the law of Moses", He then set "The Covenant" (the Ten) aside, or retained only part of it?

Define "Israel". If you define "Israel" as "those of physical DNA descent from Jacob, then you'd have an argument. But the Israel of God includes all those of faith, and does not include those without "belief" in the Son of God. You and I and all who believe are "grafted in" to Israel (the Tree of Romans 11). We have become Israelites - by faith. Which means the Sabbath is a sign between God and us. Paul said, "For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel." (Rom 9:6) God made believing Gentiles part of Israel (as if circumcised) and he made unbelieving Jews NOT part of Israel ("because of unbelief they were broken off") even though they had been circumcised. Israel is still the name of God's Covenant keeping people. "All Israel" (all those left attached to the Tree), and only Israel - will be saved. Which is why the gates into the Holy City are named for the 12 tribes of Israel. I've no idea which tribe I've been "grafted in" to. I'll find out one day.

Re: circumcision Romans 2:26 "If therefore the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?" (NAS) Question is: What "requirements of the Law" was the uncircumcised man keeping, for him to be regarded (in the eyes of God) as circumcised (and therefore a citizen of Israel)? He wasn't traveling to Jerusalem for the moed. He wasn't offering blood sacrifices. No atonement was being made for him, by Aaronic priests. So what requirements - of the Law? Those "requirements" had to those mentioned in "the Law". (Which does support those "requirements" are continually binding.) He could certainly have been keeping The Ten Commandments - if the LORD was filling that man with His spirit and writing His law on that man's heart. And the man would be regarded as "grafted in" to Israel, because that man was keeping the Covenant. Exodus 34:28 "So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments." (NAS) It's called "the Ark of the Covenant" because the two stone tablets were carried around in that golden box. All the way to Revelation - it's still His Covenant. Revelation 11:19 "Then the temple of God in heaven was opened and the ark of His covenant was visible within his temple. And there were flashes of lightning, roaring, crashes of thunder, an earthquake, and a great hailstorm." Strongly suggests "The Ten" are continually/forever binding. I'm so glad the LORD wrote His Sabbath command on the stones. It makes the argument a lot easier.

The Son of God was coming for all mankind. The prophecies acted out by Israel were to be fulfilled by that Son of God, therefore those prophecies were given for all mankind. Here I am, an American of English heritage, living far from the Middle East. Yet I read those acted prophecies, and my faith in Jesus Christ as the One who was to come, is strengthened. Also my faith in the Bible, and my understanding of God's foreknowledge. Those prophecies were given - for me too.

The book of Revelation describes not only God’s last pleading with His children (Rev 14:6-12) but also Satan’s final effort to deceive (Rev 13:12-18). Though Jesus “saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18), the defeated enemy of God and man still “prowls around like a roaring lion” (1 Peter 5:8), knowing that his […] The post Chapter Seventeen: “Satan’s Final Effort to Deceive” (17:1) appeared first on Jon Paulien's Blog. View the full article

They were "added" due to the transgression of all mankind.

Hmmm. I thought the SDAs came up with that word "ceremonial" law. It was the Catholics! Interesting. The Catholics certainly have added a load of ceremonial laws themselves. Confession to a Catholic priest, mass, trans-substitution, last rites, baptism of infants, baptism by sprinkling, confirmation, images, prayers to dead saints, etc. etc. None of it taught in the Bible. And you think the law of God to Moses was loaded with "ceremony". Hmmmm

Ancient Israel was "chosen" by God, to portray (through the commands they carried out) an acted prophecy of Messiah. Instead of saying something like, "I am going to send the perfect Messiah to die at 3pm on the 14th day of Nissan", God command them to act it out. Exodus 12:5 'Your lamb shall be an unblemished male a year old; you may take it from the sheep or from the goats. 6 'And you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight. 7 'Moreover, they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses in which they eat it. 8 'And they shall eat the flesh that same night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. 9 'Do not eat any of it raw or boiled at all with water, but rather roasted with fire, both its head and its legs along with its entrails. 10 'And you shall not leave any of it over until morning, but whatever is left of it until morning, you shall burn with fire." (NAS) 1Corinthians 5:7 "For our Passover has been sacrificed, that is, Christ;" The Passover lambs were sacrificed at 3PM. Christ died at 3PM in fulfillment of the prophecy. He was resurrected by His Father, and ascended to present Himself before His Father in heaven on the Feast of Firstfruits. 1 Corinthians 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." (KJV) Trace it right on through. Every command for every moed, was a prophecy of Christ. I have absolutely no problem with the method God used to give us a prophecy of His Son. Acted story telling was something well know in the ancient world. What's wrong with acted prophecy?