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The problem with focusing on the beast is that we have traditions that have grown around the truth. Mrs. White goes beyond the Pope and while she sees the Pope being involved, she sees the bigger issue of liberty of conscious. Sadly, we have not grown with her. When ever we read where she makes a comment like "Liberty of conscious" we have a spell and grammar check and corrector between our eyes and brain and turn those words into "Sunday law." She tells us that Sunday issues and the Sabbath will bring issues to the Christian world, but everyone, both inside the Christian world and outside the Christian world will be facing issues regarding liberty of conscious. When we focus on the beast, we tend to focus on our traditions of what we expect to happen, just as in World War 1 many Adventists were focused on traditions about Turkey, which came and went without our traditions being met. Satan loves to work with our traditions to make us miss the message. But when we focus on Jesus, we will be ready no matter how the last day events turn out. Reading this thread I am reminded of something Billy Graham said. He told how his wife was talking with government agents who look for counterfeit money. She said "You must spend hours studying counterfeit bills" The agent replied "No, we spend hours studying real bills and we are able to spot a counterfeit like this" and snapped his fingers.

Whether it's an evangelistic series by an SDA, Catholic, Baptist, or any other denomination, mass evangelism - especially the 5 nights per week for six weeks type, don't work anymore by my experience. The last several I have supported resulted in very few non SDA's finishing the series, even fewer being baptized, and almost none staying in the church long-term. I find one-on-one evangelism far more effective.

As I look at some of the developments going on in the world, and within "the church," I am increasingly amazed, and alarmed to see how many people find such resplendent attraction to anything that they think can be attached to "the beast" of Bible prophecy. There is a lot of counsel against this sort of thing, but we just keep seeing more and more by the day. Why are there not testimonies about this happening in our lives? (Rev 12:10-11). here are just two specific examples: Doug Batchelor Beast Watch "Ministry." I was very disappointed to see so little talk of Jesus in this BEASTwatch business he is flustering us all with. 3 ABN BEASTwatch "Ministry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFQYA2uyOYc this dude "warns" everyone so that they can "stand firm," but never really says one word about exactly what/who to stand firm on, or one word about Jesus, but plenty of static on BEASTwatching "prophecy" news. IMO, we have reached the miserable times in Bible prophecy, best described by the following: I have decided to call such ones out, and that its time to call what they are doing, exactly what it is. BEASTwatch. "Specialty Ministries" of watching the BEAST. There is no other better description available. Now, I do not take lightly what I am doing here, as I do believe what the Bible teaches, and I have had some pastors over the years remind me of what happened to all those young men who made fun of Pastor Elijah when they called him "baldhead..." (2 Kings 2:23). As if to say that thats what will happen to me for calling anyone out or questioning a Pastor. And normally, I would not usually consider calling anyone out specifically, by name, and publically. But enough is enough. One of the more frightening aspects of this kind of thing happening is that it would appear many are adopting what Pastor Doug is saying here as "truth," just for the simple reason that it came from him. A quick look at the You Tube Comments under many of the videos concerned will show this very well. I seriously wonder how many passing this "message" around have taken the time to thoroughly look into it for themselves, or to see what "end time truth" actually looks like in the Bible; and how said truths can and should be affecting the believer? (think 1 John 1:1-3, 1 John 5:11-12, John 12:32, etc). This incessant sensationalization of bad things in the Bible that we are seeing everywhere now, to me, is a worse sin than being a Pope! The Adventist BEASTwatchers have crossed the line; and I fear that there will be no turning back now. The damage has already been done; and the cold, hard results are following in the wake of all manner of BEASTwatchers. "the love of many will wax COLD..." What? You thought that this doesnt include anyone "in the church?" "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." The eternal Word became flesh, and dwelt among us. This theme will quench unbelief; and yet, sad to say, Jesus has been dropped out of many discourses that have been preached by Seventh-day Adventist ministers. And why?--Because the ministers had not Jesus abiding in the heart by faith; they were not clothed with Christ's righteousness. Jesus could not lead them by the side of still waters, and into the green pastures of his matchless love, because they would not be led. They had not the love of Jesus in their hearts, and it is the love of Jesus that, as a golden chain, binds our hearts in tenderest sympathy with humanity, and brings us into complete unity with every soul who believes. The Spirit of Jesus in my heart will recognize Jesus in the hearts of my brethren and sisters. Our prayers and hopes are one. {ST, October 17, 1892 par. 1} The basic purpose of this topic is to take an extended look at whats happening in our church and at what the Bible & other writings have to say about "BEASTwatching;" in general. This all begs the other question: As I purview Pastor Doug's incremental dissections of all things "Pope," I am reminded of the following: Pastor Doug calls what he is doing: Well, my first question is WHY? Why is there so little talk of Jesus when we talk about Bible prophecy? The Bible itself tells us that prophecy is a light that shines in a dark place," (2 Pet 1:19), and so why is it that all we keep hearing about are the latest manouvers of the "BEASTwatch movement, sporting themselves as purveyors of "truth" that has no room left for Jesus? Jesus is the Light of the world, and so that light that shines in the darkest places has got to be Jesus! I don't care if everything the messenger says is true; which in some cases it actually is. THAT still does not prove that we should make more room for BEASTwatching, than we do for JESUSwatching! (see John 1:29) We are not told to "behold the beast!" And to tell people all about the beast! We are told to behold Jesus! We are told to talk of Him; but instead, many are insolent enough to mostly insist on talking about BEASTwatching. Thats all we ever hear about from many now. But just watch how fast their eye brows furl when you try to question them about it! I wonder how many people that know me would say such things about me? Mark Of The Beast Or Jesus? https://adventistan.com/forums/topic/77539-mark-of-the-beast-or-jesus/ Perhaps there is more than meets the eyes, with why Pastor Doug has had to strike out on his own, and not have his ministry under the auspices of the church? We are seeing such things happen right before our own eyes... I dont want to "excite indignation" against anybody. But I felt I had to name some in order to explain the point being made. All I know is that I dont want any of those "wasted opportunities" under my name anymore, nor under any of the names of my friends/family, neighbors, etc.

I agree that in some countries (3rd world and developing countries), mass evangelism may still be somewhat effective but in industrialized, secular leaning countries like the USA and Canada, not so much. In all countries, friendship evangelism - "discipling" people (teaching them by word and example over time) - works much better than a few weeks of evangelism and then vanishing. I also agree that putting the focus on the love, grace, and sacrifice of Jesus (teaching people to love and obey Him) is much more effective that teaching them to fear Jesus because "Jesus is coming soon; and boy is he MAD!"

I wish that the church would give up on the apocalyptic hysteria and the pope-watching, but I won't hold my breath. So much emotional capital has been invested in the Pope=Beast paradigm that I'm not sure the church will ever be able to move on. Amen. Not only do these beast-based evangelistic series not work, but the sorts of people who are drawn in by them often are mentally unstable and tend to have a propensity to fall for conspiracy theories of all sorts. Of course our church should be welcoming and open to all, including the conspiracy-theory types, but we aren't really helping them by feeding their obsessions.

I agree the one to one ministry is essential. But I also think that there is a place for large evangelistic campaigns; if they were to have a greater focus on Jesus, than "the beast," know what I mean?

Promise His hands make whole Job 5:18 For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.

5 Things You Didn't Know About Mark Twain April 21, 1910 marked the death of Samuel Clemens, or, as he's better known today, Mark Twain. Here are 5 things you probably didn't know about the author of the novels 'Adventures of Tom Sawyer' and 'Adventures of Huckleberry Finn’... The Name Mark Twain Is Boating Jargon Twain’s real name was Samuel Langhorne Clemens, but he decided to write under an alias. He tried a few, such as Sergeant Fathom and Thomas Jefferson Snodgrass, before settling on Mark Twain. The name in boating language means two fathoms, which equals water that is 12-feet deep. It’s been rumored that he came up with the name because he was a steamboat pilot, but another theory is he used to yell “Mark Twain” when he went into a bar, which meant he wanted two drinks. Twain Invented a Memory Game While Twain was procrastinating about working on “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn,” he was busily inventing a new game. He intended it to be a game to play outdoors, but it ended up a board game because that was more marketable. Unfortunately, it was complex and players had to be brainiacs to play it, so the game was patented but never produced. One critic compared the game to a mash-up of an income tax form and a logarithm table. Mark Twain Was Captured on Film Thomas Edison, a good friend of Mark Twain, captured him on film footage shot in 1909, which was only a year before the famous author died. Twain is seen sporting his walrus mustache and dressed in a light-colored suit, and appears with his two daughters in one scene. At another time, Edison made a recording of Twain reading stories, but those were lost in a fire. Twain was also friends with Nikola Tesla, and he even patented some things of his own, including detachable clothing straps. Twain Loved Cats So Much He Rented Them If Twain had been a woman, he certainly would have been called a “cat lady” because he owned 19 of the furry felines and had a high opinion of them compared to humans. He missed his pets when he was traveling, so he would actually pay to rent a few when he was out of town. The names he came up for his cats were, as one might expect, imaginative and included Blatherskite, Sour Mash, Soapy Sal, Satan, and Buffalo Bill. Twain Accurately Predicted When He Would Die The author was born in 1835 on the day Halley’s Comet passed by our planet on November 30. The comet only passes approximately every 75 years, and Twain predicted that he came into the world when Halley's Comet arrived and would leave the world when it passed by again. He was right and died of an apparent heart attack on April 21, 1910, the day after the comet made its next appearance.

persecution NOUN hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of race or political or religious beliefs. We tend to think of persecution in terms of physical violence, but the definition goes further.

There is an exception to what lI have stated above, that applies to some people and has applied to me in the past. As a chaplain for he U.S. Army, I was supervised by Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries (ACM), which for me was mostly located in the General Conference. Under the present organization of the SDA Church, ACM in both the General Conference and in the North American Division might be involved in supervising me as an Army chaplain. So, if a Conference President had questions about my ministry for the U.S. Army , in the area of the Local Conference, that President would need to take it up with ACM. However, if I stepped outside of the area of my military ministry, I was under the authority of the Local Conference President, and I was expected to follow that policy.

In response to Photodude: Doug Batchelor was not singled out for persecution. There is a world-wide standard of clergy behavior that exists in both written form and common practice. That applies to all. It applies to official organizations such as Hope TV, and to independent ones such as 3ABN and "It Is Written," which has recently become an independent organization. It applies to individuals, including clergy who are credentialed by the General Conference (as I have been), or credentialed by lower organizations. It applies to retired clergy, including those presently credentialed, such as me. This policy, briefly stated, as practiced, provides for the following: * The Local Conference President is in overall charge of SDA ministry, in the geographic area assigned to that Local Conference. * No person or organization will conduct public ministry in that geographic area without the permission of the Local Conference President. * No person will speak in a SDA Church absent the permission of the Local Conference President. In actual practice, in North America, the Local Conference President will allow the local pastor to determine what local people may speak in the congregations that the pastor is in charge of. But, the expectation remains that any attempt to bring in a speaker from either outside the local area, or from an organization will be coordinated with the Local Conference President. This applies to me: As a result, I keep in regular contact with any Conference President in the area where I life and/or work. When I am approached by a local pastor with a request for ministry, my first response is to ask if that has been coordinated with the Conference. If it has not been, I tell the Pastor to do so. [NOTE: Once I have been give overall permission, I do not require further requests.] In addition, I coordinate my ministry so that I do not work in conflict with the policy of the Conference. I will be the first to say that this overall policy, is not fool-proof, and is not always complied with. In addition, there are aspects of the policy that can not easily be enforced. But, Some responsibility rests upon the local pastor. That pastor must comply early on, well before plans are made to bring in an a person/organization either as a speaker or to run some meetings. In any case, there is a method to resolve any issues. In one country where I once lived and worked, as an Army Chaplain, Some had some concerns about me (Surprised ?). They voiced their concerns. A decision was made. I preached and baptized in that country. Folks, Doug Batchelor knows the policy.

Well, my first question is WHY? There is a recommendation in SOP that we be students of history and current events. Since a significant portion of Daniel & Revelation is concerned with understanding the beast and end time events, it seems that we have been given permission and encouragement to know what is going on in the events occurring around us. We do need a proper balance in all studies. Also it is important to remember that even if we are studying the beast, Revelation is a revelation of Jesus Christ. He seems to be missing in most discussions of the beast.

So says a man who lived naked in a cave above Hollywood.

5 Lesser Known Facts About The American Revolution_3 On April 19, 1775, the American Revolution began when American and British soldiers exchanged fire at Concord and Lexington. Here are 5 things you probably never heard about the American Revolutionary War… The Colonists Were Not Originally Seeking Independence When the American Revolution began in 1775, colonialists were more interested in greater self-government than they were with separating from the British Empire. In fact, in the petition to King George III, the Continental Congress appealed to him for protection and assured him that independence was not an objective of the colonists. The colonists’ attitude changed when the king and ministers of Britain rebuffed them, so many thought their only option was to strive for independence. The Boston Tea Party Had a Sequel We all know about the initial incident on December 16, 1773, when Boston’s Sons of Liberty dressed as Mohawk Indians and tossed 342 chests of tea from three ships into the Boston Harbor to protest the taxes imposed in the Tea Act. But we forget that they felt the need to hammer the point home with a second party, on March 7, 1774 — probably because they grabbed only 16 chests of tea. George Washington Returned British General Howe's Dog to Him After A Battle At the Battle of Germantown, 150 of Washington’s men were killed, 500 wounded, and 400 taken prisoner. But George Washington didn’t lose his sense of good manners with the battle. A fox terrier appeared in the American’s camp that was wearing a tag with British General Howe’s name as the owner. Washington promptly returned the dog back to Howe along with the following polite note (likely written by Alexander Hamilton): To General William Howe General Washington’s compliments to General Howe. He does himself the pleasure to return [to] him a dog, which accidentally fell into his hands, and by the inscription on the collar appears to belong to General Howe. The Secretary of War Trained Himself by Reading Henry Knox was a bookstore apprentice and opened his own store in 1771, where he read books on fortification construction, military tactics and even how to target artillery. He joined the local militia in Boston in 1772, and after the harbor was shut off for trade by the Boston Port Act, he and his spouse sneaked over to the other side of the river where he joined the revolutionary forces. Washington was impressed with his knowledge of homemade fortifications, and Knox became his chief artillery officer and was later appointed as the country’s first Secretary of War. A Woman Disguised Herself as a Man and Served During the War Massachusetts born Deborah Sampson, who was taller than most men at the time, was one of a few women who saw military combat during the War of Independence and proved to be an excellent soldier. Using the name Robert Shurtliff, she enlisted in the army with the 4th Massachusetts Regiment and was wounded in the leg by two musket balls at a battle in Tarrytown before she was discovered after having served for about three years. She was honorably discharged on October 25, 1783, after a physician discovered she wasn’t a male when he treated her for an illness.

See: https://spectrummagazine.org/news/2020/general-conference-executive-committee-zooms-spring-meeting