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The Satanic Temple has been given permission to hold after-school club meetings at a Bakersfield elementary school. Further information on this may be found in the following article. NOTE: An Internet search on this subject finds that such club meetings are being held in schools in other States. In my opinion, this illustrates the danger in allowing religious clubs to operate in a public school system. Once you allow, you cannot discriminate. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/e2-80-98after-school-satan-club-e2-80-99-coming-to-california-elementary-school-has-parents-in-uproar/ar-AA14nQQy

catholic Europe (yes, small "c") your religion tended to be where you were born. In the Middle East and North Africa it became the different groups of Islam; then we had areas that were Eastern Orthodox, Western Roman Catholics, and the Reformed Western Roman Catholics (Protestants); and here and there pockets of Jews which could be kicked out whenever. If you wanted to practice differently from the geography religion where you lived you either had to move or risk being persecuted. As Protestantism broke into more sections, people such as the Puritans came over to the Americas to make a geography for their religion, thus a continuation of catholic Europe. Then Roger Williams bought the state of Rhode Island with a crazy idea of liberty of conscience. William Penn wanted Pennsylvania to be a spot of catholic Europe for Quakers; but could not get enough Quakers to settle the area, so Penn took Roger William's liberty of conscience to Pennsylvania. The idea of liberty of conscience began to spread, especially in the Americas. Now, I don't know the year and if Roger William's thought influenced this, but we also started to see a break away from catholic Europe in the first settlement for Maryland, which had the state religion of Roman Catholic, however, did something very non-Catholic. On the one side of town they had all the public buildings; then you had the homes, and on the other end of town was the church. In the French Revolution, the French tried to make the French religion of catholic Europe to be secular humanism. Originally the first amendment was for no national religion for the whole country, but the states could continue their state churches. There were the ideas of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison to apply Roger Williams liberty of conscience to the whole country. When Jefferson became president people though he was going to come and take their Bibles, so many were hidden. People feared that Jefferson would follow the idea of the French Revolution and that the American religion would be enforced secular humanism. However, as liberty of conscience was implemented, churches came to realize that they had more freedom then ever before when they were paid for by and controlled the state. Liberty of conscience became part of our American freedoms. American became an open market place for religions to share what they have to offer and people out of informed consent choose the religion they found the most reasonable. A nation without king or pope. I never thought of this before; but I just got the idea that maybe we can say that America's traditional religion is Williams/Jefferson/Madison liberty of conscience, as opposed to saying that we are a Christians or a Secular nation. In recent decades there has been a growing trend to either make the United States pre-revolution catholic Europe, Sadly, I've heard that General Flynn made a statement of "One Nation, One Religion". Pushing for Evangelical Christianity to be the national religion. And we are finding others wanting to make the United States a post French Revolution secularism; where only secularism is in the open and your religious beliefs need to be kept to yourself; "Freedom From Religion" thus destroying Jefferson's open marketplace of thought including religion. In the 1800s there were people who were very grounded in the ideas of the American Revolution, especially as applied through the thoughts of Jefferson/Madison, only instead of focusing this on to politics, they focused it on to other aspects of life, including religious people applying this to religion. Before his conversion William Miller was one of these to apply this to other aspects of life, as well as politics. Then came his conversion, and the Adventist ideas that began with Joachim of Fiore, developed through the Franciscans, and Wycliff, influenced the developing Reformation, became an Adventist movement in England in the 1700s (which Sir Isaac Newton was a member) jumped the pond and in the American version this idea became welded in the minds of Miller and others to the ideals of the American Revolution, including Williams/Jefferson/Madison's liberty of conscience, and became Millerism, from which came Seventh-day Adventism. Often we start with Miller, but we would not have had adventism were it not for the ideas of someone like Joachim of Fiore, and Seventh-day Adventism would have looked a lot different were it not for Rogers/Jefferson/Madison as shaped by the age of Jackson. This background of Miller that he had when he embraced Adventism Christianity gave the Seventh-day Adventist church a larger seeing the foundational and critical importance of liberty of conscience. In addition to how those two ideas were welded together in Miller and others of the time; Millerism had influenced many denominations who had creeds that defined their beliefs. As Millerites were thrown out of their many different beloved churches for their love of Adventism as well and thus did not fit the creed; they decided to form a church where instead of a defining creed; they would have a handful of landmarks, but as long as they were not fanatical, they were free to follow the Bible to their understanding. For example, while some religions formed around that time had questions about the trinity, those other churches made their questioning of the trinity a test of fellowship. Although many of our members held similar questions, we did NOT make this a test of fellowship. You were free to become a Seventh-day Adventist whether you were or were not a trinitarian. (Later, the the trinity became the heart of Mrs. White's great controversy philosophy, and as the key to dealing with the 1888 crisis) From time to time we would give a list of beliefs more detailed than the landmarks; but instead of them being a ridged creed defining who we are; these lists were "This is the general neighborhood of beliefs where you will tend to pretty much find us" and these were purposefully written in fairly vague language to be as inclusive as possible. As we formed the 27 (later the 28) our leaders continued this same tradition- however some of them wrote an accompanying book which spelled out in clearer language how they HOPED we would understand the 27, but the vague, flexible 27 was the official and the book the suggested. (As you can guess, I get nervous when there are motions to make the language of the 28 to be made less vague.) What we have seen in this story is an application of Revelation 12, 13 and 14. The dragon in Revelation 12 is the historical chaos monster. The French Revolution's definition of freedom being the absence of law leads to chaos. Spiritualism is that you have your truth and I have mine. The philosophy of Existentialism where truth is defined by your personal existential experience. The first deception of Satan of God is really not God and thus has no right to place a law over us. In Revelation 13 we have a beast that we tend to make the pope, the pope, the pope and the Catholics. But this beast is any organized group that we allow to dictate our beliefs to us. The 7 heads are those ruling over most of God's people from the son of David (Zedekiah) until we are once again ruled over by THE SON of DAVID. These are the 7 periods of reign in place of Christ, or in Greek antichrist. 1) Babylon 2.) Medio-Persia 3.) Greece 4.) Rome 5.) The rule of the church over the middle ages, Clay in the Bible is represents that molded by God; but here the clay is molded by the iron/the state, thus a "Church State" catholic Europe. 6.) The deadly wound/the toes of iron and clay, The crowns are now on 10 horns, not on the 6th head. (Our artists should not divide the horns over all 7 heads. They are during the deadly wound, or 6th head but then shares power with the 7th head). A period of independent nations instead of a great empire, some nations offering more freedom, others more oppressive. Thus the beast is and is not and is yet to come. The beast is still there but is not because it is the deadly wound to the 6th head, but is to come in that it will be healed into the 7th head/attempt for the toes to join together. A 7th head. Later Revelation tells us that the 7th head is different from the previous. The previous ruled through warfare, conquest and power. The 7th head is the 10 horns uniting together under economic cooperation and the merchants of the earth (the corporations) are in power; although the fallen woman is riding her. This beast is a counterfeit God the Father, While to the dragon our existential experience is everything; the beast does not really care about your existential experience. The beast will tell you what to believe and your job is to comply. The lamblike beast is a counterfeit God the Son. God the Son reveals God as our personal friend and brings us into relationship with God the Father. The false prophet tells those who are uncomfortable with how they need to go against something in their conscience to comply to the beast; the false prophet says "It will be to your existential advantage to not worry about your conscience but just comply to the rules of the beast." In Revelation 14 we find a God who is the ultimate truth, but who works with were we are and who we are in our growth and existential situations, but not stopping there, but leads us into deeper and deeper understanding of him who is the way the truth the life. catholic Europe is a good picture of what the beast does. The French Revolution is a good picture of what the dragon is like. The freedom of the American Revolution, especially with Williams/Jefferson/Madison (and adjusted by the age of Jackson) and the early Adventists joining from multi religious backgrounds trying to make a church that has room for all of them, is a picture of the three angels message. The dragon and the beast are fighting to take control of this country. While Satan prefers the ideas of the French Revolution, the demons found it exhausting. They had to develop temptations to each person's situation. They hate us too much to get to know us well enough to cater to us; it is so much easier when you have an organization controlling the masses and deceive many to only a couple of temptations; as they found they were able to do in the ancient religions, in catholic Europe, and in Nazi Germany. And the false prophet gets us to compromise our conscience by telling us that it is to our existential advantage to just go along with the system and to pressure others into complying. People have poked fun at our Seventh-day Adventist picture of persecution. Today it does not seem so strange. Look at all the violence. Attacks especially against those different. Can you imagine how this will be when the state allows it?

(N) Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Andrews University Seminary Studies: Trinity Debate Part 1 (sdanet.org) Andrews University Seminary Studies: Trinity Debate Part 2 (sdanet.org)

Where's the quote saying that Kellogg was disfellowshipped for believing in the "trinity?" Sabbath Herald October 8, 1903 (smack dab in the elmshaven years). What's that supposed to mean? Why is something EGW wrote "smack dab in the Elmshaven years" especially significant?

(N) 1 Thessalonians 4:17 ?☁️ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Jesus said, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3 And this is death: to deny the only true God and His only true Son.

Does religion make a good citizen? The following report provides interesting answers that differ some in various nations. https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/11/16/what-makes-someone-a-good-member-of-society/

Maybe interesting to you. When you can show that Kellogg was put out of the SDA church for believing in a triune God, we might have more to discuss. You continue to post falsehoods to cover your tracks. For the most part, nothing is resolved by jumping around, skating here, there everywhere. If my interest in the topic is piqued, I'll consult other sources. Reading "Living Temple" doesn't mean you understand it or are qualified to opine on it in an authoritative manner. From what I have observed, you often play fast and loose with what you read.

(N) 1 Thessalonians 4:16 ? For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Gustave, it's not the topic that interests me. It's the way you have exaggerated, misstated, and misrepresented the topic. If a person [you] wants to relate some history, it should be done in a truthful manner, which you have not done. As an example, I cite your remark that Kellogg was expelled from the SDA denomination because he believed in the "trinity" which was pantheism in the eyes of SDA at that time. That's simply false. It's not true. The way you read into passages prophetic/denominational authority when they are simply the opinions of various writers is hyperbole and exaggeration. It doesn't make your point, it damages your credibility. Trying to discuss something with you is like playing whack-a-mole. Swat down one falsehood and another one pops up. The articles on SDA net dealing with the trinity would be helpful to anyone actually interested in the history of doctrinal development among SDA. Yes there were issues among earlier SDA on the subject of the Godhead; however, those issues are largely irrelevant today. It indicates that Adventists are progressive in the sense that in some areas, there is a willingness to discard error and move into a better understanding of the Bible. I appreciate that you have brought to my attention some things of which I was unaware. I'm still not especially interested in those things. The time I spend trying to fact check your posts robs me of time in which I could be pursuing things that do interest me. I apologize for dragging you back into a discussion which has little redemptive value.

Gustave, We've been over this before, as I now recall. You read too much into the statements, giving them an authority they don't have. Much of what you post is free of context; consequently, the statements, as you display them are more or less not useful. "When Kellogg accepted the Trinity he destroyed the hominid body of Father God according to Ellen White, which, according to Adventism at the time, was Pantheism." There were definitely issues regarding the Godhead in the denomination. Not a problem for me, probably not for many others who are church members. I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. The developing views on the Godhead among SDA have been known for a long time. Some of the views they held were wrong, just as some of the early views on prophecy were/are wrong. Shouldn't be a shock to anyone. It hadn't been well sorted by 1919. There are still differences of opinion. Some of the current views are probably wrong. This is the official position of the SDA church today: 2. Trinity There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. God, who is love, is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Gen. 1:26; Deut. 6:4; Isa. 6:8; Matt. 28:19; John 3:16 2 Cor. 1:21, 22; 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2) There are individual remarks on the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost which you can read here. Adventist Archives | Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists Some of the remarks you make, I'm not sure if they reflect ignorance, falsehood, a personal agenda or what. Perhaps they reflect eternal truth. Digging around in the SDA doctrinal cemetery is interesting when the subject is right. This particular subject doesn't interest me that much. Trinity (sdanet.org) Why not just state your point, agenda, etc., and move on?

(N) 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

In the "Townhall" forum there is a "Christian Nationalism" thread! Check it out when you get a chance. It's not very long, but has a few comments that are pretty interesting!!

Very interesting topic. The link didn't work for me so don't know what it says there, However, in answer to the question, I don't think America was ever a "Christian nation", though if the Puritans would have been in control over more than their communities, and exerted their ideals over all of America it might have ended up as a "Christian nation" with government-controlled Christianity. at least after their concept of Christianity. Yet it is true that America was built on Protestant principles. In a large way, protestant principles shaped the culture. It is the loss of this culture that has many Christians worried. Christian Nationalism would like to see America as a Christian nation with more government and church together power and laws. Christianity Today describes it thus: The problem with that is that sooner or later the government has to decide who is, and who is not, part of that "Christian" nation, And that usually results in persecution. Remember back in history, when Constantine made peace with Christians, and later Christianity was made the religion of the empire? People rejoiced; persecution was supposedly ended. Christianity had won. Well neither was correct. Constantine wanted to unite his empire through Christianity, but very quickly learned that Christianity itself was not in unity. Almost immediately persecution was resumed, this time against groups like the Donatists and other Christian groups who didn't follow the state endorsed version of beliefs. It's a rather predictable result of religious nationalism.

Of course God already knows. The purpose for the Investigative Judgment is a reflective twofold. Too often we study salvation as in me and my personal salvation. God is working from the great controversy theme for the safety of the entire universe. Events leading up to what ever was here turning into complete chaos lead to the two sides of the great controversy being formed; at that time God moved from purely evidence to a little bit of proof as he hovered over the chaos and said "Let there be light" both starting an amazing week; but also announcing that history was moving in a way where they could learn more things about God, thus let there be light about God. This starts the history of what was to become the fallen race. Now, although the two sides of the great controversy were formed; they did not yet close their probation. They watched the events of history, especially the life of Jesus, then his passion. At the cross all but humans closed their probation one way or another. However, even though those who choose to be faithful to God learned enough to never ever want to leave him not matter what, and having total trust in him. God is infinite, finite beings are unable to grasp all the knowledge and greatness of God; but we will be learning more and more through out eternity. In the mid-1840s earth had reached a point in history where the ancient world was starting to be re-discovered. This was the opening of a time where we could study the Bible like never before. In ancient though events in heaven and earth reflect each other. This time of deeper investigation of the pages of scripture were met by it's heavenly counterpart of God reviewing with the angels and beings from other worlds the lives of those who claimed to follow him. They see those who claimed to accept him, such as Judas, and see what God tried to do for them and what went wrong. They also see those who claimed to accept him such as Abraham, and what went right. They review the difference Jesus made in the lives of sinners on earth. This gives them a clearer understanding of just how God saves us. And in the process this gives them a clearer picture of how God saved them. This lets there be more light, more of an understanding of God. We will have these mile stones all through out eternity. This is just one of these that corresponded with the events on earth in how say the Rosetta Stone gave the key to understanding strange ancient languages; Edward Robinson's first trip the the Bible lands being published and read, which opened the door to Biblical archaeology, including coming across ancient writings and the culture and increased knowledge of the Bible which can lead to increased knowledge of God; better knowledge of ancient words in more of their richness. And of course the increased spread of knowledge that started with and grew out of the telegraph. The investigative judgment is simply Earth's history reached the changing point described above; and ancient understandings of how events in heaven and earth reflect each other opens not only for humans the chance to get to know God better through what we are learning about the ancient world, but that the heavenly counterpart can get to know God better through learning about first, whether or not we really responded to his workings on our hearts, and thus how he saves us, and this gives them a deeper knowledge of their own salvation and awakens discoveries that lead to knowledge that gives them more love for Christ.