Leaderboard

My wife and I just finished getting over it, and again same scenario. On a cruise, holistic this time, and the person at the table beside us for each meal was sick. This version takes longer it seems, the original one I knew withing an hour I was getting it as my throat was on fire after came in contact with the carrier. This time the symptoms was a week later, and not much worse than the flu, but showed up on the Covid test and all the symptoms, throat on fire, peculiar cough, high fever, dizziness, etc..

So you are saying you can't now answer if God the Father could eternally cease to exist but at some point, after the end of days you will know the answer to this question. Do I have that right hobie?

Hobie: If his question is nonsensical, it was your post that generated it as it is a reasonable response to your post.

God cannot die. Seventh-day Adventists do not teach that God could die. Some think that SDAs teach that God could have died. That position is a misunderstanding of what SDAS teach in the same sense that Hobie misunderstands and twists Catholic teachings to say that they teach that Mary was a Goddess. Catholics do not teach such.

Could "The Father", for any reason, eternally cease to exist hobie? The longer you don't answer this question and curtsy the worse you are looking.

Does divinity die, there is the answer..

I'd like Hobi to quantify what percentage chance there would be that "The Father" eternally cease to exist (for whatever reason). Given the incredible length of his last several posts within that corpus he must have a position / belief on this question I put to him.

Gustave: I can not speak for Hobi. I will answer. As I previously said: God can not die. That applies to the Godhead, in whatever manner you might constitute it. When Christ was subject to death and lying in the grave, God was not dead. However you might constitute the Godhead, God was not dead while Christ lay in the grave.

My brother, Christ death as fully man did not change the fully God. Only the Holy Spirit can guide us to understanding and unveil the complete mystery of the GodHead. All I can do is leave you with Christs words.. John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Gustive, your raise an important issue for which I do not have answers to every aspect of it: * God cannot sin. * God cannot die. * Christ was both divine and human. * With Christ in the grave, God was not dead.

Hobie: Your posting is so massive that few are going to read it.

As for the questions on James White and others, here is from one of my friends online, Bob R., posts... 1. Ellen White was raised as a united Methodist - by definition - Trinitarian 2. The first list of SDA doctrinal statements comes from 1872 and did not say anything negative about the trinity - also made no statement that Trinitarians do not make to this very day. 3. The only doctrinal statements that the SDA denomination has ever published in our fundamental-beliefs statements - specifically addressing the Trinity, are of the form One God in THREE persons - the Triune Godhead. 4. James what made a statement in 1855 showing "The sort" of trinity position he opposed... In 1855 J. James White published an article in the Review and Herald entitled “Preach the Word.” In dealing with Paul’s statement in 2 Timothy 4:4 “they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables” he wrote, “Here we might mention the Trinity, which does away the personality of God and His Son Jesus Christ, ....” (-- so not even targetting a "one God" Deut 6:4 in "Three Persons" Matt 28:19 form of "Trinity") 5. 1876 James White made this statement “Seventh-day Adventists hold the divinity of Christ so nearly with the Trinitarians, that we apprehend no trial here.”38 And a year later he declared his belief in the equality of the Son with the Father and condemned any view as erroneous that “makes Christ inferior to the Father.”38 (2) 37 (The Day Star, Jan 21, 1846) 38 (Review And Herald, Oct 12, 1876) "The Holy Ghost, we [SDA pioneers] must ever remember, is more than a Divine Influence. He is a Divine Person. He is the CO-EQUAL of the Father and the Son." ---The Present Truth (England), January 7, 1897, Vol. 13, No.1, pg. 8 "The crowning glory of Christ´s [Jesus'] attributes is His holiness. The angels bow before *Him [Jesus] in adoration, exclaiming, "Holy, holy, holy, Lord *GOD ALMIGHTY." Revelation 4:8. He is declared to be glorious in His holiness. Study the character of God. By beholding Christ, by seeking Him in faith and prayer, you may become like Him.“ ---E.G. White, CT 402.2 “... in the course of the lessons as opportunity occurs you will impress upon the children the relation in which they stand to God the Father as their Creator; to GOD THE SON as their Redeemer; and to God the Holy Ghost as their Sanctifier." ---E.J. Waggoner, The Present Truth (pioneering SDA periodical), Feb. 15, 1894, pg. 101 “God the Father speaks to GOD THE SON , and says, “Thy throne, Oh God,”. And further the Father says to the Son, “Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.” And when he brought him into the world, he said, “Let all the angels of God worship him.” This is he who died for us…the most excellent Saviour of sinners, “Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6." --- Signs of the Times May 28, 1885, pg. 326 "Paganism, popery [the Papacy], and infidelity fail entirely to either rightly know or truly represent the ever-living God. It is left for pure Protestantism to proclaim to the world the true God consisting of THREE PERSONS but of one spirit and aim" ---The Signs of the Times, Vol. 26, No. 24, June 12, 1911; p. 371.372 “There are THREE BEINGS in the Godhead: God, the Father; Jesus Christ, the Word; and the Holy Spirit. "These three are one." …Canst thou by searching find out God?" ---Review and Herald, Vol. 87; December 15, 1910; No. 50; p. 8 "God is worshipped because He is Creator; and God means the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; for all are mentioned as having part in creation ." ---The Present Truth (SDA periodical), Vol. 29, No. 48. Nov. 27, 1913, p. 757 "We art children of a Father with "all comfort" in his holding; Jesus is our "Elder Brother" and his blood for us he gave; While the Holy Ghost, "the Comforter," each heart by truth is molding. So the great, TRIUNE JEHOVAH is omnipotent to save; he Is building mansions" for us... as children, we obey him. And the "image" and the 'likeness" lost, by grace shall be restored" ----Signs of the Times, January 6, 1904, Vol. 30 (No. 1), pg. 1 "…when Jesus declared Himself to the Jews to be I AM, He revealed Himself as THE Jehovah of the Old Testament, the God of Abraham manifested in human flesh.... the fact that the Jesus of the New Testament is THE Jehovah of the Old Testament must not be understood as eliminating the Father, or as a denial of the Godhead---Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Since the finite cannot comprehend the infinite, it were vain to attempt an analysis of the Godhead... Believe it we must, but explain it, or even fully comprehend it, we cannot; and until we can, we should tread reverently as we approach the subject of the being and nature of the TRIUNE God. This identification of Jesus of Nazareth with Jehovah of the Old Testament opens up a fertile field of study and encouragement....When we are tempted to doubt the power of Jesus to save us from sin and from sinning, we may call to mind that it was as Jehovah that He delivered His people from the bondage of Egypt and brought them into the Promised Land.” ---W.W. Prescott (SDA pioneer), The Saviour of the World, pg. 17

Now the mystery of the GodHead is at least to me, still too much to fully grasp till we get to heaven and study it before our Lord and Saviour. How are they distinct yet they are One, we get this which gives us a hint.. Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

We read that the world was made by him, "and without him was not anything made that was made." If Christ made all things, he existed before all things, its laid out so clear that no one needs to be left in doubt. Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense and was from all eternity. Now if you look, everywhere where the Bible refers to The Son in the familiar name 'Jesus', it uses the Greek word "Iesous" (#2424). and we see Strong's definition: 2424 Ihsouv Iesous ee-ay-sooce' of Hebrew origin 03091 ewvy; TDNT-3:284,360; n pr m AV-Jesus 972, Jesus (Joshua) 2, Jesus (Justus) 1; 975 Jesus="Jehovah is salvation" 1) Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate The name Jesus means Jehovah or self-Existent Eternal One, and scripture tells us... Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the LORD (Jehovah) thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. Isaiah 43:11. I, even I, am the LORD (Jehovah); and beside me there is no saviour. If the Son of God were NOT Jehovah the self-Existent, Eternal One he would not be the Saviour of the world. Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD (Jehovah): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD (Jehovah), the Holy One in Israel. But if Christ is the Lord God Jehovah, it all comes together... John 17:4-5 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Mark 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. Luke 4:34 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; Acts 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

Now, in the letter to the Colossians, Paul gives a description of Jesus which explains Christ's relationship to God the Father and to creation. Let's look at the text... Colossians 1:15-21 King James Version (KJV) 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled Christ's relationship to His Father begins with the phrase "the image of the invisible God." The word 'image,' meaning copy or likeness, expresses Christ's deity. This word involves more than a resemblance, more than a representation. He is God! Although He took on human form, He has the express nature of the Father... Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: The "Word" of John 1:1 is a divine Person, not a theoretical abstraction. In the incarnation, the invisible God became visible in Christ; deity was clothed with humanity. Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. Mark 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. All that God is, Christ is. The Bible shows us that Jesus is Lord of Creation. The description 'firstborn' speaks of Christ's preexistence. You can see that Jesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word "firstborn" (Greek word "prototokos") signifies priority. In the culture of the ancient times, the first-born was not necessarily the oldest child, as it referred not to birth order but to rank. The first-born possessed the inheritance and leadership. Therefore, the phrase ' the firstborn of every creature', expresses Christ's sovereignty over creation. We also see the phrase recognizes Him as the Messiah, we see in these verses.. Psalm 89:27 Also I will make him [Christ] my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Six times the Lord Jesus is declared to be the first-born of God (see Colossians 1:15, 18; Hebrews 1:6; 12:23; Revelation 1:5). These passages declare the preexistence, the sovereignty, and the redemption that Christ offers.Thus, the phrase "first-born of all creation" proclaims Christ's preeminence. Now lets look at the point made that Jesus is never called the 'Almighty' in the entire bible. Let us now turn to Revelation 1:8: Revelation 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says Jehovah God, the One who is and who was, and who is coming, the Almighty. Clearly, he who is Alpha and Omega, and who is also 'the Almighty' is 'Jehovah God' himself. Now lets look further in the Chapter: Revelation 1:12-13 King James Version (KJV) 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. John sees one 'like unto a son of man.' Now notice the context from here on, from verses 14 through 16 he is describing how this 'son of man' looked. Now this same son of man says in verses 17 and 18: Revelation 1:17-18 King James Version (KJV) 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. We notice, that the 'son of man' is the same person who, according to verse 17 and 18, is the 'First and the Last' and who also 'became dead.' Who else is this but Jesus Christ, who is constantly referred to through scripture as the 'son of man' and who 'became dead.' You have to say that the one speaking in verses 17 and 18 is Jesus, because you do not believe God can die. Now if it is true that this is Jesus, how is it that he is also called the First and the Last, which is the same as the Alpha and the Omega? And since God is the one claiming to be the 'Alpha and Omega' in verse 8, Jesus Christ, who also claims this title in verses 17 and 18, must therefore be the same one who spoke in verse 8. Now this poses a problem because he who spoke in verse 8 said that he is the 'Almighty.' There is another reason to believe that the one speaking in verse 8 is the same person who speaks in verses 17 and 18. Verse 8 says that Jehovah God is the one 'who is coming.' There is another verse which also shows that God is the one coming found in Revelation 22: Revelation 22:6-7 King James Version (KJV) 6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. Take note that it is 'Lord [Jehovah] God' who is coming 'quickly.' Now read verse 12 and 13: Revelation 22:12-13 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. We see that God says that he is coming quickly, and also that he is Alpha and Omega. Now read the rest of the chapter, and note carefully verse 20, which reads: Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. We now find, that he who we have seen is coming quickly and claiming to be the 'Alpha and Omega' is none other then Jesus Christ. Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

The mystery of the GodHead is something we will have to study in the eons of eternity, but lets see what Gods Word gives us. Sorry if I repeat myself or punctuation as I grabbing from raw notes or prior postings. Jehovah is the Hebrew name for God in the Old Testament. He is given as the Creator of the universe and everything in it. The name Yahweh comes from the Hebrew word for "I am," which was translated as 'Jehovah.' Whenever the name 'LORD' is printed in small caps in the Bible, it means 'YAHWEH'. For ancient Jews, the name 'YAHWEH' was so sacred that they would not speak it nor would they write it in full, but gave it as 'YHWH'. Now the scriptures is very clear that Jesus Christ is not just our Savior, but is also the Creator of the universe, Jehovah 'YAHWEH' of the Old Testament. Notice carefully: All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that has been made. John 1:3 He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not. John 1:10 God, who created all things by Jesus Christ. Ephesians 3:9 For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16 Thus Jesus Christ is our Creator. The One who created, rested. Thus the Sabbath commandment, when correctly understood in the light of both the Old and New Testaments, points to Jesus Christ Now some may say but God the great Jehovah created the earth in the beginning, but here is were the mystery of the GodHead has to be understood in order to understand who Jesus was. Jesus is the Jehovah of ALL the Bible. He is the LORD Jehovah that walked in the cool of the day in Eden. Jesus was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus was Jehovah God who gave the Ten Commandments. Jesus was Jehovah God who was in the pillar of fire by night and cloud by day. Jesus was Jehovah God who appeared to Moses in the fiery bush and declared I am that I am. What Jesus claims about Himself - John 8:48-59 48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? 49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. 50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. 52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? 54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. With solemn dignity Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Silence fell upon the vast assembly. The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by Jesus. Lets look at this story of Moses and the burning bush in Exodus... Exodus 3:14-15.. 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. Now scripture shows us even more clearly who Christ is, if we just let the Holy Spirit guide us into truth. THE FIRST AND THE LAST Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Isaiah 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Now lets look at who is the Savior: Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD ; and beside me there is no saviour. Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. 1Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; 2Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Jesus is truly the Creator, Jehovah 'YAHWEH', the First and the Last, our Savior and Lord of the Sabbath. It is His day of worship from Creation, the day of rest, made for man not man for the Sabbath.. Genesis 2:1-2 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. 2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done. The Sabbath was for all mankind which the Creator gave us. Our Lord and Saviour shows us.

Now we begin to grasp the mystery of the GodHead and what Ellen White gives us in her writings. The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by Him as His right. This was no robbery of God. [The Review and Herald, April 5, 1906, p. 8.] In speaking of His pre-existence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. He to whose voice the Jews were then listening had been with God as one brought up with Him.[The Signs of the Times, August 29, 1900.] Here Christ shows them that, although they might reckon His life to be less than fifty years, yet His divine life could not be reckoned by human computation. The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures.[The Signs of the Times, May 3, 1899.] From all eternity Christ was united with the Father, and when He took upon Himself human nature, He was still one with God.[The Signs of the Times, August 2, 1905, p. 10.] When Christ passed within the heavenly gates, He was enthroned amidst the adoration of the angels. As soon as this ceremony was completed, the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in rich currents, and Christ was indeed glorified, even with the glory which He had with the Father from all eternity. [The Acts of the Apostles, 38, 39.] But while God's Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding His preexistence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with His Father. From everlasting He was the Mediator of the covenant, the One in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted Him, were to be blessed. 'The Word was with God, and the Word was God.' Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God.[The Review and Herald, April 5, 1906.] A human being lives, but his is a given life, a life that will be quenched. What is your life? It is even vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. But Christ's life is not a vapor; it is never-ending, a life existing before the worlds were made.[The Signs of the Times, June 17, 1897, p. 5.] From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was 'the image of God,' the image of His greatness and majesty, 'the outshining of His glory.' [The Desire of Ages, 19.] He was one with the Father before the angels were created.[The Spirit of Prophecy 1:17.] Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.[The Review and Herald, April 5, 1906, p. 8.] The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity. Micah 5:2, margin.[The Desire of Ages, 469, 470.] In it [God's Word] we may learn what our redemption has cost Him who from the beginning was equal with the Father.[Counsels to Parents, Teachers, and Students, 13.]

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Just as the prophecy in scripture fortold that from the house of David he would come of a virgin birth...... Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Here it is clear that Christ is God, but immediately we are posed with a question that must be answered. Here is where many stumble. Did the Father create or "procreate" another "God?" If He did, This would mean it would be a sin to worship Jesus, because it would violate the first commandment! ';Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.' Isaiah 43:10 The first commandment says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." On two different occasions John was inclined to worship an angel. He was told by the angel, "See thou do it not: I am a fellow servant, and of they brethren that have the testimony of Jesus." (Revelation 19:10) Worship of a creature was clearly prohibited in the Bible. Worship of the Creator was another matter and we see it time and time again that Jesus accepted worship and was worthy to be worshipped. Of the Canaanite woman it was said, "Then came she and worshipped Him..." (Matthew 15:25). When Thomas recognized Him as the risen Christ he said, "My Lord and my God." (John 20:28), and the four and twenty elders give worship to the Creator, "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." Now in the resurrection the Bible tells us that men that are saved are equal to angels. 'Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.'(Luke 20:36 ) Jesus was not equal to the angels He was equal to God, scripture repeatedly shows us this. ' Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:'(Php 2:6) If we look further to the context in Philippians 2:5-8, we understand clearly what Paul is saying: Talking of Jesus Christ, . . .who being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Clearly, Paul shows that he believes that Jesus had existed as a divine Being before His birth, and that He volunteered to divest Himself of much of His glory, power, and prerogatives to become a lowly human being and to die to redeem humanity from its sins. Then we see the following in Hebrews which shows of Christ, 'angels of God worship him' and God says to the Son or Christ, 'Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever', so scripture lays out the path that the Holy Ghost can guide us into understanding. 'Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.'(Heb 1:4-8 AV). So you have to look at this issue of worship first, as God alone is entitled to supreme reverence and worship and man is forbidden to give to any other object the first place in his affections or his service or worship. So to worship any other is a sin, but then we have the mystery of the Godhead as Christ was not brought into existence, rather He always existed as one with the Father. We see Christ as the Creator, as Jehovah, as the Great I AM, and appeared in different ways more than fifty times in the Old Testament before coming as flesh in the New Testament. For any creature to claim the right to be worshipped is blaspheme. In fact the Jews falsely accused Jesus of this. 'The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.'(John 10:33 ) Notice these scriptures that show Jesus was worshipped. Matthew 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh. Matthew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. Matthew 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live. Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. Matthew 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. Mark 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, Luke 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: John 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then we have Jesus Himself showing us how He existed prior to the Incarnation and His role, it was not hidden, it is right there in the Bible. Speaking to the Jews, Jesus told them: John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see MY day: and he saw it, and was glad. The Jews were absolutely amazed at what Jesus sad, because Jesus was only in His early thirties, they could not ponder how He possibly have been alive in Abraham's day, so they reacted. John 8:57-58 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. The Jews understood what was being declared, Jesus equating Himself with the eternal 'I AM.' Verse 59 says, 'Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him' You also have these verses.... John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus was directly and actively involved in the creation of man. Indeed you find in Genesis, God said... 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness' (Genesis 1:26) Then there is a prediction of Christ's redemptive work on the cross in Genesis 3:15 'And I will put enmity between you (the serpent) and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise you on the head, and you shall bruise Him on the heel.' Christ was there at the beginning, from eternity, He is the Almighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, the Great I Am, Jehovah God...

Well, now we are getting to the answer of the mystery of the GodHead that Isaiah 9:6 shows us. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. So how can that be, well we begin to grasp the understanding of the mystery of the GodHead. How can we understand this, the mystery of the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ, come in the flesh, and how a mere child, born like other children, could also be "The everlasting Father." 1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. The pre-existence of Christ or personal existence of Christ before his conception is shown in the Bible, but the Holy Ghost has to guide us. For some reason, this concept of Christ pre-incarnate or the pre-existence of Christ is very controversial, as people somewhat get confused with the "Title" which refers to Jesus or how He is shown such as the "First and the Last", the "Alpha and Omega" the "Holy One", the "Angel of the Lord". Now we must be clear, Jesus is NOT a created Angel. He is fully Man, fully God, the Messiah, the Christ, and Lord and Saviour. Jesus is Eternal. Jesus was never created. Jesus is Eternal as the Father and Holy Spirit are Eternal. Jesus has always been and always will be and scripture shows existed before He became the earthly child of Mary. Let us begin with the birth of Christ and we see in Matthew one of the titles, 'God with us'. Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Just as the prophecy in scripture fortold that from the house of David he would come of a virgin birth...... Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Sweptember 25, 2025 Today Adventist today posted on their website an article that I wrote on David's death. you may access it at: https://atoday.org/the-day-my-son-took-his-own-life/